Buffers for NER P7 Hoppers

[chrisveitch]

I'm assembling a small number of NER Hoppers and the Handbook suggests either 2-070 (RCH 4 rib) or 2-082 (self contained 1'6") buffers. This old RMWeb thread gives some ideas and I've added a photo below of the one at Locomotion but none of these seem to be particularly close to the buffers designs suggested in the handbook. 

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on which Association buffers might best suit these?

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

IMG_1103 by chrisveitch, on Flickr

[Mr.S.corn78]

Hi Chris,

 

I'm not sure how true this is but a fellow member at the club I belong too says the NER hopper at locomotion is wrong and some parts that are on it weren't the ones that ran.

Unfortunately I didn't enquire as to which bits where wrong.

So the handbook may be closer to the truth.

Cheers

Simon

[chrisveitch]

Hi Chris,

 

I'm not sure how true this is but a fellow member at the club I belong too says the NER hopper at locomotion is wrong and some parts that are on it weren't the ones that ran.

Unfortunately I didn't enquire as to which bits where wrong.

So the handbook may be closer to the truth.

Cheers

Simon

 

Thanks Simon - I can well believe that given what else I hear about the NRM...

 

I forgot to link to the post but have now fixed this. The thread shows a few details and the photo of the hopper at Goathland on page 1 seems to show a similiar-but-not-identical buffer to that at Locomotion with a cast-in step. There's also this thread showing a couple of them at Beamish which again seem to be a similar buffer design, but I'm not aware that there's a 2mm Association casting for them. The RCH 2-rib (2-076) with a tiny step stuck on top might do.

[Phil Copleston]

I seem to remember that these 2mm NER hopper kits were originally developed by Paul Hodgeson and Bob Jones who knew their prototype well. So I think you can assume the 2mm Handbook advice is correct, as is the instruction sheet originally supplied with the kits, not the possibly erroneous preserved example at Shildon. Incidentally, there was originally an earlier brown plastic version of the body kit, later replaced by a better moulded grey plastic body. And the buffers and springs were at first in lost-way brass, but these proved too difficult to work with (cut off the sprue), so were superceded by white-metal versions.

 

But as ever, do your own research, consult books and prototype photos, and work out the variations for yourself. There is no substitute for it! 

[chrisveitch]

I seem to remember that these 2mm NER hopper kits were originally developed by Paul Hodgeson and Bob Jones who knew their prototype well. So I think you can assume the 2mm Handbook advice is correct, as is the instruction sheet originally supplied with the kits, not the possibly erroneous preserved example at Shildon. Incidentally, there was originally an earlier brown plastic version of the body kit, later replaced by a better moulded grey plastic body. And the buffers and springs were at first in lost-way brass, but these proved too difficult to work with (cut off the sprue), so were superceded by white-metal versions.

 

But as ever, do your own research, consult books and prototype photos, and work out the variations for yourself. There is no substitute for it! 

Thanks Phil - sensible advice indeed. I volunteer at Beamish, so I really should have crawled all over one of theirs before I started work on the kit again - I'll need to make a point of it next time there since they seem to have some in pretty original condition, i.e. very rotten. Incidentally, mine are the later grey plastic bodied kits but I don't recall there being any instructions with them (they've been in the "to-do" box for decades rather than years). 

[Caley Jim]

I have an issue of the HMRS Journal which had drawings and photos of these wagons.  I'll see if I can dig it out and post some scans.

 

Jim

[2mm Andy]

I've just had a look at Peter Tatlow's "LNER wagons Part 2 - North Eastern Area" which covers these wagons, and the photos of the P7 hoppers all feature buffers as per the preserved examples mentioned above. I suspect there may be confusion as a result of the 2mm shop renumbering exercise done a few years ago - neither the self-contained or the 4 rib look particularly suitable.

 

My suggestion would be to use the turned brass tapered buffers (2-071, which are unhelpfully TOS on the 2mm website!) with a small square of nickel silver soldered on top to represent the step. That's what I intend doing with the rake of 10 etched diagram P4 hoppers I'm working on at the moment - whether I will still be sane after cutting and fitting 40 tiny squares of nickel silver to the buffers is another matter!

 

In addition to Phil's notes, I believe that the chassis etch for the P7 hopper has been updated at some point to include etched axleboxes/springs.

 

Andy

[Phil Copleston]

Thanks Phil - sensible advice indeed. I volunteer at Beamish, so I really should have crawled all over one of theirs before I started work on the kit again - I'll need to make a point of it next time there since they seem to have some in pretty original condition, i.e. very rotten. Incidentally, mine are the later grey plastic bodied kits but I don't recall there being any instructions with them (they've been in the "to-do" box for decades rather than years). 

 

Chris,

 

I have an original instruction sheet for the NER hopper kits somewhere. I will dig it out, scan for you and post here.

 

Will also take a pic of the buffers originally supplied with these kits. Might be a guide to the intended buffer type if you need to find a substitute... and contemplate the insane mods suggested by Andy! 

[DavidLong]

Alright, I own up, the information in the handbook was provided by me! I used the photos in Tatlow's LNER Standard Designs Volume 4A which are of the LNER produced versions. The photos and, indeed, Peter's drawing, show the use of both 1' 6" 4 rib buffers and the same length self-contained buffers. None of the new buffers in the range are specifically designed for use on pre-1923 vehicles but the NER hoppers are one of those types that was produced both in pre and post-grouping eras. The buffer types used by the pre-grouping companies were many and varied and, as Andy has suggested, the nearest type that we have is the turned brass tapered type. For many of the pre-grouping wagon kits that the Association produces my only real option was to suggest this type but I'm afraid that the pre-grouping production of the 13T hopper passed under my radar!

I should emphasise that the listing in the yearbook is a general guide only and would echo Phil's comment about checking against photographs. Not surprisingly, considering the remit for the buffer project, wagons of the post-1923 period and even more so the post-1948 era have better coverage. For the yearbook I listed six different types to be used across the BR standard van range and a similar number for the Presflo wagon alone.

 

David

[chrisveitch]

Many thanks to all of you for the information and offers - proof, as if it were needed, that t'interweb truly is the repository of all human knowledge.

 

I've been a very minor dabbler in 2mm for many years - my main contribution so far has been irregular trips to NE Area Group meetings to eat their food. These kits literally have been sitting in a box for decades and have become part of me trying to make an effort to actually do some modelling in the scale. One idea is to model them as sold on into colliery/NCB service although I don't know how realistic that is - the NE colliery lines seemed to use a lot of similar but obviously different wagons of their own design and I haven't seen a photo yet of a P7 in this guise. That doesn't mean there aren't any as I haven't looked very hard...

 

Regards,

 

Chris