NSE Mule Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Looking to purchase another Class 50 sound project and was wondering which projects people recommended and why? I already own the excellent Legomanbiffo project and am really happy with it's sounds overall, especially the lack of any audiable loop on idling and the clean transition from idle too accelerate and back to idle. The area I feel it lacks is the clarity of the engine on acceleration which is excellent on his class 37 project. Having looked on YouTube (totally aware of lack of sound quality!!) the Hornby sound seems to have an awful idle looping sequence and I dislike the transition from idle to accelerate. But on the plus side the engine note is clear and acceleration sounds good. SWD Class 50, dislike sound step from start up to idle, dislike idle to accelerate and not a fan of how it returns to idle. Engine note is clear though. Howes. From the videos I can see this sounds quite good though the transition to full on thrash seems a tad harsh. Obviously this is my own opinion and as mentioned I only have the majority of sounds I have only heard on YouTube, but what are your thoughts, are there any other good projects out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy7 Posted February 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2015 Legomanbiffo is by far the best 50 sound going, see his channel on YouTube. Excellent sound and transitions through the power settings. Has about 4 different power settings and sounds fantastic. I have tried most of the sound producers going and I won't buy anyone else's sounds at the moment. No connection but a very happy customer. I have 16 of his chips now. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I would totally agree with regards to Legomanbiffo's sounds, just feel the 50 sound (which I have) loses the clarity when accelerating when compared to his 37 project. As you mentioned the transitions and looping are the best on the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I have not looked specifically at the Class 50, but I disagree that Legomanbiffo is an automatic choice. The sounds, as much as provided, are definitely high quality, but he still does not provide some key effects as far as I am concerned, compared to the latest Howes products (as opposed to earlier chips which were sometimes not as sophisticated), on which the sound tables used are more than a match IMHO. For example, many Howes chips include a low speed option, very necessary for realistic sounds when shunting or on short layouts, and Howes include flashover sounds for EMUs and the Class 73, plus the sound of traversing pointwork (very effective), which continues to make them my choice, despite their higher prices. If Legomanbiffo ever supplies comparable functionality, then it could be a close call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Love the sound of traversing pointwork, agree. It's like train simulator 2015, every so often you'll hear random rail clacking which is extremely authentic IMO. Very easy to add as a random sound, but sadly missing for some reason. Same for coaches / freight coaches sounds could easily be recorded and added as a function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just emailed Howes to see how old the Class 50 project is, may be tempted if it has been recently up dated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have the Howes class 50 on a v3.5 decoder. I still like this one very much.The vast majority of my sound locos and units have either Howes or Bif's sound projects on board. Both are very good sound-wise and in controllability, but in slightly differing ways.I was not impressed with an Olivias Trains class 50 and reblew that with one of the aforementioned suppliers' sounds for a different class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Some interesting points here. It's good for the consumer when no one person dominates the market (a 'Michael Schumacher' situation if you will). Far better when several talented players can exist side by side (eg Paul, Bryan, myself and others); it keeps all of us on our toes and leads to innovation and improvement. My 50 was recorded when I was first starting out and it does show to some extent (the engine wasn't under load, and there is slightly intrusive interference from the compressor because the mic was too far from the exhaust). I have a much more recent set of recordings but they exist in a long queue of things vying for my time at the moment, unfortunately. Regarding the random sounds idea, I stopped using random sounds very early on as I found they had a habit of playing at inopportune times (purely a personal view, no criticism of the hardware) and I preferred to put things under user control instead (usually on an F key). For every one person that loves them there is another who doesn't, from what I've heard over the years. With experience I can see how they might be reintroduced but still kept under user control so I've taken on board what's been said here. Bif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi Bif, good to hear your views on the above and totally agree with you on the healthy aspect of competition! Must help when you are the one constantly pushing up the bar . Having taken another listen to the Howes project on YouTube I think I will wait for your rework on the 50 sounds as once again no one seems to nail the transition aspect of locos quite like yourself. Now the only question left to ask is, is there any form of bride or way to convince you to bump the 50 rework up that long list of jobs? . Loved the video on you recording a 26 (and thumper?) great insight in to your work. Nicely shot too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I