Bachmann 2015/16 Speculation ... or Divination 101 as it is known on the Hogwarts Express

[Andy W]

What I would really like to see, to help out the less-well off modeller, is Bachmann releasing DCC-ready chassis that would fit the old Mainline Manors, GW moguls, 56xx tanks, Jubilees, Scots, Warships, J72s etc. The bodies weren't that bad, and they can be picked up cheaply, as their motors are/were rubbish.

 

It just seems a waste to have all those old models kicking around on eBay and at swapmeets, that no-one wants because they don't run properly.

 

If Bachmann won't do it, maybe DJ would consider it?

When the former Mainline models started being produced under the Bachmann name, the Barwell team got Kader to retool the chassis for Manors, Moguls, Scots, Jubilees and many more. These were still split-chassis design but with a new motor and a large brass worm that was supposed to act as a flywheel. They were sold both as new runs of the complete model and separately in blister packs for people who wanted to replace the poor Mainline chassis. Graham Hubbard of Bachmann Europe officially described sales of separate chassis as "disappointing".

Some models such as the Collett 0-6-0 and the 56XX never got these replacement chassis because they went straight to the Blue Riband range with modified body tooling and a conventional chassis arrangement. The new chassis for these and other models such as the Jubilee and Pannier that have been completely retooled since don't fit the original Mainline bodies as errors in the original body moulding have been corrected and fixing points changed.

Now with some modelling you can make the chassis fit, but since sales were poor when the "drop-in" replacement chassis were on the market, how much less would they be if you have to modify the bodies and chassis as well?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

What I would really like to see, to help out the less-well off modeller, is Bachmann releasing DCC-ready chassis that would fit the old Mainline Manors, GW moguls, 56xx tanks, Jubilees, Scots, Warships, J72s etc. The bodies weren't that bad, and they can be picked up cheaply, as their motors are/were rubbish.

 

It just seems a waste to have all those old models kicking around on eBay and at swapmeets, that no-one wants because they don't run properly.

 

If Bachmann won't do it, maybe DJ would consider it?

I agree with the sentiment, but confirm Andy W's reply. Sadly there are appear to be too few of us prepared to buy - and do any necessary DIY adaption - to make it viable as a business. 

 

What I have done is buy as cheaply as possible - usually second hand, sometimes clearance stock - the current model with the required mechanism. (When actively doing this I kept a list on me of what would be useful, just in case I chanced on something good unexpectedly.) By selling on the unwanted body (and tender where applicable) the cost can come right down. Once or twice I have lucked into mechanism purchases on this site, folks installing an etched chassis for an EM or P4 conversion for example. Got a good range of charity shops near you? Once in a while 'goodies' turn up at these, it is well worth asking frequently enough so that the staff get to know you. Had a couple of real bargain prices there - even after I had offered more than they were asking. Patient scratching around should get you there...

[GNR Dave]

LNER C 12 for me please.

[Frappington Jct]

I recon that a GER E4 isn't entirely implausible. Long lived and three main liveries - GER, LNER and early BR, surprisingly well traveled - they got to the NE section for a time and one's preserved - possible NRM tie in?   

[locoholic]

When the former Mainline models started being produced under the Bachmann name, the Barwell team got Kader to retool the chassis for Manors, Moguls, Scots, Jubilees and many more. These were still split-chassis design but with a new motor and a large brass worm that was supposed to act as a flywheel. They were sold both as new runs of the complete model and separately in blister packs for people who wanted to replace the poor Mainline chassis. Graham Hubbard of Bachmann Europe officially described sales of separate chassis as "disappointing".

Some models such as the Collett 0-6-0 and the 56XX never got these replacement chassis because they went straight to the Blue Riband range with modified body tooling and a conventional chassis arrangement. The new chassis for these and other models such as the Jubilee and Pannier that have been completely retooled since don't fit the original Mainline bodies as errors in the original body moulding have been corrected and fixing points changed.

Now with some modelling you can make the chassis fit, but since sales were poor when the "drop-in" replacement chassis were on the market, how much less would they be if you have to modify the bodies and chassis as well?

 

Perhaps sales were poor because some of the chassis were next to impossible to get hold of?  I waited years for a replacement 43xx chassis, and then Bachmann cancelled it, so I never got one.

 

Also, Bachmann stopped selling them before the cost of models went through the roof. I suspect they would be more popular now.

[BR Blue]

They're meant to be doing both the Class 21 and 29 versions, but there hasn't been much visible progress in the several years since they were announced

yes indeed. I just stopped short of adding "apparently" to my original post. The 21, 29 and turbot are a long time in development without any progress.

