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Midland Railway Company

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To clarify John-Miles observations, by steam circuit, I meant the pathway taken by the steam from the boiler water/steam interface to the point where it enters the cylinder and then from where it leaves the cylinder until it has escaped from the blast-pipe. Perhaps it’s not a good choice of word but my defence is that Chapelon used it and he was quite a good locomotive engineer!

 

Thus, from this definition the regulator is included. I think reasonably because we can assume an engine trying to produce maximum effort in any particular cut-off, at speed, will have full regulator. Hence also my comment about the port openings being more or less the same in the two engines.

 

As you mention smaller diameter pipes lead to higher friction losses. It is possible to equate the loss caused by bends etc as an ‘equivalent’ length of straight pipe that is added to the actual length to obtain the total loss. Since both engines were 4-4-0s of similar size, their steam circuits will had more or less the same actual length so we can gain a good approximation of their relative performance at each discrete section in their steam circuits simply by comparing the pipe diameters.

 

If the same flow rate is attempted in two pipes of different diameter the relative pressure drops will be in the ratio of their diameters raised to a power commonly taken as 4.75. Thus a 5-inch pipe at the same steam flow will have a pressure drop that is only around one-third that experienced in a 4-inch pipe.

 

Crimson Rambler

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On 16/07/2020 at 07:29, Compound2632 said:

 

Have you checked the boiler power calculation? What is the grate area?

 

On 16/07/2020 at 11:28, Crimson Rambler said:

The grate area of the boiler carried by the LYR class 28 was 18.75sq ft, so at 40ihp/sq ft that gives 750 horsepower just making the engines Class 3 for power.

 

The Great Eastern, for example, built a couple of powerful 0-6-0 classes - J19 and J20.

On Nationalization the former was class 4F and the other 6F. In 1953 both were reclassified 5F which I guess was when BR introduced its modified system - or were there complaints from the operating people?

 

Crimson Rambler   

Ah, thanks, both of you.

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On 14/07/2020 at 18:47, Dave Hunt said:

When challenged over the ruling gradient on his suggested route for the Caledonian line North of Carlisle, Locke remarked that with the advances in locomotive power being made, the problem would not be getting up the hills but slowing or stopping on the way down (not a verbatim quote but a paraphrasing).

 

Dave

But that issue of the braking was surely due to the lack of brakes controlled by the locomotive crew. In the early days the braking was done by brakesmen on individual vehicles. A train might of had 2,3 or even 4 brakesmen, which was difficult to coordinate.

So not surprising that controlling trains coming down, was seen as a significant problem.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

But that issue of the braking was surely due to the lack of brakes controlled by the locomotive crew. In the early days the braking was done by brakesmen on individual vehicles. A train might of had 2,3 or even 4 brakesmen, which was difficult to coordinate.

 

Not only were there no continuous brakes on the train but they were hand brakes and for some time there were none on the locomotive, only hand brakes on the tender. Even when steam brakes became widespread on locomotives the lack of continuous brakes dragged on for decades until the companies were more or less forced to do something about it and the famous Newark brake trials were held. After that the situation for passenger trains improved gradually but goods and mineral trains largely remained unbraked except for the locomotive and guard's van for a very long time.  The whole saga of brake systems on British locomotives and trains was a long and sad affair that reflected badly on the railway companies and compared poorly with some foreign railways. The same can be said for couplings. The fact that well into the second half of the 20th century BR was operating long unfitted, loose coupled goods and mineral trains was looked on with scorn and amazement by some other countries.

 

Dave 

Edited by Dave Hunt
Wrong century (by nine!)
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1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Not only were there no continuous brakes on the train but they were hand brakes and for some time there were none on the locomotive, only hand brakes on the tender. Even when steam brakes became widespread on locomotives the lack of continuous brakes dragged on for decades until the companies were more or less forced to do something about it and the famous Newark brake trials were held. After that the situation for passenger trains improved gradually but goods and mineral trains largely remained unbraked except for the locomotive and guard's van for a very long time.  The whole saga of brake systems on British locomotives and trains was a long and sad affair that reflected badly on the railway companies and compared poorly with some foreign railways. The same can be said for couplings. The fact that well into the second half of the 29th century BR was operating long unfitted, loose coupled goods and mineral trains was looked on with scorn and amazement by some other countries.

 

Dave 

AKA newfangled, expensive nonsense! Providing proper brakes, interlocked signals and points would make locomotive crews and signalmen irresponsible, by not bothering with time intervals and instead relying on the equipment, to do their job for them!

