Midland Railway in EM gauge

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said:

 

This might get @AY Mod Andy's attention quicker, Derek.

 

It's part of a problem caused by advertising placement. There's an Advertising topic in the Forum Help section where it's covered.

 

I'm trying to get it changed.

[MarkC]

9 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Not your fault at all Derek. There's a very good reason why Jidenco kit's were, and still are, known as S***denco. The situation didn't improve in the slightest when it became Falcon Brass. Ricey got it wrong too as the proper term for those kits is preformed scrap!! They are without any doubt the worst kits ever produced for British outline locos. I have nothing but admiration of the highest order for anyone who can actually build a half decent model from one of those monstrosities. A perfect example of "never mind the quality feel the width" if ever there was one! I've never met a modeller who has anything nice to say about those kits.

Regards Lez.     

Here's one

 

I successfully built a Kirtley 0-4-4T some 20 years ago, & many exhibitions later it's still going strong. What let it down was my 'orrible paint job. One day I'll repaint her. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it actually went together, having heard the horror stories.

 

I also built a MR Steam Railmotor & trailer at the same time. Well, the bodies were nice, & do capture the character of the machine. The power bogie, though, was not so good, & as a consequence it's stopped the job as I just couldn't get it to work, primarily because the valve gear etches were too fine to stand up to running. However, I now have one of John Redrup's excellent kits for the power bogie, so it'll be completed in due course.

 

I must have been lucky, I guess...

 

Worst kits, to me, were Q kits. I did build a Co-Bo, but the castings had more holes in them than a pair of lace knickers - an awful lot of time was spent filling & shaping. As for the supplied motors - I got it going as per design...for about 30 seconds! A new motor bogie arrangement is, again, on the 'to do' list...

[Regularity]

13 hours ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

As Ian Rice said, “Jidenco kits are scratch builders aids”

Only in so far as by realising that you have to re-make some of the parts, you may as well have made all of them…

[lezz01]

The only Falcon/Jidenco kit I tried to build apart from the Kirtley DF goods was also the MR steam railmotor which had the same result as MarkC's. The body was OK-ish but the motion was basically not up to the job.

I too have LRMs version on my wish list although it's not a priority as I can't justify for Tewkesbury shed but maybe for the new home layout.

Regards Lez.   

[DayReturn]

Some Jidenco/Falcon kits were/are good, some are dire.  The DF, 700-class Kirtley 0-6-0 is clearly in the latter, though not in all aspects, but the 156-class and 800-class 2-4-0s are well up to the mark.  Jidenco's reputation carries in its baggage a lot of consequent stories whose authenticity I cannot vouch for.  On the plus side, I believe that Tony Sheffield (I think of S4 North London Group) stated that the tooling/etch-drafting of these 2-4-0s was carried out by Mike Peascod, whereas I have read that other drafting was done by an employee of Jidenco's core, non-model-making, business with no subject matter knowledge.  I assume that the latter case explains how adjacent parts often make no allowance for joint widths and overlaps for example, or as in our Kirtley 0-6-0, the curves in the running plate.  They are also early kits, so are very likely among the examples that Iain Rice blew klaxons at in his numerous writings, and pre-date the recognition of expertise and cunning design features in say, Malcolm Mitchell's work or Alistair Wright's carriages.  And even the simple wagon kits were intended for low-spec results - fold-up, rigid axle guards, 2-dimensional fold up brake gear in the same plane as the axle-guards.  Perfectly acceptable for most 1960s and 1970s 00 gauge models, even moderately serious ones.