[Roy P]

I would like to see them do an Electrostar.

Me too as there a lots of varieties, however the price of a 4 car unit will almost certainly well over £200 and the market for this units is limited so I doubt it will ever happen.

That's an interesting point you make there Nigel.

You can probably guess from my location that your Croxley layout holds a particular fascination for me, therefor I'm quite aware of the units you use and the methods employed to construct them. Although I personally have only one Bratchell unit and have so far only converted one EFE '38 stock (Black Beetle motor and Metromodels trailer bogies - Worth the extra I believe) I think I'm safe in saying you wouldn't get much change out of £200 for any EMU. 

Having said that; How much "train" can you buy for £200 any way?. A pair of HST power cars and a single Mark 3? A Gresley Loco and a single Gresley teak? A decent freight type (steam or diesel) and enough freight stock as to not look silly? And how much for Bachmann's 64xx (or Hattons 14xx) + Autocoach?

£200 seems to be the starting point for a complete train now so I'm not sure if it's a purely monetary consideration that might put dissuade anyone from offering RTR EMUs.

I think were in the territory explored in the "Why aren't people buying Bachmann class 85s"  topic. Alternatively, EMUs don't display so well in cabinets (of course everyone with a Brighton Belle or Midland Pullman unit will be running them constantly  ).

Railway Modelling has never the been the cheapest of hobbies and I suspect that after each round of price hikes, things settle into the new normal and eventually people see that the "complete train" that a multiple unit offers represents pretty good value. I must confess that this needed to be pointed out to me by someone with more of an interest in them

All of which is a long winded way of saying - I understand your concerns Nigel but am perhaps a bit more optimistic about the future of RTR units. 

For 2015? probably not but while we're on the subject; When did the Class 313 stop being a no-brainer? Start with the 2-car 313034 "Croxley Rocket"

Anyway, All I really want to see from Bachmann is a vote of confidence in the future of their chosen sector. If pleases most the people some of the time then Job Done!

 

RP

[Purley Oaks]

What I would really like to see, to help out the less-well off modeller, is Bachmann releasing DCC-ready chassis that would fit the old Mainline Manors, GW moguls, 56xx tanks, Jubilees, Scots, Warships, J72s etc. The bodies weren't that bad, and they can be picked up cheaply, as their motors are/were rubbish.

 

It just seems a waste to have all those old models kicking around on eBay and at swapmeets, that no-one wants because they don't run properly.

 

If Bachmann won't do it, maybe DJ would consider it?

It's a nice thought but I think that Bachmann would rather sell the complete loco; they don't have to look after the less-well off modeller, that's what swap-meets and eBay are for.

Mal

[tomparryharry]

Without hacking back thro' the pages, my money is on a Western 94xx

 

Ian

[jonathan452]

Could a centre car for the class 101s be done as an available on its own option in the way that extra cars for the Pendelino were? They would then have the option of selling three car formations as well as extra centre cars for those with two car units that they want to expand.

Might be a rather underpowered set if it was to be used in conjunction with the current two car offerings. (See later pages in the 101 thread.)

[ady77014]

I guess hoping for a ex. LB&SCR 'motor' set is a forlorn hope... as normal...

[7013]

The only new model I would like is 18000, the rest of my wishes have been announced or built

[coachmann]

I am sure a 'Saint' hasn't passed their notice, but I will blindly throw a dart at the board and say a Midland 0-4-4T, BR Std 2MT 2-6-2T or 78XXX 2-6-0.

[Market65]

I recon that a GER E4 isn't entirely implausible. Long lived and three main liveries - GER, LNER and early BR, surprisingly well traveled - they got to the NE section for a time and one's preserved - possible NRM tie in?   

Hi, Frappington Jct. You're quite right. I've a photo' of an E4 entering York from Hull via Market Weighton in about 1929 - unfortunately I cannot put my hands on the book in question at the moment, but I remember being quite surprised by the photo'.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

 

PS. I've a scratchbuilt E4, which means that an E4 will probably be announced!

[Ozexpatriate]

I am sure a 'Saint' hasn't passed their notice, but I will blindly throw a dart at the board and say a Midland 0-4-4T, BR Std 2MT 2-6-2T or 78XXX 2-6-0.

Nice list.