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Some more progress on the MPD but also I have come up with a story to justify what I am making. As I have posted before, the track plan is similar to Hellifield with the turntable moved in order to keep the baseboard width manageable but the buildings and other features I have in mind come from all over the Midland system but just happen to be ones I like. One of the major problems I had was that I wanted to make the entrance to the visible section from the fiddleyard through a two track overbridge based on the one at Ripple that took my fancy but how to justify an expensive structure like that for an MPD? The inspiration came from looking at Rowsley where the original terminus station became the site of an MPD. When the line was extended through the Peak, rather than being a simple end on junction the new line was taken off before the station so that is now my excuse - the site of my MPD was once a temporary terminus that was meant to be extended but eventually the line was taken off further back leaving a two track overbridge at the entrance to what became the MPD. This idea also gave me the excuse to include a goods shed, which is another structure I wanted to make, either as the goods faclility for the (offstage) station or as taken over by the PW Dept. as a depot; I haven't decided yet which it will be. Hence of the two tracks through the bridge, one carries on straight ahead to the MPD proper whilst the other turns off into the goods (or whatever) shed which handily also hides a couple of point motors. I'm not sure whether this story is believable but it's a bit late for a rewrite now!

 

Anyway, since I last posted I've made the topography and the bridge. The topography from the bridge to the end of the elevated coal road is made using ply and foamboard formers with hundreds of cereal packet strips glued across then covered in thin PVA soaked kitchen roll and finally coated in plaster of Paris. The lower elevation stuff at the other end is expanded poystyrene packaging shaped with a hot wire cutter and covered in a pop skim. The whole lot is painted with brown emulsion ready for grassing etc.

 

Here's a picture of the bridge - embossed Plastikard over a ply shell with scribed plastic strip coping stones and a thick card road covered with chinchilla grit and various water colour washes before a spray of Dullcote.

IMG_0558.JPG.89a93bdb7d095b68c2bfd49976264076.JPG

 

And another view of the bridge. The near road is the one that turns off to the goods shed.

IMG_0563.JPG.ac372e692fc1a56654852ce1ccf91136.JPG

 

 

This shows the arrangement of the through track to the MPD proper and the second track turning off to the old goods shed.

IMG_0565.JPG.400c9dde4a776607cb30eeffda440be5.JPG

 

 

An overall view of one end of the layout. The black box by the turntable will be inside the stores building, access to which will be via a rtoadway coming from the goods shed area, alongside the siding and across the tracks to the space between the end of the elevated track and the stores itself.

IMG_0560.JPG.50b205b6e68dc42a35bfb5eff5f23ecd.JPG

 

 

An overall view of the layout so far less the shed, which will be behind the camera. Not a very good quality picture I'm afraid but my photogtaphic skills and equipment are not of the best. Still, it gives an idea of what the overall scheme is.

IMG_0564.JPG.c9f21234373e68587f3b6fc1c6d90202.JPG

 

 

The next job is to make the goods shed so that I can get an accurate footprint around which I can then put down a cobbled yard with the road off it leading down to the stores. I may also start some grassing etc. as a bit of experimentation and possibly light relief (depending on how well it goes!). So far it's taken me sixteen months to get this far so providing I survive to be a hundred I may get it finished.

 

TTFN

 

Dave

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I take it that bit in the middle with the elevated siding is a coaling stage?

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Indeed it will be - not a model of a specific one but a typical Midland stage not unlike Bedford.

 

Dave

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1 minute ago, Dave Hunt said:

not unlike Bedford

Pleasant, if a little bit dull, but prone to small acts of violence on a Friday night?

 

(Or is that just my experience of it?)

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Train set looking good David

 

Ah Bedford for the coaling stage - you know it makes sense to relocate the whole layout further south!

 

Will ring in the week, re cigars and a chat.

 

 

Crimson Rambler

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Looking good Dave. 

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After a socially distanced (about a hundred miles or so) discussion with the Rambler we decided that it's about time we had a cigar and a dram..... ah, sorry, got a bit carried away there; we decided that the goods shed on the layout would sit with my back story better if it had been taken over by the PW dept. as an area depot. It will also give me an excuse to have some nice red ED wagons. I seem to recall that someone made some posts somewhere about the axlebox covers on them - anyone recall who it was?

 

Dave 

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On 26/07/2020 at 20:59, Dave Hunt said:

Indeed it will be - not a model of a specific one but a typical Midland stage not unlike Bedford.

 

I'm sure you don't need to be told of the collection of coaling stage drawings held by the Midland Railway Study Centre. There's even a little 3-bay one that could be the prototype for the Metcalfe card kit!

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I've had a couple of requests for a bit more detail of the scenic structure on my layout so below are a couple of pictures showing the work as it was in progress.

