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CAF to build new LHCS for Caledonian Sleeper


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WNXX posted on Facebook that the Class 67s are to be retained for the sleepers. I'm not a subscriber though some couldn't read the full article. Does anyone know more? I would guess this is until the 73/9s are ready. Maybe GBRf had problems finding enough Class 47s (which I didn't think we're allowed up the West Highland Line anyway).

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Class 47 locos are now permitted between Helensburgh and Fort William, but the restrictions are horrendous (quite similar to a Class 67)

Odd if there has been yet another change as the latest press release from Serco was quite extensive
However, they have suddenly gone quiet with nothing this week, so far

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On the WNXX forum it was reported that DBS had put in a 10% lower bid carrying on using the 67s than Harry Needle had with his 47s. This will run until the 73s start (or until it all changes again!)

I expect DBS are quite desperate to find work for the 67s. They've lost the Chiltern gig, I read recently that the loco hauled Fife circle might be changing over to DRS, lost the sleepers, and of course all the mail traffic they were built for has gone. As far as I can think that only leaves the thunderbird duties on the ECML for them, and possibly the FGW sleepers if the 57s continue to be unreliable. So that's 25 expensive locos with work for only two or three.

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I expect DBS are quite desperate to find work for the 67s. They've lost the Chiltern gig, I read recently that the loco hauled Fife circle might be changing over to DRS, lost the sleepers, and of course all the mail traffic they were built for has gone. As far as I can think that only leaves the thunderbird duties on the ECML for them, and possibly the FGW sleepers if the 57s continue to be unreliable. So that's 25 expensive locos with work for only two or three.

 

The Fife circle DRS route learners have already started.....

Network Rail is calling upon more 67's as the yellow DVT's are commissioned - I think 4 or 5 locos will be the eventual requirement. (Not quite 25 though!)

 

Cheers,

Mick

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I expect DBS are quite desperate to find work for the 67s. They've lost the Chiltern gig, I read recently that the loco hauled Fife circle might be changing over to DRS, lost the sleepers, and of course all the mail traffic they were built for has gone. As far as I can think that only leaves the thunderbird duties on the ECML for them, and possibly the FGW sleepers if the 57s continue to be unreliable. So that's 25 expensive locos with work for only two or three.

 

Additionally, some 67s are allocated to ATW and some are used fairly regularly on charter trains.

 

Ed

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But even if you have to be physically present at the meeting, does it really need to start that early that the first train from Edinburgh would not get you there?

So afternoon meetings only..? Normally the only way these face to face meetings work is if you can maximise the time you have at the meeting.

 

As it stands, I have frequent "most of day" business meetings in London (my company is based in Dundee) with the other shareholders of the publisher that my company is a part owner of - we're the only shareholder north of Liverpool and the publisher is based in London so it makes sense in the main part to meet there.

 

I only travel down by train if using the sleeper and then only if I would be in a situation that I would be needing an overnight stay in any case. If down for the day only, I always fly and Edinburgh to City is the most convenient way of doing it. Take London out of the equation only then does a non-sleeper train begin to factor into the viability of the trip.

Edited by frobisher
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Most meetings I go to commence between 10:00 and 11:00
This means you need to have arrive, signed in, setup at least 20 to 30 minutes before that

A few times I have scraped by using the 04:25 Glasgow to Euston
I then travel back on the 16:30 Euston to Glasgow
The saving on accomodation allows me to travel First Class, so enjoy breakfast (you actually get two southbound) and a light evening snack (wouldn't call it a meal any more)

However, once the southbound service was late running and all kind of questions were asked; why not travel down the day before, flight, etc

More recently I had a meeting which started at 08:00
There was no way a flight would have been suitable, the only options were travelling down the day before or the sleeper
The cost between the two was almost identical, so planned on the sleeper
Sadly with the ticket options I had to return on the sleeper
As a result I travelled down on the last Glasgow to Euston service the day before, again allowing me to upgrade to First Class

