CAF to build new LHCS for Caledonian Sleeper

[Talltim]

Video here https://streamable.com/3aadh

Also not new news, but a 73 is going to Velim to test with the coaches.

[phil-b259]

....yes its a bit dirty but if done correctly perfectly safe.

 

And therein lies the problem.

 

Humans are susceptible to making mistakes - be it bashing their head on metalwork, straining their backs swinging buckeyes etc or in the most extreme case suffering fatal crush injuries (the NYMR incident). Obviously most of the time coupling up won't cause an injury, but thats not the same thing as saying it never will.

 

As a society we owe it to our fellow human beings to take advantage of technical improvements that eliminate risk where possible. If we have the technology to prevent the need for persons to go round placing themselves in a potentially dangerous situation - its common sense to use it, particularly on new builds

 

As has been highlighted Eurotunnel, plus EMU / DMU  operators have all recognised the benefits of auto-couplers and there is no excuse for new coaching stock to be any different, particularly as it will in future it is planned to use dedicated locos most of the time that could also be fitted with auto-couplers.

[russ p]

Auto couplers are a good idea as the USA has proved over the last 150 years but we now have too many different coupling's at different heights.

As a man that works on the southern you will appreciate that the very dangerous sounding third rail can be perfectly safe if things are done correctly.

The NYMR incident was tragic but was down to people who weren't actually professional railwaymen if there is such a thing today making lots of errors where in modern management speak the holes in the cheese lined up.

I regularly couple pairs of 37s up ,often with ploughs and I have done for the last 35 years and I've never ever hurt myself and know many many staff in the same position. In fact I don't know anyone who has hurt themselves coupling up but know many including myself that that been hurt down to network rails crap infrastructure maintenance and tripping on vegetation or in my case a badly installed track circuit cable!

Edited August 23, 2017 by russ p

[phil-b259]

As a man that works on the southern you will appreciate that the very dangerous sounding third rail can be perfectly safe if things are done correctly.

 

 

I do understand what you are saying, however I am actually opposed to any more 3rd rail being installed even though I do have to work amongst it - though I admit safety is not the prime driver for this as such. If the Marshlink / North Downs / Uckfield lines ever get electrified, it should be with OHLE, not con rail. Safer for staff AND perhaps more importantly far less of an nuisance for the p-way, or us S&T engineers as con rail causes lots of problems with respect to maintenance and fault finding / rectification.

 

Just because something has traditionally been perceived as 'safe' or 'the best way of doing things' in the past doesn't mean it should be used as justification not to improve when opportunities arise. As financial products say, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns"

 

As someone who has been deeply immersed in engineering thought my academic life, I consider it a duty on the profession not to simply be happy with the status quo but always seek to improve on what went before.

 

Thus I don't see the issue in using auto-couplers on the new sleeper stock - like EMUs they will be formed into sets with each set being split off or added on route. Whats more I believe franchise as specified by Transport Scotland requires the use of dedicated locos that could in theory also be fitted with auto-couplers (no more just sticking any old class 90 on the front), so occasions when adapters have to be used (to facilitate non auto-coupler fitted locos) would be limited.

 

Granted, if we were talking about modifying the Mk3s, and were haulage basically down to whatever the contracted FOC decided they wanted to do, I would say that there are more important things to spend the money on - just as I would say that conversion of existing conductor rail to OHLE is not a wise use of money. However when building something new, it makes perfect sense to adopt the latest technology and best practice - be it coaching stock, electrification, HS2, etc.

[Reorte]

Just because something has traditionally been perceived as 'safe' or 'the best way of doing things' in the past doesn't mean it should be used as justification not to improve when opportunities arise. As financial products say, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns"

 

As someone who has been deeply immersed in engineering thought my academic life, I consider it a duty on the profession not to simply be happy with the status quo but always seek to improve on what went before.

Striking a sensible balance though. You pointed out not being in much of a hurry to change third rail, and similarly leaping on every new thing that's better on paper can lead to the situation we've got - a lot of incompatible systems where once everything could couple to everything else. I'm not saying that's an argument for never changing anything, but it is something that looks like it perhaps should've been considered more than it sometimes is.