 

If we were to review the top ten results from the wishlist poll for last year, we'd see:

 

457 ... Level crossing – working – steam era gated (single/double track)

387 ... BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

377 ... SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

351 ... GWR Steam Railmotor (preserved at GWS 2011) ***ANNOUNCED*** Kernow / DJModels

351 ... Turntable – working – 70ft (vacuum type)

340 ... LSWR/SR S15 4-6-0 (30496-30515, 30823-30847) ***ANNOUNCED*** Hornby

332 ... Class 120 Swindon Cross-Country 3-car

331 ... LSWR 0415 Adams Radial 4-4-2T (30582-30584) ***ANNOUNCED*** Oxford Rail + Hornby

327 ... BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

319 ... GWR Churchward 47xx 2-8-0 (4700-4708) ***ANNOUNCED*** Heljan

 

So what locomotives are left from the top ten?

BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

 

Bachmann already has drawings from the Farish Merchant Navy making it a high contender and the BR standard 2-6-0s have 'Bachmann' written all over them in my estimation, particularly the 78xxx.

[GordonC]

Nice list.

 

If we were to review the top ten results from the wishlist poll for last year, we'd see:

 

457 ... Level crossing – working – steam era gated (single/double track)

387 ... BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

377 ... SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

351 ... GWR Steam Railmotor (preserved at GWS 2011) ***ANNOUNCED*** Kernow / DJModels

351 ... Turntable – working – 70ft (vacuum type)

340 ... LSWR/SR S15 4-6-0 (30496-30515, 30823-30847) ***ANNOUNCED*** Hornby

332 ... Class 120 Swindon Cross-Country 3-car

331 ... LSWR 0415 Adams Radial 4-4-2T (30582-30584) ***ANNOUNCED*** Oxford Rail + Hornby

327 ... BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

319 ... GWR Churchward 47xx 2-8-0 (4700-4708) ***ANNOUNCED*** Heljan

 

So what locomotives are left from the top ten?

BR Standard Class 2 2-6-0 (78000-78064)

SR Merchant Navy – Air-smoothed Casing 4-6-2 (35001-35030)

BR Standard Class 3 2-6-0 (77000-77019)

 

Bachmann already has drawings from the Farish Merchant Navy making it a high contender and the BR standard 2-6-0s have 'Bachmann' written all over them in my estimation, particularly the 78xxx.

 

No reason why the Class 120 should be left out ... maybe if I dig out my kit to finish off it'd get an RTR one announced!

[MG 7305]

What about a final livery western region version of the 6 car diesel Pullman with jumper cables etc.  Surely a cheap conversion for Bachmann and a whole new market?

 

Best regards

[The Stationmaster]

What about a final livery western region version of the 6 car diesel Pullman with jumper cables etc.  Surely a cheap conversion for Bachmann and a whole new market?

 

Best regards

Lots tooling/paint screens alteration involved and I wonder how many thousand people will have c.£400+ (if not more) to lash out on a toy train?  Somehow in present market conditions I think it won't work.

 

And let's face it if they did a 3 car Class 120 (which I happen to vote for every year) we are looking somewhere well in excess of £200 retail I would expect - again the question is how many thousand would sell at that price?

 

With the economic situation still rather unsettled and potential storms to come I really can't see anyone taking exceptional risks with new items when some models which are likely to be good sellers are still lurking waiting for selection.  Hence I still see the SECR tank as a likely contender as it is a pretty Pre-Group engine which not only lasted into BR days giving loads of livery choices but also doesn't tread on National Collection toes where licences for 'pretty engines which are likely to sell well' are not likely to be forthcoming when they have a model line and brand of their own.

[petethemole]

I am sure a 'Saint' hasn't passed their notice, but I will blindly throw a dart at the board and say a Midland 0-4-4T, BR Std 2MT 2-6-2T or 78XXX 2-6-0.

 

I think Bachmann may suspect that Hornby are planning the Saint; having retooled the 28xx and Hall of the same vintage, also the Castle and Hall, and with the Grange and ex-Dapol County in the available tooling,  the larger GWR 4-6-0s seem to be red box territory. However Bachmann seem to have adopted the 4-4-0 classes and I wouldn't be surprised to see a Bulldog in the near future. The later sub-classes survived into BR days, they were more widely used than the Cities, County 4-4-0s or Earls, and carried several liveries. A Duke might appear, but I feel it may be perceived as too similar to the Earl to sell well.

 

Pete

[Bulleidnutter]

I think Bachmann may suspect that Hornby are planning the Saint; having retooled the 28xx and Hall of the same vintage, also the Castle and Hall, and with the Grange and ex-Dapol County in the available tooling,  the larger GWR 4-6-0s seem to be red box territory. However Bachmann seem to have adopted the 4-4-0 classes and I wouldn't be surprised to see a Bulldog in the near future. The later sub-classes survived into BR days, they were more widely used than the Cities, County 4-4-0s or Earls, and carried several liveries. A Duke might appear, but I feel it may be perceived as too similar to the Earl to sell well.