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Here are details for the 5 coach types :

 

Seated coach (11, 9-1-1) -
2 toilets 
5 sets of 2+1 seating
4 sets of 2+1 seating
2 sets of 2+0 seating storage cabinet
Train Managers office

Train Crew storage area, bicycle storage, and safety equipment
Total seating 31 (30 plus 1 wheelchair space)

 

Pod coach (10, 8-1-1) -
2 toilets
8 twin pods
8 single pods
Total pods 24

Sleeper coach (31, 30-1-0) -
2 toilets
3 berths (single or twin)
2 en-suite
2 en-suite
4 berths (single or twin)
Total 7 berths / 4 en-suite

Combined coach (11, 10-1-1) -
1 disabled access toilet
1 toilet
1 disabled access berth
5 berths (single or twin)
3 twin pods
2 single pods
Total 8 pods / 1 disabled access berth / 5 berths

Club Car (11, 9-1-1) -
2 toilets
Train Stewards office  
Catering area
6 bar stools
3 twin seats at fixed table
4 quad seats at fixed table
1 quad seats at fixed table in booth

Bad news, the Club Car windows do NOT line up with the tables!
 

Note the complete lack of areas for the train crew, other than offices
All meals, food and drink are prepared from the Lounge car

The numbers XX(XX-X-X)
Number built, number in service - maintenance - spare

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So what will the rake formations be? I am guessing (for a half set)

 

Seated coach

Club car

Pod coach

4 x sleeper coach

Combined coach

 

Working from the numbers above it looks like the Aberdeen and Fort Bill section will have two combined coaches and three sleepers. One combined coach for each destination. If they are keeping the current set rotation so each half set visits each destination once a week then that will require quite a bit of shunting at Wembly each day.

 

The combined coach is a good idea, it will allow pod passengers (pod people, lol) to get to Fort Bill without having to change coach in the middle of the night at Edinburgh. From the numbers given above it would indicate that that will be the only pod coach heading up the WHL, and the rest of the portion will be a seated coach and club car, as currently.

 

It's bad the club car seats don't line up, considering what scenic routes they're going to be running on. Maybe it's not too late for a design change? Depends of course on how badly they don't line up, have you seen plans mjkerr?

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So what will the rake formations be?

Seated coach

Club car

Pod coach

4 x sleeper coach

Combined coach

There are only 30 sleeper coaches for use

 

Edinburgh - Fort William

+ Club Car - Seated

 

Euston - Fort William

Sleeper - Combined +

 

Euston - Aberdeen

Sleeper - Sleeper - Club Car - Seated - Pod - Combined

 

Euston - Inverness / Glasgow / Edinburgh

Sleeper - Sleeper - Sleeper - Sleeper - Club Car - Seated - Pod - Combined

 

Some other info :

Coach maximum speed 110mph

Coach service interval 250,000 miles

Coach failure interval 1,500,000 miles (passengers moved to another coach or another train)

Train failure interval 5,000,000 miles (one or more coaches removed from train in formation in passenger service)

External paint interval 12 years

 

Seated coach :

All seats fitted with 230v socket 

 

Revised boarding times (within 18 months) -

Aberdeen :

Boarding 20:00

Departure 21:43

 

Edinburgh :

Boarding 21:00

Departure 23:40

 

Fort William

Boarding 19:20

Departure 19:50

 

Glasgow :

Boarding 21:00

Departure 23:40

 

Inverness :

Boarding 19:45

Departure 20:44

 

Euston (Inverness) :

Boarding 20:00

Departure 21:15

 

Euston (Edinburgh) :

Boarding 21:45

Departure 23:50

 

Stations :

Live totems to be installed within 2 years

Capable of rail information and live video to help centre 24 hours per day

 

Partnerships and arrangments within 2 years :

