technohand Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I have copied the above attachments from the "Stretcher Bars of the Midland Railway" Topic as I feel that all people interested in Midland Track Will be interested. There is a lot of very useful information in this Topic and I suggest every one reads it. I hope the authors of the topic don't mind the liberty I have taken. Edited March 15, 2018 by technohand 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
technohand Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Please note that the above pictures are reproduced for research and non commercial purposes only and may be subject to copyright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) This van is currently on display at Tenterden Town on the Kent & East Sussex Railway - and is likely to be relocated to Bodiam (also K&ESR) in the near future. It came from HM Dockyard, Chatham, in April 1983, where it was Navy Yard No. 564. Possibly dates back to the 1880s. I wonder if any of you Midland Railway experts could provide further information about it? (For the avoidance of doubt, the crane jib sticking up above the roof is not part of the van...) Edited March 15, 2018 by Tom Burnham 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 100_6269.JPG This van is currently on display at Tenterden Town on the Kent & East Sussex Railway - and is likely to be relocated to Bodiam (also K&ESR) in the near future. It came from HM Dockyard, Chatham, in April 1983, where it was Navy Yard No. 564. Possibly dates back to the 1880s. I wonder if any of you Midland Railway experts could provide further information about it? (For the avoidance of doubt, the crane jib sticking up above the roof is not part of the van...) Well, although it looks to be an early Mid Rly Dia 353, there are a few differences. The bottom metalwork fittings are replacements, they should look like those at the top of the corners. The left hand slanting piece of wood should be the other way - bottom left to top right. The other side of the doors - there should be two angled pieces starting from the bottom of the central pillar and going to the opposite top corners. The double doors I would suggest are a rplacement for the sliding (to the right) original door, and thus the relavent ironwork has been removed. There's also a difference in the number of planks, 8 planks are visible in the photo, 9 planks was the norm. Otherwise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Well, although it looks to be an early Mid Rly Dia 353, there are a few differences. The bottom metalwork fittings are replacements, they should look like those at the top of the corners. The left hand slanting piece of wood should be the other way - bottom left to top right. The other side of the doors - there should be two angled pieces starting from the bottom of the central pillar and going to the opposite top corners. The double doors I would suggest are a rplacement for the sliding (to the right) original door, and thus the relavent ironwork has been removed. There's also a difference in the number of planks, 8 planks are visible in the photo, 9 planks was the norm. Otherwise Mid Rly Dia 353 Van.jpg Wasn't me, guv'nor, honest, must've been them blokes down the Dockyard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
technohand Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 had a look in the Midland Waggons Vol1.Does'nt appear to be anything like it. Have you looked at Southeast and Chatham Railway records? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) It is clearly a D353 covered goods wagon that has been adapted down the years. Apart from the replacement cupboard doors and reversal and removal of some of the diagonal framing, it rather looks as if the sheeting has been renewed with wider boards. If you run a tape measure over it, it should stand a tad under 10ft high to the top of the roof. The brake gear has clearly also been modified. Most interestingly, it still has its original 8A axleboxes, befitting a vehicle built in the 1880s; the later Ellis 10A type coming in in the 90s. Between 1880 and 1892, 1,440 of these wagons were built. The Midland Railway Study Centre holds a copy of the relevant drawing, Drg. 401 of March 1879, though this isn't yet one that is available as a digital scan. I'd call this an historically important vehicle. Edited March 18, 2018 by Compound2632 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Anybody familiar with the Midland Railway Yankee Moguls? They must've been some interesting locomotives. Does anybody wish there were 00 Gauge models of them in kits or RTR form? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2018 Anybody familiar with the Midland Railway Yankee Moguls? They must've been some interesting locomotives. Does anybody wish there were 00 Gauge models of them in kits or RTR form? These. For full details see the standard works on Midland Engines! Likewise the Great Central and Great Northern examples. Many years ago there was an article on converting an O Gauge plastic "Casey Jones" kit (possibly this Rivarossi kit?) to represent one of the Baldwin engines - the article was entitled "Casey Johnson". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Anybody familiar with the Midland Railway Yankee Moguls? They must've been some interesting locomotives. Does anybody wish there were 00 Gauge models of them in kits or RTR form? There was a 4mm model of one of these on the Ambergate layout, which I presume was scratch built. I know the current owner. Dave Hunt of Midland Railway loco books fame has a 7mm model which is absolutely beautiful. I know I am a masochist, but if everything is available in ready to run form, it leaves nothing to scratch build. I enjoy cutting and bashing bits of metal and turning up chimneys is one of the most satisfying activities possible (I am getting on in years so some satisfying activities and getting a bit beyond me). 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 These. For full details see the standard works on Midland Engines! Likewise the Great Central and Great Northern examples. Many years ago there was an article on converting an O Gauge plastic "Casey Jones" kit (possibly this Rivarossi kit?) to represent one of the Baldwin engines - the article was entitled "Casey Johnson". That's interesting. I have been inspired mainly by it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2018 I'm lucky enough to have a 7mm model of one of the Baldwin moguls scratch built by Ray Clasper. I don't have a decent photo of it at the moment but it appears at about the 20 second mark in this video. Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I'm lucky enough to have a 7mm model of one of the Baldwin moguls scratch built by Ray Clasper. I don't have a decent photo of it at the moment but it appears at about the 20 second mark in this video. Jamie Nice layout, that! Also, nice model of the mogul, too. Wouldn't it be nice to feature it in the Midland Railway crimson livery? Also, is it possible to make a 00 Gauge version of it? Most likely with a GWR 4300 Chassis and a Hornby bogie tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 These. For full details see the standard works on Midland Engines! Likewise the Great Central and Great Northern examples. Many years ago there was an article on converting an O Gauge plastic "Casey Jones" kit (possibly this Rivarossi kit?) to represent one of the Baldwin engines - the article was entitled "Casey Johnson". Do you know if there are plans for this loco anywhere? Fits perfectly in my G3 scope and Ive been wanting to build an American loco to G3. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 There is the Midland Record Supplement No.1 - American Locomotives of the Midland Railway by the aforementioned David Hunt. ISBN 1 874103 41 0. It includes drawings of both the Baldwin and the Scenectady locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2018 Nice layout, that! Also, nice model of the mogul, too. Wouldn't it be nice to feature it in the Midland Railway crimson livery? Also, is it possible to make a 00 Gauge version of it? Most likely with a GWR 4300 Chassis and a Hornby bogie tender. Thanks for the kind comments. Yes it would look nice in maroon. Ray also built a model of the Schenectady mogul for another fiend of mine and that was painted in maroon and looked nice. The Baldwin got built because we had a photo of one at Lancaster in post 1907 black. It is actually too early for the layout which is set in 1923 but the story we use is that it got hidden at Green Ayre during the war. It normally pulls the empty cattle train on the down main. I've never seen a model in 00 and wouldn't know where to start. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the kind comments. Yes it would look nice in maroon. Ray also built a model of the Schenectady mogul for another fiend of mine and that was painted in maroon and looked nice. The Baldwin got built because we had a photo of one at Lancaster in post 1907 black. It is actually too early for the layout which is set in 1923 but the story we use is that it got hidden at Green Ayre during the war. It normally pulls the empty cattle train on the down main. I've never seen a model in 00 and wouldn't know where to start. Jamie No problem! I'd love to make a Yankee Mogul like that myself one day, please. Please could you show us how? Edited March 22, 2018 by LNWR18901910 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2018 No problem! I'd love to make a Yankee Mogul like that myself one day, please. Please could you show us how? Unfortunately the loco is packed away and I can't get at it at the moment as we are in the process of moving to France. The layout is already there. When I get chance I will get some photos of it and post them. As far as I know the majority of the loco is built from Plasticard with a brass chassis. Ray will have turned the boiler fittings himself. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 No problem! I'd love to make a Yankee Mogul like that myself one day, please. Please could you show us how? I had a go at "bashing" one for a dear departed colleague, many, many years ago. I used a H0 scale "Roundhouse" kit and basically just added buffers to it and some decals transfers. Nowadays, you could probably make a good start with a Bachmann Spectrum mogul, surely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I had a go at "bashing" one for a dear departed colleague, many, many years ago. I used a H0 scale "Roundhouse" kit and basically just added buffers to it and some decals transfers. Nowadays, you could probably make a good start with a Bachmann Spectrum mogul, surely. You did? Please can we see how it looked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) You did? Please can we see how it looked? Aargh! I'm so sorry, my friend who I did this for, has been passed away for nearly twenty years now and I've no idea what happened to all his stuff. I still find it hard to take the time out to photograph my work (when I actually do any modelling!) so back in the days before digital pictures, not a chance of me photographing it. Still, google "Roundhouse HO mogul" or "Spectrum HO mogul" to see that these models are quite similar. http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/roundhouse260moguladvisory.html http://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2012/06/Bachmann-ho-scale-2-6-0-mogul Note: The Bachmann model is based upon a 1924 built prototype so much more "modern"! Okay, what about the size disparity? Well, these are H0 scale models of "typical" American machines, which are usually bigger than British prototypes anyway so overall, the effect is not bad - it is only an approximation of course, not a dead scale model. Hope this helps, wish I could help further. John. Edited March 23, 2018 by Allegheny1600 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Well, Ive ordered the Midland Supplement book from Amazon. Now to decide which loco Id prefer to build, the distinctly American or the strange hybrid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Well, Ive ordered the Midland Supplement book from Amazon. Now to decide which loco Id prefer to build, the distinctly American or the strange hybrid. I'd go for one of the Baldwin engines, as I can neither spell nor pronounce Shenektadey Schenenekady Schenectady. But at least the tenders for the latter are available off-the-shelf being standard Midland 3250 gal tenders later coupled to Class 4 goods engines. EDIT: oops, no they're not - non-standard shorter 12'3" wheelbase, apparently. Thinking about the Baldwin moguls and that rather nice Roundhouse HO one, if anyone happens to have one could they post the leading dimensions? The Midland's Baldwin engines had coupled wheelbase 6'3" + 8'6", and 5'0" diameter wheels - 25 mm + 34 mm and 20 mm diameter at 4 mm scale. The Roundhouse model looks to have about the right proportions though the leading and centre drivers look a little close together. In HO, these dimensions would correspond to 7'2" + 9'8" and 5'7" diameter - perhaps a little tall in the wheel for an American mogul? Edited March 23, 2018 by Compound2632 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I'd go for one of the Baldwin engines, as I can neither spell nor pronounce Shenektadey Schenenekady Schenectady. But at least the tenders for the latter are available off-the-shelf being standard Midland 3250 gal tenders later coupled to Class 4 goods engines. EDIT: oops, no they're not - non-standard shorter 12'3" wheelbase, apparently. Thinking about the Baldwin moguls and that rather nice Roundhouse HO one, if anyone happens to have one could they post the leading dimensions? The Midland's Baldwin engines had coupled wheelbase 6'3" + 8'6", and 5'0" diameter wheels - 25 mm + 34 mm and 20 mm diameter at 4 mm scale. The Roundhouse model looks to have about the right proportions though the leading and centre drivers look a little close together. In HO, these dimensions would correspond to 7'2" + 9'8" and 5'7" diameter - perhaps a little tall in the wheel for an American mogul? Skeh-neck-tedy. I have a friend from around there. Beautiful theatre there as well. As Id be building in G3, there aint anything off-the-shelf for me! Im thinking the Schenectady one simply due to the city. However I do like the 8 wheeled tender and minimal footplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I wonder what Johnson thought of the American locos. I suspect he was appalled by their appearance and rumour has it that they were not as well finished as Derby's products. Also before he died (in 1912) Deeley has produced the Flatirons which score null point for attractiveness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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