 

Pete

Or changing regions with the 4-4-0 chassis idea. Maunsell 4-4-0s. D1/ E1/ L1 to go with the upcoming birdcage stock.

[tomparryharry]

Given Bachmann's ability to produce outside cranked locomotives,

 

How about an Aberdare?

 

I know, I know, I've said it before. But like a classical record, you can hear it a couple of times......

 

The way it's going, I'll finish my scratchbuild version soon. That will never do.

 

Ian 

[Ozexpatriate]

No reason why the Class 120 should be left out ... maybe if I dig out my kit to finish off it'd get an RTR one announced!

No reason at all. Honestly the only reason I didn't mention it was that I didn't know what it was, being mostly interested in pre-nationalization items, but having looked it up, it fits Bachmann's profile very well (having done the 4CEP and lots of DMUs like the class 108, class 101, Derby lightweights, etc) and is very worthy of consideration.

 

Of course Mike's point below, may factor in their interest regarding DMUs right now:

And let's face it if they did a 3 car Class 120 (which I happen to vote for every year) we are looking somewhere well in excess of £200 retail I would expect - again the question is how many thousand would sell at that price?

Having said that they do have two, three and four car DMUs in the present range, though with a cursory glance there seems to be more two car sets.

[RussellD]

Bachmann seem to be quite methodical in going through each of the regions and producing a locomotive of a specific wheel arrangement for it. In contrast, Hornby seem to produce almost everything for one region e.g. firstly for the Southern/LSWR with the WC/BB, T9, M7, Q1, Schools, Arthur etc and then more recently for the LNER/GER with the L1, B1, O1, K1, J15 and D16/3. So Bachmann have done 4-4-0s for the GWR (City and Dukedog), LMS (Compound) and LNER (D11), which leaves the Southern so like others have said I predict an SECR D class, but this might be an NRM special commission. Bachmann now seem to be doing the same for the 0-6-2s, as we have the 56xx for the Western, the E4 for the Southern is imminent and the Coal Tank announced for the LMS, so what about the LNER? Well I think the two main candidates would be an N7 or an N2. Both tick the box of having a preserved example and lasting well into the BR era. The N2 has been modelled before but a new model to todays standards would go well their GNR Atlantic. The N7 is a GER loco which means that perhaps it fits in more with Hornby's range. Again with this thinking they could start doing the same with another wheel arrangement such as an 0-4-4, perhaps the H class for the Southern, 1P for the Midland and a G5 for the LNER which has the added bonus of a new build.

[locoholic]

I do wonder what is actually going on at Barwell, as there seem to be some fairly negative vibes coming from that direction. First, there's the Blue Pullman, which despite the tooling being in existence, we are led to believe will never be produced again, as a 6 coach unit is too expensive. Then there's the virtual cessation of limited edition commissions (remember all those trucks?), presumably because of the massive price increases that even catalogue releases have suffered. What will be ruled out next: 4 coach units (4CEP?), perhaps any 3 car (Class 120?) will be deemed too expensive, then tender locos, until the only locos available in a blue box are tank locos and small diesels?

 

Compared to the avalanche of new releases that Hornby have produced in the last few months, Bachmann's performance is beginning to look a bit lacklustre. However, I'm really hoping to be proved wrong in a few week's time.

[Andy W]

Compared to the avalanche of new releases that Hornby have produced in the last few months, Bachmann's performance is beginning to look a bit lacklustre. However, I'm really hoping to be proved wrong in a few week's time.

Hornby have certainly have done very well recently with the K1, J15 and Hall all arriving within the last 3 months, along with the LMS horsebox and LNER hopper, plus long awaited reruns of GW 8-coupled tanks and Stars. In fact some of these have taken Hornby by surprise as the container(s) from China have arrived earlier than the date quoted to them by the suppliers and shipping agents, but that isn't meant to take away from the turnround Hornby have achieved.

But judging by the review samples out there and Bachmann's website, the Barwell warehouse is about to start filling up with E4 tanks, 64xx panniers, the re-done Modified Halls (remember they were withdrawn from sale because of production errors), a rerun of the 03 shunter, 21t Grain Hoppers, Tube wagons, any amount of rerun wagons of various vintages, the Porthole Brake Thirds that didn't arrive last year, rerun Mk1 suburbans etc etc. Given the Chinese New Year, these must already be manufactured and in transit. And then there are the N gauge models too...