 

This one shows all three stages prior to painting. On the left is a section with the underlying structure as well as some that has been covered with kitchen towel. The basic shape is achieved with 3mm ply formers every foot or so with foamboard ones in between at about 3 or 4in spacing. The webbing is simply strips of cereal boxes glue across the formers with sheets of kitched towel laid on after being dragged through the thinned PVA that can be seen in the decorators' paint tray right middle. The tissue has to be soaked before applying to the structure as if it is draped over then the thinned glue brushed on it sags something 'orrid and is a bu**er to straighten out (no guesses required as to how I know this!). To the right of the bridge is a section with the plaster of Paris skin applied. The recess with the red box inside it towards the bridge in the section where the kichen roll has been applied is where the two point motors for the three throw turnout are hidden. After this picture was taken I made a simple removable hatch for it from ply; the joint will eventually be hidden by bushes and such. The black box is to cover more point motors and will be hidden inside the old goods shed/PW store.

P1060008.JPG.f6350b1a06d04717dadc619042c192fa.JPG

 

This is just the section where the coaling stage will be and gives a further idea of how the basic structure was achieved. The ply box set into the structure to the right of the gap for the coaling stage is where one of the point motors lives and now has a removable hatch over it.

P1060009.JPG.fcf99bee369db1743fc2755840d75ec7.JPG

 

I hope that this gives a better idea of what lies underneath all the brown emulsion paint in my earlier post.

 

Dave  

 

 

 

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It's interesting the different techniques people use. I have cardboard formers at 50 mm centres (very approximately) which are then covered with plasterer's scrim coated with pva and then kitchen towel glued down with pva. I let the towel wrinkle so the "grass" is not too smooth. As always it's a matter of what works for you which is mostly down to experience with a particular method.

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I used chicken wire stapled down at the edges then shaped. Then got some garden floss cut into 3" squares. Then a mix of either Polyfilla or Hydrocal which was coloured  either dark grey or dark brown with poster paint.  The floss was then dipped in the hydrocal before being draped over the chicken wire. 2 layers were usually applied then when semi hard some more mix was applied over it with a pallet knife.

 

Then flock applied whild the surface was still damp and dprayed with hair spray.

 

Jamie

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Posted (edited)
On 07/08/2020 at 16:22, John-Miles said:

It's interesting the different techniques people use. 

Indeed!

 

Mine is described briefly here with resilience and light weight in mind.  Some of the results are here and further down the page.

 

Jim

Edited by Caley Jim
Correction of links
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Jim, for some reason when I click on the links in your post it takes me to the 'report this post' page. Odd...

 

Dave

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21 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

Jim, for some reason when I click on the links in your post it takes me to the 'report this post' page. Odd...

Apologies.  I must have inserted the wrong link from the post.  Now corrected.

 

Jim

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A couple of photos that may interest readers.  Before the reconstruction of Leeds station in 2000 there used to be a grounded van body in Whitehall Road Good Yard.  It disappeared during the rebuilding as it's site was needed for the two extra tracks round the Whitehall curve.   I thought that this was of Midland Origins but never did any serious research about it.

349211599_Film1999-5009.jpg.c94882fa71860bf296c6fd4128ba5666.jpg

 On this shot from a different angle the number 385 is just visible to the lower left of the doorway.

1915654824_Film1999-5010.jpg.67ac636a0f2b88ed2b8b6e5dbe518c0d.jpgAny information about this relic would be much appreciated.

 

Jamie

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It is the body of a Midland D362 / D363 8 ton / 10 ton covered goods wagon. First examples buil in 1893 but mass-production really started in 1899 with the same body style being used up to c. 1915 - away from my copy of Midland Wagons at the moment, so those dates are from memory. There are several preserved examples - one I've seen is at the Bucks Railway Centre at Quainton Road.

 

Had someone been sleeping in it?

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

It is the body of a Midland D362 / D363 8 ton / 10 ton covered goods wagon. First examples buil in 1893 but mass-production really started in 1899 with the same body style being used up to c. 1915 - away from my copy of Midland Wagons at the moment, so those dates are from memory. There are several preserved examples - one I've seen is at the Bucks Railway Centre at Quainton Road.

 

Had someone been sleeping in it?

Thanks for that Stephen.  Perhaps the number needs adding to the list in Midland Wagons. Knowing the area it was in rather well it may well have been used as an accomodation block at some time. The ladies on Water Lane may well gave used it for other purposes. I'm glad that there are other examples preserved.

 

Jamie

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11 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Perhaps the number needs adding to the list in Midland Wagons.

 

I have been compiling a list of Midland wagon numbers that already goes some way beyond (and in some cases corrects) thi information in Midland Wagons. Out of 124,000+ numbers, I have about 2,000, of which for about 70% the wagon type is positively identified. Some way to go yet! I hesitate to add that number 368 to the list as the body is otherwise in an "unpainted" state and the number is in a non-standard position for any Midland / LMS / BT livery style, I think.

 

15 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

The ladies on Water Lane may well gave used it for other purposes.

 

Genuine Edwardian boudoir...

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