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Mrkirtley800

Midland Railway in EM gauge

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I have been told that Stroudley was colour blind, hence the name of ‘improved engine green’ for yellow locos.

Seems plausible

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It does blend in rather well with the Midland structure colours and the overall palette of the picture!

 

I have wondered whether the M&GN Gorse Green livery was S.W. Johnson's tribute to Stroudley - they, along with Dugald Drummond, were colleagues on the North British Railway in the impoverished 1860s. I imagine trying to keep things going there forged youthful bonds that lasted a lifetime. Johnson's son James (briefly Loco Superintendent of the GNoSR) married Drummond's daughter Christine.

 

I find facts like that fascinating. For a time I looked into our family history. That also was fascinating especially the less than savoury bits. It took too much time from my model railway activities, so have not done any for years.

Derek

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I have been told that Stroudley was colour blind, hence the name of ‘improved engine green’ for yellow locos.

Seems plausible

the other explanation was that it was an improvement on the green that preceded it.
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I find facts like that fascinating. For a time I looked into our family history. That also was fascinating especially the less than savoury bits. It took too much time from my model railway activities, so have not done any for years.

Derek

 

James and Christine named their third son Dugald Samuel Waite Johnson.

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Now, why do you think that a Highland Railway Jones Goods engine in the short lived Stroudley livery of 1894, should be pulling a Bradford (Market Street) to Kirkby Malham stopper in 1908, right in the heart of Midland territory?

 

 

Derek

Because of Rule #1, obviously!

 

I wish you a healthy and happy 2019 Derek, its always good to drop by your thread and drool at your wonderful models.

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Thank you for that Martin. Really there is not much left at Kirkby Malham that I haven’t shown, and any more photos will be of stuff seen before. I am, however, building a loco from scratch, as a way of a change. It is one of the 1808 class, a Johnson designed slim boilered 4-4-0 of the mid 1880 vintage.

I don’t really need another small passenger engine, the Kirkby Malham timetable is not so intense, but I enjoy a bit of loco building although with my arthritis playing up, I am finding this sort of job much slower than it used to be. I keep telling the young folks round about here, not to grow old. All you get for it is a bus pass, and I never use mine.

Derek

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...... I am, however, building a loco from scratch, as a way of a change. It is one of the 1808 class, a Johnson designed slim boilered 4-4-0 of the mid 1880 vintage.

I have one of the LRM kits for this loco in the to do pile. Would you consider posting progress of your scratch build? I would be very interested in the process.

 

Regards

 

Tim

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I have one of the LRM kits for this loco in the to do pile. Would you consider posting progress of your scratch build? I would be very interested in the process.

 

Regards

 

Tim

I was going to do exactly that Tim, but I pressed on with the cutting out of parts and forgot to take photos. The drawing I have is not to 4mm scale, so I scanned it and printed out slightly enlarged so that the well known dimensions such as the coupled wheelbase (8’6”) came out at 34mm on the drawing.

The mistake I made was to use an original print out which was not to 4mm scale. I got on quite well until something did not seem quite right, and on checking found that the bits I had made were wrong, double doh!! I must be losing it. So I have had to redo it. Measure twice and cut once is not a bad principle.

But, it is a pretty simple engine to build with no real features to cause sleepless nights.

At the moment however, it is a bit cold in my railway room, so I am staying in the warm parts of the house.

When I get going again, I will take some pics to try and show the construction.

Derek

Edited by Mrkirtley800

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Hi Derek.

I have a drawing for both the as built and the H boiler rebuilds if you need them mate. They are in the Essery and Jenkinson Midland Locomotives Vol 2 and seem to be correct for 4 mm scale. You must surely have a copy, if not let me know and I'll sort it for you.

Regards Lez.

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Hi Derek.

I have a drawing for both the as built and the H boiler rebuilds if you need them mate. They are in the Essery and Jenkinson Midland Locomotives Vol 2 and seem to be correct for 4 mm scale. You must surely have a copy, if not let me know and I'll sort it for you.

Regards Lez.

Thanks for that Lez, the drawing I am using is from that book. The drawing is not quite 4m I wonder if the discrepancy arose when the publishers wanted it on a page with a border, so squeezed the drawing slightly. Anyway, I only needed a slight increase in print size to bring the drawing to 4mm, that is giving the coupled wheelbase 34mm.

Derek

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I'm not one for layouts or owning fleet of locos etc, but skipping through this thread doesn't half make it seem attractive. An epic layout in terms of the quality of everything on it - all of it is beautiful!

 

I have nothing else to contribute but I had to say something.

 

Regards, David.

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Thank you for that Martin. Really there is not much left at Kirkby Malham that I haven’t shown, and any more photos will be of stuff seen before. I am, however, building a loco from scratch, as a way of a change. It is one of the 1808 class, a Johnson designed slim boilered 4-4-0 of the mid 1880 vintage.

I don’t really need another small passenger engine, the Kirkby Malham timetable is not so intense, but I enjoy a bit of loco building although with my arthritis playing up, I am finding this sort of job much slower than it used to be. I keep telling the young folks round about here, not to grow old. All you get for it is a bus pass, and I never use mine.

Derek

 

But an 1808 Class engine is generally appropriate for the area, if not for the Kirkby Malham branch, with several going new to Hellifield - although principally for working the Midland trains from Liverpool and Manchester. Practically L&Y engines!