agree with much that Bif says, though I produce projects for ZIMO decoders. Where we differ is in regard to random sounds. All my projects, apart from special requests, feature randomly generated sounds. But only those type of sounds which in real life would be randomly generated (or apparantly random from a listener/observer perspective) . Safety valves lifted on steam locos, compressors on diesel locos and so on. Bif is correct that random sounds can be played at inopportune moments and I can't think of anything less likely to sound realistic than a loco travelling over plain track and suddenly it sounds as if it is crossing a set of points. But that's just my view of reality. Some people like to hear the sound of tyres screaching in Hollywood movies when the vehicle is on a loose surface which would not produce tyre squeal... but I hate that. It is very easy for any end user to turn off the operation of each individual random sound with ZIMO decoders. So I put on the randomly generated sounds that I consider to be appropriate, and individual users can choose to continue wih them or not. Sometimes, of course, it may be appropriate to play a sound precisely when you decide it is needed. For this, you can't beat manual control via F keys. So, I usually duplicate the random sounds onto F keys, unless I have used up all 29 keys, then 'random' can be a Godsend to increase the range of sounds available. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 29 keys? You've just answered my question Paul. The crossing points can be on a function, and random rail clack, literally half a seconds worth can also be turned on / off by F key but random, off when the train is stationary. I would love, also, to have slow-med-fast sounds of the rolling stock sound passing after the loco too. Again all on F keys. The Eurostar passing at line speed on the HS1 is incredible and only lasts 7 secs. The point being is if users do not like them then they don't have play them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi Paul, I see that Digitrains has a Class 50 sound project, was that one of yours? Also do you know anywhere where there is an example of these sounds? I cannot see any with a quick search on Youtube? Was thinking of trying a zimo decoder for my next sound chip. Cheers, Rich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The sound of vehicles traversing crossings etc would be better deployed as a layout sound, in my view. A player with the appropriate sounds could then be triggered by any vehicle passing the triggering sensor. The RAIL EXCLUSIVE Class 47s which are fitted with my projects have externally triggered sounds too. If you equip the loco with a read switch and have a magnet appropriately placed near the track, the flange sound will play near tight curves of the Horn will sound near crossings and tunnels (Trigger set near 'Whistle' signs). This shows a similar effect using Hall effect sensor, but Reed switches have similar operation whilst needing only two connections. http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/magnetic-sound-control/index.htm Kind regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 29 keys? You've just answered my question Paul. The crossing points can be on a function, and random rail clack, literally half a seconds worth can also be turned on / off by F key but random, off when the train is stationary. I would love, also, to have slow-med-fast sounds of the rolling stock sound passing after the loco too. Again all on F keys. The Eurostar passing at line speed on the HS1 is incredible and only lasts 7 secs. The point being is if users do not like them then they don't have play them. Perhaps you might raise your horizons beyond only considering various Loksound solutions? This is already in the public domain, reproduced here for your convenience: This goes out with a comprehesive set of User Notes to help users get the best from their purchase. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi Paul, I see that Digitrains has a Class 50 sound project, was that one of yours? Also do you know anywhere where there is an example of these sounds? I cannot see any with a quick search on Youtube? Was thinking of trying a zimo decoder for my next sound chip. Cheers, Rich. I am currently renewing all my sound projects to include new control features such as real-time variable inertia and momentum, and a Brake Key which actually works to stop a loco and in many cases using fresh recordings. Like Bif's, the current Digitrains Class 50 recordings are from former times........ But, there is a long list to work through, and I have steam to do too, so I would suggest that the Digitrains Class 50 is not the best project to pick to get a representative example of what ZIMO is currently capable in the right hands. RE 47 and Digitrains Hymek would be much more representative for diesel power, Digitrains 8F, 9F or Beyer Garratt (with two sets of cylinder sounds) for steam. And anyone going to the Mansfield show will be able to hear my all new Class 20s, both 'A' and 'B' units for those of you who would like to run two similar (but with variations) Class 20s as a pair. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 DCC loco sounds seem to be a very very emotive subject.... For example i can remember having a discussion with someone on here about Hornby 31 sounding a like a 37.....well i should hope it does....there exactly the same engine and exhaust setup! similary if some came along and recorded 24081 im sure a lot of people would jump up and say....that sounds all wrong, because 24081 engine idle note sounds a lot different to a lot of other type 2 sulzers... Similarly anyone recording 45149 would hear an extremely loud compressor at no2 end because of the condition the compressor is in. My point is a lot of people i find have a built in automatic description of how a particular loco should sound, based on a video or a platform experience, but how a loco sounds depends on its condition and how its been driven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 DCC loco sounds seem to be a very very emotive subject.... if some came along and recorded 24081 im sure a lot of people would jump up and say....that sounds all wrong, because 24081 engine idle note sounds a lot different to a lot of other type 2 sulzers.... Mmm I've got a model of 24081! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Totally agree with you Pheaton. Contacted Howes an their 50 sound is from 2008, so an updated 50 is way over due Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 DCC loco sounds seem to be a very very emotive subject.... For example i can remember having a discussion with someone on here about Hornby 31 sounding a like a 37.....well i should hope it does....there exactly the same engine and exhaust setup! similary if some came along and recorded 24081 im sure a lot of people would jump up and say....that sounds all wrong, because 24081 engine idle note sounds a lot different to a lot of other type 2 sulzers... Similarly anyone recording 45149 would hear an extremely loud compressor at no2 end because of the condition the compressor is in. My point is a lot of people i find have a built in automatic description of how a particular loco should sound, based on a video or a platform experience, but how a loco sounds depends on its condition and how its been driven. I don't entirely agree with you on this: the 31s and 37s do have the same engines but different electrical and engine control systems, so the behaviour of the engine sounds is quite different. The level of tune is also different (class 37: 1750 hp; class 31: 1470 hp , or thereabouts) so that can also affect the output sounds a little - each of the 12 cylinders in a 37 is packing out a bigger explosion with more power. I was dissatisfied with the Hornby 31 sounds because they behaved and sounded more like a 37, where the 31s tend to rev up smoothly through the rev range, 37s tend to have rushes of rev increases followed by a steady state followed by another rush (I hope I have described that adequately). 31s also seem to have more harmonic rattles and whines at idle, although that could vary between individual locomotives of both classes. You are right, of course, in saying that it is a very emotive subject. What one person loves, another may hate. As long as the sounds satisfy the individual who owns them, that's all that matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted February 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2015 SRman.... the only difference between a 31 and 37 is a set of intercoolers, tuning heads pistons liners turbos are exactly the same......the load control as you rightly say affects the engine note on acceleration a 37 having the feature along the lines of.....you want it youve got it....but the 31 having a gentler windup, but the conversation i had was about the idle sounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 just to pitch in with my two pennorth. I too have tried most of the class 50 sounds currently available and have always felt that there is something missing from each of them. I have, however. ended up with more of Biff's than any others and would be very much in favour of a revised 50 chip jumping the queue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSE Mule Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 It would seem there is a new class 50 sound project on the market The sounds have been recorded and programmed by Jamie, a volunteer at the Chinnor Railway and they sound pretty decent from this clip. But you never get a great indication on headphones via Youtube. Anyone got one of these installed yet? I think the pennies will have to be saved for one!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooderz Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The 50 has only been on sale for approx 2 weeks thus not many have shifted to date. For anyone interested, the 50, along with all my other sound projects, will be fully demonstrated at Abrail on the 19th of March. Any questions over the 50 I've done or any of my other sounds, dont hesitate to PM me Cheers Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted February 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2016 Jamie, your class 50 sounds very nice. Coastal DCC also do a class 50. I've their class 40 and its very good. I've been put off using Zimo sound decoders as I find it difficult to programme them using my NCE powercab (there is a way, but I found it hard). My class 50 was first fitted with sounds from SWD, sound was OK, fitting a bigger speaker improved it. However, the loco was undrivable on my short layout and I found SWD unhelpful. I had it reblown by Howes or Biff (can't check at the moment) and its fine. Although I fitted the sound to my class 50 myself (It was very easy), I now get them done professionally as the cost is reasonable and far less than damaging the chip or loco (I've done both). I've locos fitted with sound by Howes, Biff, Coastal DCC and Olivias. Have to say they have all been very helpful people to deal with. Thanks guys. The reason I can't check my class 50 tonight is that all my stock is packed ready for loading into my campervan. I'm exhibiting my 00 blue diesel layout 'Linden Grove' at the Chapel-en-le-Frith show this weekend. Come along and have a listen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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