 

I wonder if there is any collective benefit in trying to review the design histories of the wealth of brass and similar kits so as to record what features and foibles the original versions had, and then what successive inheritors of the toolings have done.  Some kit series have passed through several hands, and some later owners have made improvements, e.g. Wills and GEM chassis, others have made retrograde changes e.g. poorer quality castings when moulds have not been renewed.  Forums on here and elsewhere bemoan the unreliability of suppliers that have taken on old ranges, but it's a difficult position - the market is small and specific and demanding, each medium used in a kit requires specialist industrial tools or purchases of sufficient volume from specialist component suppliers, e.g. brass castings, and then stocks to be maintained and marketed.  The people willing to take on old ranges do so for the benefit of the rest of us, to prevent the work being lost, and all too often bite off far more than they can chew, or their circumstances change, and just the loss or damage of a single element can make the whole process fail.  As we embrace newer technologies that gives us more options, for sure, but it also makes kit creation even more problematic if we want to use the best medium for the piece - laser cutting, 3D printing and resin casting all have a place, but only alongside metal etching, turning, milling, metal casting and injection moulding.  I'm sure there's a strong case for the pooling of different expertise and capability.

 

[MR Chuffer]

42 minutes ago, DayReturn said:

I wonder if there is any collective benefit in trying to review the design histories of the wealth of brass and similar kits

I think so, I suspect with my early excursions into the market to get key locos, I got some at  reasonable prices, which I now suspect might be duffers, e.g. Jidenco MR 3130 2F 0-6-0...?

[DayReturn]

7 hours ago, MR Chuffer said:

I think so, I suspect with my early excursions into the market to get key locos, I got some at  reasonable prices, which I now suspect might be duffers, e.g. Jidenco MR 3130 2F 0-6-0...?

Like this one?  (not my work btw.)

[Mrkirtley800]

At last, after eleven weeks of enforced sitting around, I was able to go into the railway room (AKA. The garage), and continue where I left off before my incident with the chair.

Since the weather warmed up in March, I had been running some trains.  It was then I found a fault with inter baseboard connections on the last scenic board.  So, because I am not, now, able to lift the boards, I waited for my eldest son to pay a visit.  He lifted a couple of boards down for me to work on, and am now waiting for a return visit to put them back.

Meanwhile,  I spent my time running and testing my stock of engines, using just the station limits.  I was pleasantly surprised they all performed well, after a long time in their boxes.

I did do a bit of passenger operation using the shortened layout.

Here is the layout in early July, just before my enforced layoff.

 

 

 

The local, all stations, passenger from  Skipton to Kirkby  Malham was hauled by a Kirtley designed 0-4-4 well tank.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mrkirtley800

[Andrew P]

Good to see your back at the Controls Derek, all the best.

[DayReturn]

Lovely stuff.  I spy some Tri-ang too - aside from the box car that we know about ^^, would that Lanky van be a Rovex Insulfish?  No shame if it is!

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, DayReturn said:

would that Lanky van be a Rovex Insulfish?  No shame if it is!

 

I'm not entirely sure that a L&Y van counts as any sort of silk purse but if it did start out as a sow's ear it hardly shows - but it might be the Geen whitemetal kit.

[MR Chuffer]

12 hours ago, DayReturn said:

Like this one?

So there is hope then for this one.

[Rowsley17D]

Nice photos of the Kirtley 0-4-4T, Derek. I'm building one but having to wait for a High Level gearbox before it can be finished. Mine will be in black though.

[DayReturn]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm not entirely sure that a L&Y van counts as any sort of silk purse but if it did start out as a sow's ear it hardly shows - but it might be the Geen whitemetal kit.

[Mrkirtley800]

Hello D, no, the L & Y van is white metal, probably bought as a kit from David Gean, many, many moons ago.

However, the Hull and Barnsley van is a proprietary model, either Hornby or Triang.  I have two of them, again pretty old.  I discarded the chassis in favour of a hand built one

The three Spencer opens are part of a group of six, and are Lima.  Again, I threw the chassis away and built them up with scale wheels.  I also tried to reduce the very bright colour of the wagons.

I rather think they are a bit too modern for 1908, but they are relevant to the area I am trying to portray.  If I had many more years,I would scratch build a train of them more in keeping with the time.