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I wonder how that happened Derek. The coupled wheelbase on the drawing in the book is exactly 34 mm. I measured them with both a plastic ruler and a 6" and 12" steel rule Are you using a scanned drawing or a photocopy? If the latter then that's probably where the error snuck in. You should always use a scan and not a photocopy as they have a tendency to shrink a bit. I know this from experience as I had the same problem but with a building not a loco.

Regards Lez.  

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Yes, you are right Lez. I guess the slight shrinkage took place in my copying the drawing, however, I am now using the proper sized drawing, so construction can go ahead as planned.

Derek

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Photocopier always used to be set to go slightly larger to avoid a dark edge to the copy. However these days the are more often set for an exact copy. Not sure why it shold shrink something.

 

Don

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I was told never ever take dimensions from a drawing. Always rely on stated measurements which ought to be marked on a drawing.

Presumably in this case no dimensions are given.

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Most model railway drawings have only a few stated dimensions, and even these may not be 100% useful (e.g. boiler diameter is a maximum over the actual boiler, not the jacket enclosing the cladding).

 

But I always check against stated figures, and in both dimensions. Paper has a “grain” and can expand/contract in one dimension more than the other.

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Photocopies shrink because of the method of fixing the the toner. The medium is carbon powder which is fixed with heat and that's the cause of the shrinkage and why the paper comes out hot. If you use an all in one scanner/ printer/ copier it isn't really a photocopier its an inkjet or a laser printer depending on how much money you spend and while it still produces warm paper the amount of heat produced is a lot less than a photocopier. It isn't really copying it's scanning and printing without using a 3rd party computer just it's on board system which is a small computer in its own right but with very limited function  The one you really have to watch out for is a Fax that copies as well as these use the same technology as the old style photocopiers. They still have a big toner cartridge with a heating strip that runs the full length of the cartridge which is the same as the width as an A4 sheet of paper. The shrinkage can be as much as 2% to 5%.

I've spent much of my post army working life battling with photocopiers/printers/scanners and was in at the beginning of personal computers and have built far more computers from components than I have brought ready built. It's been a lot of nerdy fun to be honest and I've saved literally thousands of pounds. I'm still using a second generation duel core PC although there is very little left of the original, as components have failed they have been replaced with higher spec components but it still has the same processor and it still does everything I ask of it.

Regards Lez.       

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I'm still using a second generation duel core PC although there is very little left of the original, as components have failed they have been replaced with higher spec components but it still has the same processor and it still does everything I ask of it.     

 

Heartwarming to know that Grandpa's axe is alive and well in the digital age!

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I always refer to my PC as the janitors broom. It's had 20 new handles and 15 heads but it's still the same broom.

In the inventory it says Broom: 1. Sweeping for the use of.  :jester:

It will be retired this year though as it's getting harder to find components that will work in it.

Regards Lez.

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I... ...have built far more computers from components than I have brought ready built.

 

Kudos to you. My first job, 30+ years ago now, involved me in that sort of thing amongst other activities. I saw how they were bringing more and more onto individual processor chips and motherboards, so gave that up as soon as I could. (I am going back to 8086, 80286 days here!)

That said, with good programming, even a 286 can do an astonishing range of things.

I opted to save money by buying a reasonably high-end (for its time) iMac back in 2007. Still use it.

I'm still using a second generation duel core PC

 

Is that the one where the two cores fight each other? ;)

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I was told never ever take dimensions from a drawing. Always rely on stated measurements which ought to be marked on a drawing.

Presumably in this case no dimensions are given.

Yes, there are some stated dimensions on the drawing. What I did was to use the coupled wheelbase on the “x” axis, and the height of the buffers from the rail, and the height from the rail to the top of the chimney as “y” axis. What happened in the original print I have no idea, but the one I am using now seems fairly accurate.

Further views of the end on from the front and the back are dimensioned, and once again, they ‘fit in’ with the new drawing, for example the width of the footplate. I cannot vouch that the final model made from this drawing, will be 100% accurate, but it will look right when compared with photos, because, if not, it goes into the bin.

Derek

Edited by Mrkirtley800
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Please, please be careful if you are basing your model on the drawing by Ken Woodhead (Illustrated View of Midland Locomotives Vol II - p102). Drawings by K Woodhead esq, who I knew, have in my opinion a somewhat undeserved reputation for accuracy.

In this particular example some of the more obvious ones are the cab controls partly include arrangements used with earlier 4-4-0 classes, the brake hangers should be the single type not the double type drawn and perhaps most important of all the end elevation is misleading because he has overlooked that the frame plates were in two parts which were bolted together in way of the motion plate. This has resulted in odd gaps appearing either side of the smokebox.

Crimson Rambler

 

Edited by Crimson Rambler
Trying to edit it I posted too soon in error!

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Thank you for that bit of info, Crimson Rambler.  Yes, one or two little niggles had ocurred, and I never take drawings at face value.

I always try to match up the drawing with photographs, and, as I have said previously, I cannot guarantee exact accuracy, there will always be something that crops up when the thing is finished and painted.  But, if it looks right I will be happy.

Derek

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Derek, given that we, now, so long after the events, will never probably have all the facts at our disposal, that philosophy is probably the most satisfactory one. It is always the case that new information comes to light (often from Finger-Pointy-Loud-Voice-Man at exhibitions) after the model is complete.

I feel that building something at a best guess basis is better than not building it at all because perfecction will never be attained.

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