[russ p]

The problems with using different coupling systems wouldn't be so bad if there were adaptors to couple to other stock but since the end of BR these have not been provided. All 14x and 15x stocknwere provided with these when new but most have now gone.

An interesting side to this story is that the Mk5s for TPE IS going to have conventional draw gear at least on both ends of the stock

[luckymucklebackit]

The problems with using different coupling systems wouldn't be so bad if there were adaptors to couple to other stock but since the end of BR these have not been provided. All 14x and 15x stocknwere provided with these when new but most have now gone.

An interesting side to this story is that the Mk5s for TPE IS going to have conventional draw gear at least on both ends of the stock

 

Fit them all with NEM pockets, that would sort it,

 

oh wait!!!!!

[Zomboid]

Fit them all with NEM pockets, that would sort it,

 

oh wait!!!!!

We should have standardised on Kaydees decades ago, like our former colonies did.

[Mark Saunders]

The problems with using different coupling systems wouldn't be so bad if there were adaptors to couple to other stock but since the end of BR these have not been provided. All 14x and 15x stocknwere provided with these when new but most have now gone.

An interesting side to this story is that the Mk5s for TPE IS going to have conventional draw gear at least on both ends of the stock

 

The big problem with the adaptors was the coupling had to be removed from the drawbar prior to use and a fitter was required to go with the assisting loco and there was no brake compatibility so the rescued vehicle had no working automatic brake. Far easier to use another unit with compatible coupling and brake!

 

Mark Saunders 

[DavidB-AU]

Caledonian Sleeper coaches ready for testing

 

The first five of the 75 coaches that CAF is building for Caledonian Sleeper services between Scotland and London have arrived at the Velim test centre in the Czech Republic, where they will undergo several weeks of dynamic testing.

 

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/caledonian-sleeper-coaches-ready-for-testing.html

[nightstar.train]

From that article

 

The will be four types of accommodation, with reclining seats, berths, en suite berths and double rooms with toilets and showers.

Seems the pods have been done away with. Double rooms sound good though. I seem to have read somewhere that then couldn't get approval for them, they weren't crash safe or something. Although pods are used on many many aircraft, which have even stricter safety standards. Edited August 26, 2017 by nightstar.train

[The Stationmaster]

Auto couplers are a good idea as the USA has proved over the last 150 years but we now have too many different coupling's at different heights.

As a man that works on the southern you will appreciate that the very dangerous sounding third rail can be perfectly safe if things are done correctly.

The NYMR incident was tragic but was down to people who weren't actually professional railwaymen if there is such a thing today making lots of errors where in modern management speak the holes in the cheese lined up.

I regularly couple pairs of 37s up ,often with ploughs and I have done for the last 35 years and I've never ever hurt myself and know many many staff in the same position. In fact I don't know anyone who has hurt themselves coupling up but know many including myself that that been hurt down to network rails crap infrastructure maintenance and tripping on vegetation or in my case a badly installed track circuit cable!

 

Quite agree Russ and of course more than a few BR staff were killed in shunting incidents involving Buckeye couplers while more were injured in various ways through not handling and checking Buckeyes correctly.  The NYMR incident is, I think, irrelevant in this debate for the very reason you mention and a total lack of one very basic piece of personal safety behaviour which as it happens (from information circulated separately from the various Reports) wasn't even included in that Railway's Rule Book let alone any sort of training in safe working practices which it might have carried out before the incident.

 

As far as coupling incompatibility is concerned it did have its good side as I turned one instance of it into a nice little earner for the operating company I worked as we had the only coupling combination which made it possible to attach an ordinary loco to a certain other operator's rolling stock

[dibber25]

Over on the Rapido thread, Jason is very critical of the British-built Renaissance night sleepers (what was to be Eurostar Night trains) which have serious corrosion problems and leak at the joint between roof and sides. But, as Mike (Stationmaster) pointed out the bodywork and running gear was built in Spain with final assembly at Met Camm, Washwood Heath. I'm not 100% sure but I think that it was at the factory now owned by CAF.