Derek

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Mrkirtley800

[DayReturn]

11 hours ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

However, the Hull and Barnsley van is a proprietary model, either Hornby or Triang.  I have two of them, again pretty old.  I discarded the chassis in favour of a hand built one

 

Wonderful - it's the Hornby Weetabix van, my son had one in the inevitable train-set I bought him 27 years ago!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114952568738

 

[Mrkirtley800]

Hello Rowsley 17D, I lusted after one of these 0-4-4s ever since I was at school.  I bought a Model Railway News in 1953 and on the front was a layout by Frank Roomes called Lutton, and there in the foreground a Midland 0-4-4 well tank.  It wasn’t until I was married with a house of my own that I bought a drawing of one of these locos by JAN Maskeline, editor of MRN.

Unfortunately Maskeline made some mistakes in the drawing, which I, in my ignorance, knew nothing about.

  I started scratch building my loco in 1966.  Used Romford wheels and a Triang XT 60 motor.  It was later painted by Larry Goddard and ran many miles until the motor gave up.  By then, compensation and Mashima motors were available, so I rebuilt the engine using Gibson wheels, compensation and a 1024 motor, no gearbox though, perhaps that will come on its next rebuilding, whenever that might be.

Maskeline did a large number of drawings, all to fit on a size of paper.  The 0-4-4 was scaled at 10 mm/ foot, so was easy to convert

 The 2-4-0 800 class drawing worked out at something like 8.23 mm/foot, so out came the slide rule, no calculators then.

I built a well tank and 800 class in 00 for Larry.  He eventually sold them on.

I wonder where they are now?

Derek

Edited September 26, 2021 by Mrkirtley800

[DayReturn]

1 hour ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

The 2-4-0 800 class drawing worked out at something like 8.23 mm/foot, so out came the slide rule, no calculators then.

I still use my slide rule for exactly that purpose.  Having set the ratio up, it’s much quicker than a calculator or spreadsheet, though I usually log all the dimensions I need in a spreadsheet and e.g. sum the measurements in each dimension as a cross check.  

[Rowsley17D]

Thanks, Derek. My Kirtley 0-4-4WT is an old Jidenco Models kit I bought from WM Collectibles. The only thing missing was the boiler-mounted sand box which I made from bits of plastic. London Road Models does the kit now. As I said, it just needs a gearbox. I bought Markits' outside cranks for it but I think these will foul my station platforms, so I will have to use the ones in the kit.

[Mrkirtley800]

Hello Rowsley,  what is the type of chimneyin your kit.  In my period, many of the old Midland engines sported the lovely Johnson chimney.

K’s did a nice one in cast white metal, and many years ago I bought a good stock, which now, sadly, are all gone.

There are some very nice cast or turned brass which are advertised as the Johnson type, but they are more like the parallel chimneys of Deeley and Fowler, certainly not got the curves of Johnson’s design.

Derek

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Mrkirtley800

[Rowsley17D]

Mine has had a Deeley make-over, Derek.

 

 

[Mrkirtley800]

 Looks very nice indeed

[lezz01]

It's still a hansom looking beast despite the Deeley makeover. 

Regards Lez.

[Compound2632]

@Rowsley17D, just one little point of detail, noticed at a second look. Are those microstrip (?) spring hangers just dummies, pending metal? If so, you're probably onto this but they should be double - front and back of the spring. Forgive me. I'm no-where near succeeding in making anything like that.

[DayReturn]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

@Rowsley17D, just one little point of detail, noticed at a second look. Are those microstrip (?) spring hangers just dummies, pending metal? If so, you're probably onto this but they should be double - front and back of the spring. Forgive me. I'm no-where near succeeding in making anything like that.

I don't think I've seen the Jidenco frets for the Kirtley 0-4-4T but based on the Kirtley 2-4-0s and the 0-6-0, you may find some mysterious little strips of brass probably unnumbered and probably with holes or half-etched "rivets" etched in the ends for bolt heads,  16 in total, to make up these spring stays.  I won't comment on how to actually fit them if you find them!  The George Norton/LRM version has them lollypop shaped and has little half-etch grooves in the running plate to located them.