Hotel arrangements at Crianlarich and Aviemore, for use of facilities

Showers to be installed at Perth, Dundee and Stirling

Waiting Room and Toilets to be installed (if not already available) at Dundee, Perth, Motherwell, Carstairs, Leuchars, Kirkcaldy, Inverkeithing, Aviemore, Kingussie, Newtonmore, Carrbridge, Dalwhinnie, Blair Atholl, Pitlochry, Gleneagles, Dunblane, Stirling, Falkirk Grahamston, Crianlarich, Ardlui, Arrochar & Tarbet

 

Coaches :

Each coach will be named after famous Scots (from 2018)

Library and on board games available in Lounge Car and Club Car

Special themed evenings in Club Car (from 2018)

Children meals served in Club Car at no cost to passenger

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It's bad the club car seats don't line up, considering what scenic routes they're going to be running on. Maybe it's not too late for a design change? Depends of course on how badly they don't line up, have you seen plans mjkerr?

Yes, the press release is currently under embargo

Most of the bays aren't that bad, but two of the seats in the Club car appear to have restricted views

However, the seated coach is even worse, but that is due to the all airline style seat configuration

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Although if you had to choose one type of train that you couldn't see out of the windows on, one that runs at night would be the best option

The only specification is that when seated (seat, Pod or Club Car) is that the seat has a view of the horizon

From what I can work out, this is the case in every seat, although with some that view is restricted but you would still be able to see the horizon!

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You know how pages back we were all arguing over how many body shell variants there'd be? Looking at those diagrams I make it five, all the coaches have substantially different window layouts. The club car and pod car are closest in design, the club car just has three windows filled in so maybe they can share a body shell through clever glazing.

 

Cool looking coaches though. I want a model of them, now please.

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Interesting that there appears to be no accommodation for 'sleeping car attendants' (or whatever they are now called) - this imples something of change to both 'meet & greet' arrangements as well as the morning cuppa in your cabin (presumably that will cease or has it already?).  

 

More interesting tho' is that presumably the fire monitoring will all be concentrated at a single point which seems to mean that each section including a sleeping car (and ? a pod car?) will have to include either a seated vehicle or a club car as they appear to be the only vehicles with any sort of staff accommodation.  Or has the post-Taunton requirement for very comprehensive fire etc monitoring been dropped?

 

The drawing seems to imply that the doors might slide externally or are they hinged?

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Interesting that there appears to be no accommodation for 'sleeping car attendants' (or whatever they are now called) - this imples something of change to both 'meet & greet' arrangements as well as the morning cuppa in your cabin (presumably that will cease or has it already?)

This is one of the questions I submitted to Serco Caledonian Sleeper, but they did not answer the question directly, only that all staff accomodation was provided in the Seated Coach and Club Car

Also note that one of the toilets in the Seated Coach is for public use, the other is for staff use

 

One of the down sides with the new rolling stock is the withdrawal of at-berth breakfast for all passengers

First Class ticket holders will get a breakfast included, served in either the Club Car or their berth

All other passengers can pre-purchase or purchase subject to availability on boarding, but they will be served in the Club Car

 

All the staff are based in the Club Car

There is a small storage locker in each sleeper coach for staff equipment, but that is it!

 

More interesting tho' is that presumably the fire monitoring will all be concentrated at a single point which seems to mean that each section including a sleeping car (and ? a pod car?)

At the moment the fire alarm control panel is in the Lounge Car, each coach has its own monitoring system

Nothing changes with this respect

 

The drawing seems to imply that the doors might slide externally or are they hinged?

Yes, the doors are similar to Mark 4 coaches and are external plug doors
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More interesting tho' is that presumably the fire monitoring will all be concentrated at a single point which seems to mean that each section including a sleeping car (and ? a pod car?) will have to include either a seated vehicle or a club car as they appear to be the only vehicles with any sort of staff accommodation.  Or has the post-Taunton requirement for very comprehensive fire etc monitoring been dropped?

 

The ITT requirement was for a central monitoring point.  No idea what Serco's solution proposes.

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