 

Jason is not a fan of the 'Ren' cars. I found them fine when I travelled on 'The Ocean' (Halifax-Montreal) about 5 years back. They certainly ride better than the 62-year-old Budd sleepers used on the 'Canadian'. Isn't the body shell basically a Mk4 and the bogies a Class 158? I guess if the 'Rens' leak and the Mk4s don't, it's probably down to the conversion work which the Canadians carried out. There were some extensive alterations done to create dining cars, seating vehicles and 'coupling adaptor cars' so that a 'Park' class observation car could be tacked on the rear. Some cars have also had disabled access doors cut into the sides. (CJL)

[Reorte]

Talking of couplings in the photos it looks like the coupling is inside the gangway connection.

[Mark Saunders]

Talking of couplings in the photos it looks like the coupling is inside the gangway connection.

 

It provides a protective envelope to keep the weather and dirt out!

[luckymucklebackit]

First Mk V sleeper coaches have arrived in the UK today

 

13:34 6Q72 DOLLANDSM - WEMBLEYYD (Ashford 13:41 6E)
37884 GROG
15101 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF
15301 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 DBC
INT
15002 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF
15302 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF
15001 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF
0 LDS 5 MTYS 190 TONNES 365 FT

 

Jim

[South-East Rail]

Not my photos but worth posting:

https://flic.kr/p/FmY7Dq

https://flic.kr/p/22q97j5

 

Ed

[Richie Kynaston]

Not my photos but worth posting:

https://flic.kr/p/FmY7Dq

https://flic.kr/p/22q97j5

 

Ed

 

Thanks for posting the links

 

First Mk V sleeper coaches have arrived in the UK today

 

13:34 6Q72 DOLLANDSM - WEMBLEYYD (Ashford 13:41 6E)

37884 GROG

15101 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF

15301 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 DBC

INT

15002 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF

15302 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF

15001 ASA 73 99 1 038.000 35 72027 735 PESHQH 89735 SNCF

0 LDS 5 MTYS 190 TONNES 365 FT

 

Jim

 

Jim, you don't happen to have the barrier vehicle details as well do you?

 

Richie

[South-East Rail]

Thanks for posting the links

 

 

Not at all!

 

A couple more (again, not mine!):

 

Kent Sleeper by NIGHTSHIFTWORKER, on Flickr

 

First glimpse by NIGHTSHIFTWORKER, on Flickr

 

Ed

[cal.n]

Caledonian sleeper paths starting to appear between Polmaide and loops at Carnforth, presumably testing/ familiarisation with these things.

 

Pathed as an electric loco, with 80mph running.

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G60143/2018/01/18/advanced

 

Are they much heavier than mk2s and mk3s, a 16 coach train up shap in all weathers is no easy task for any loco.

 

I wonder who will be the first to produce these in model form.

[newbryford]

Supposedly heading north tonight with a pair of 47s.

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R67085/2018/01/15/advanced

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Reorte]

Are they much heavier than mk2s and mk3s, a 16 coach train up shap in all weathers is no easy task for any loco.

IIRC they were promising onboard showers? That'll be a weight of extra water for starters.

[ColinK]

No water needed, just a section where the roof can be rolled back to let the rain in

 

Seriously, water is heavy stuff and where will it go after peope have showered?

[cal.n]

No water needed, just a section where the roof can be rolled back to let the rain in

 

Seriously, water is heavy stuff and where will it go after peope have showered?

 

CRRES (Workshop at West Coast Railways) fitted en suite showers to every berth for the Royal Scotsmans Mk1 pullmans, so so I can't imagine its too much weight. That is a 10 coach train with more showers per passenger than the sleeper so I don't think water storage is an issue. 

[black and decker boy]

Seriously, water is heavy stuff and where will it go after peope have showered?

All passenger stock will have controlled emissions tanks fitted by 2020. All new stock has been so fitted from new for over 20 years (end of BR era).