cheesysmith Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Modern dmu`s, from the 141 upwards, do not have a parking brake to apply. Instead they have a spring loaded parking brake, that when the air is required in the system to release. There is a valve in the cab to apply the brake, usually on the secondmans side, but this is almost never used. you don`t even need to destroy the pressure in the system (pulling the cord) as the parking brake will allpy as the air leaks off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wellington (Salop) used this practice. There is a model of it on the circuit, with authentic "gravity" working. Ed Hi, One of the most well known examples of gravity working for a 'run round' was at Maiden Newton in Dorset where this was done to run round the coach of the Bridport branch train. In this case there was even a specially constructed 'gravity siding' into which the coach was propelled after arrival from Bridport - this siding being constructed as a gradient in order to give the necessary movement to the coach. For some years there was a superb layout based on the operation of Maiden Newton. This was called 'Gravity Siding' and was built and exhibited by the late John Coggins of Bridport Model Railway Club. The layou was extremely cleverly arranged so that the coach, once released in the 'gravity siding' would roll back into the bay platform and come to a stand before hitting the stop block. A layout well worth seeing but now, sadly, I understand no longer in existance since the death of its builder. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hi, One of the most well known examples of gravity working for a 'run round' was at Maiden Newton in Dorset where this was done to run round the coach of the Bridport branch train. In this case there was even a specially constructed 'gravity siding' into which the coach was propelled after arrival from Bridport - this siding being constructed as a gradient in order to give the necessary movement to the coach. For some years there was a superb layout based on the operation of Maiden Newton. This was called 'Gravity Siding' and was built and exhibited by the late John Coggins of Bridport Model Railway Club. The layou was extremely cleverly arranged so that the coach, once released in the 'gravity siding' would roll back into the bay platform and come to a stand before hitting the stop block. A layout well worth seeing but now, sadly, I understand no longer in existance since the death of its builder. Regards The other interesting thing about Maiden Newton were the marks painted on structures alongside the bay to enable the Guard to judge where he had got to as he controlled the gravitation back into the platform. One of these survived right up to the end of the branch notwithstanding various demolitions and alterations over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I recall hearing a story about that, now this is probably pure fiction, but .... here goes:- A similar situation to Maden Newton, where the passenger stock was in a gravity siding. The incoming stock would be propelled up the slope with the guard at the rear, he would set the brake at the uphill end as that was where he was. Then, when ready the guard would release the brake at the uphill end then walk through the corridor stock intending to apply the brake at the lower end, as he could see better at the now 'front' end and control the rolling stock easier. Nothing was moving very fast so he had plenty of time All very neat, until one day a non-corridor coach ended up in the middle of the rake ... The result was obvious, game, set, and smash As I said it's probably 'old-railway-mens-tales' but it makes a neat story! John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I recall hearing a story about that, now this is probably pure fiction, but .... here goes:- A similar situation to Maden Newton, where the passenger stock was in a gravity siding. The incoming stock would be propelled up the slope with the guard at the rear, he would set the brake at the uphill end as that was where he was. Then, when ready the guard would release the brake at the uphill end then walk through the corridor stock intending to apply the brake at the lower end, as he could see better at the now 'front' end and control the rolling stock easier. Nothing was moving very fast so he had plenty of time All very neat, until one day a non-corridor coach ended up in the middle of the rake ... The result was obvious, game, set, and smash As I said it's probably 'old-railway-mens-tales' but it makes a neat story! John Hi, Bournemouth West August 1956. Already mentioned in post 20 above. I guess it just had to happen one day somewhere didnt it !!. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks WM, that will teach me to read back though the posts before setting fingers to keyboard!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We used to gravity shunt at Foxfield until the early 80s. The train would come down Foxfield Bank and stop in the platform on the 1 in 19. All the passengers would de-train and the loco would drop into a short siding then the coach would be dropped past the siding on the handbrake whereupon the loco would emerge from the siding, couple to the coach and draw it back up into the platform. Starting that one coach on a 1 in 19 could definitely be an interesting proposition on a wet day! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reading General Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I loved the description of "vacuum entering the cylinder" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Although technically wrong, I found when teaching engineering that using wrong but easily understood terminology achieved better results. In reality, of course, air is drawn out of both ends of the cylinder. Similarly, I do technical advice for classic car owners, and while it irks to say, for instance, "Undo the 9/16" AF bolt and nut..." when it should be described as a 3/8" UNF setscrew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branksome71B Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I recall hearing a story about that, now this is probably pure fiction, but .... here goes:- A similar situation to Maden Newton, where the passenger stock was in a gravity siding. The incoming stock would be propelled up the slope with the guard at the rear, he would set the brake at the uphill end as that was where he was. Then, when ready the guard would release the brake at the uphill end then walk through the corridor stock intending to apply the brake at the lower end, as he could see better at the now 'front' end and control the rolling stock easier. Nothing was moving very fast so he had plenty of time All very neat, until one day a non-corridor coach ended up in the middle of the rake ... The result was obvious, game, set, and smash As I said it's probably 'old-railway-mens-tales' but it makes a neat story! John Similar happened at Wellington (Salop) in the 50s when the guard found to his dismay the Much Wenlock was formed of 3 coaches instead of the usual 2. The result was guard arriving a little late to apply the handbrake and the Porters Room had a close encounter with bow ended stock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clachnaharry Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The GNSR terminii at Banff and Peterhead both lacked run round loops and used gravity shunting to get the locomotive to the right end of the train. This practice was used on goods trains as well. I can understand that on 1 or 2 coach trains, the brake application required would be fairly easy to judge with practice, but how did it work with goods trains which would vary greatly in lenght and weight? Did they rely solely on the brake van, or would a shunter be involved pinning down wagon brakes? I also wonder what happened if they ever misjudged it and brought the train to a standstill over the points, leaving the locomotive trapped! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I loved the description of "vacuum entering the cylinder" Hi Reading General, Have to agree with you there - its a wonderful way of saying something that makes what is being said very clear to listeners and yet is totally wrong in fact !!. When I was traincrew with BR there would occasionally be a problem with vacuum brakes that hadnt released fully and the guard or driver would often say 'we havnt got enough vacuum'. Not enough of nothing to be pedantic !. As above totally wrong in actual fact yet totally clear to the parties involved. I wonder if there are many other examples from any walk of life where this happens in the same way. Thanks for your post RG - nice to have old memories brought back. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2015 The GNSR terminii at Banff and Peterhead both lacked run round loops and used gravity shunting to get the locomotive to the right end of the train. This practice was used on goods trains as well. I can understand that on 1 or 2 coach trains, the brake application required would be fairly easy to judge with practice, but how did it work with goods trains which would vary greatly in lenght and weight? Did they rely solely on the brake van, or would a shunter be involved pinning down wagon brakes? I also wonder what happened if they ever misjudged it and brought the train to a standstill over the points, leaving the locomotive trapped! Easier, and probably safer, with wagons than with coaches as you have far more available brakepower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I also wonder what happened if they ever misjudged it and brought the train to a standstill over the points, leaving the locomotive trapped! Hi, 'Now where did I put me shunting 'orse' Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 They could use a chain. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Have to agree with you there - its a wonderful way of saying something that makes what is being said very clear to listeners and yet is totally wrong in fact !!. When I was traincrew with BR there would occasionally be a problem with vacuum brakes that hadnt released fully and the guard or driver would often say 'we havnt got enough vacuum'. Not enough of nothing to be pedantic !. As above totally wrong in actual fact yet totally clear to the parties involved. Still, us electrical types can't brag, with all those negative electrons going the opposite way to the current. Worse still, a missing electron in a semiconductor creates a "positive hole". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2015 Gravity shunting (albeit with a little human power to get things moving) is still alive and well on the Manx Electric Railway at Ramsey: (Not my video!) Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've also witnessed gravity shunting in action at Oberammergau, as can be seen here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The Guard informs the Driver he only has 15 inches, the Driver informs the Guard that the Driver would be happy with half of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted February 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2015 Back in the early 1980s, I took a trip to Wick and Thurso using the first train from Inverness, which was a Class 37 plus four passenger coaches and four full brakes (BGs). At Georgemas Junction much shunting saw the train remarshalled with two coaches and two BGs for Thurso, and two of each for Wick. On the approach to Thurso station the train stopped and on putting our heads out, we saw the BGs had been detached from the rear. The loco and two passenger coaches then proceeded into the 'main' platform, and the two BGs followed under gravity power into the bay platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 San Francisco cable cars gravity shunt at the termini with the tracks graded to suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2015 Gravity working was used at Buchanan St. See below "Loose Shunting of Empty Coaching Vehicles" Jim You would not think it necessary to explain that they must be controlled and stopped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2015 You would not think it necessary to explain that they must be controlled and stopped. Of yes it would be. Firstly it says 'by means of the handbrake' - which, apart from anything else, means don't think of using the vacuum. Secondly if any sort of collision (with anything, including the station structure) or rough shunt occurs there are some nice clear words to put on the charge on Form DP1 where it can be said 'On such & date while shunting so & so you failed to control the speed of the detached vehicles resulting in them coming into collision with ... etc ... etc' Simple message - if you don't tell folk to do something you can hardly be critical of them if they don't do it and in turn your instruction will (quite rightly) be criticised for failing to make clear what is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2015 I understand it was the practice at Cowes (Isle of Wight) for the loco to uncouple, run forward, then use the crossover to run round the stock. Having released the air brake using the string, the guard would then release his hand brake and let the stock run towards the stops, using the handbrake to stop the train. the loco in the meantime would have run round/watered/backed onto the train. It was done at Cowes and it was also done at Killin as mentioned earlier. At Cowes (at least) it was most certainly not condoned by "Waterloo" but being so far removed and across the water from the "suits" meant that the IoW railways often did their own thing if it suited them. The network of single lines and the intensive service offered in summer also meant that any time-saving measures which could be used would be used as punctuality was of the essence. Missing a "cross" was unheard of and was missing a ferry connection. In many locations where gravity shunting of coaching stock occurred it was strictly forbidden (as with the fly-shunting of goods wagons) but was regarded as part of the "Right way, wrong way and Rail-way" approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The gravity shunt at Cowes was carried out to the end and staff would often try to stop people photographing it, despite this it can be seen in several film clips on the internet. It wasnt actually nessecary and the platform would hold the train leaving space for loco release, probably done to speed up loading and also put the brake van nearer the parcel office. When first built in 1862 Cowes only had a single track and platform with the run-round being outside the station the other side of a level crossing, at this time gravity shunting was required, legally the railway finished at the crossing, the track beyond into the station platform only being approved as a tramway with locomotive working forbidden. Later the station was rebuilt wiith three platforms and runround between the two main ones, the level crossing being removed. Gravity shunting of the train still carried on though, on at least one occasion carriages ended up on the concourse. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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