Golden Arrow/1951 Pullmans

[5Bel]

HI All,

 

I have always wanted to model the Golden Arrow Pullmans, but there have never been any models or kits available to do so. I am not counting the Hornby or Lima versions! Rather than just relivery one of the current models I am in the process of modifying four coaches to represent the prototypes more accurately. A few years ago I aquired these models for less than a tenner each from Modelfair with the intention of doing this project. I have completed one, Carina/S307S in reverse blue/grey. One is to become Car 208 in reverse blue/grey, another will become Pegasus/Nightcap Bar in standard blue/grey and lastly a second class parlour will become Car 35 in Pullman livery. First up is Carina/S307S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This coach is converted from a First class KItchen car. The original windows were removed and replaced with Replica items. They are virtually a straight swap, just a little bit of surgery to get them to fit. The oval toilet windows were made into the rectangular shape. The most challenging bit of the conversion is the roof ends, achieved by carefully cutting a slot on top of the doors and putting in some plastic strip to continue the cantrail. The roof was then built up using Milliput. New doors were fashioned from thin brass sheet. The bogies are from MJT with Hornby wheels moved out to the correct bogie centre measurements. MJT corridor connectors were fitted. The couplings have been replaced with Gutzhold items, but I have now worked out a way in which I can keep the original mechanism for Pegasus/Nightcap Bar. Transfers are from Replica and HMRS. Dimensions were taken from the Railway Modeller article on Orion.

 

Next is Pegasus/Nightcap Bar. This coach left the Golden Arrow in the mid sixties, but went on to run on other regions of BR and I thought it would be an interesting project. It started out as a second class Parlour car and is intended to be a representation only as window spacings are slightly out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Three of the windows have been blanked out and also one of the toilet windows. You can see the methods used in the creation of S307S with regard to the roof in some of the photos. This is very much a work in progress as is the third one S208S.

 

 

 

Hornby helpfully provide S208S in its earlier incarntion as Leona, but by the time I am modelling it the coach has been converted into a Brake parlour and the matchboard sides had been plated over. I have filled the matchboarding with green filler and remodelled the end doors. I think I have made the toilet windows too big on this model, but it is at the very early stages. The fourth model will probably be of car 35 as converted with rectangular toilet windows and should be a nice quick conversion. I say probably because depending on the success of Pegasus the donor coach may become Aries. I am on the lookout for a cheap First class Parlour to become Pheonix, which will require the roof, door and window mods doing but I should be able to keep Hornbys' Pullman livery intact. I would like to finish one in Pullman Blue/Grey as on the Brighton Belle but there are no transfers available for this livery. Overall I am very pleased with Carina/S307S as it is not something you see modelled very often, if ever. After doing all this work I hope I have prompted Hornby into releasing them in a couple of years!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Andrew F]

Great work Ian. I was waiting to see when this project would return. I'm doing the same to a rake of Hornby Pullman's and plan to do the Nightcap bar too but in reverse livery...and use the HMRS transers on sheet 15. I think your standard blue/grey coach was the only model I could find on the net and I used the Replica Mk1 window pane idea from that.

 

I've used the old Mopak transfers for the 'Golden arrow' in the centre of the Blue/Grey coaches. There's a thick carrier film that my varnish has failed to cover. I may have the lettering for one more coach if you are just doing one; I'll have a look. Strangely in the coach numbers in that set, no zero's were included; the only digit that each coach possessed. The etched G/A / Fleche coach plaques are huge too. I'm on the look out for Hornby boards.

 

The MJT Gresley bogies look well. Will you be retaining the lights for the table lamps? I'm using a lot of licence with my interiors and keeping them single seats down each side. I'm pretty sure they were converted to 2 + 1 when they repainted they blue and grey.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[5Bel]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for the comments. At the moment I am going to re-use the interiors as they are, the one for Pegasus will be modified because there is a huge bit of plastic strip behind the blanked off windows. The only thing I need to do now is put some MJT curtains in. I never realised Mopok did these transfers, I know Wrenn made some in dry print form and I had some many years ago but thes were lost somewhere in my dad's loft!! It would be good of there were some up to date ones made available. You may be able to get the Golden Arrow boards from Peters Spares, I haven't checked .Be good to see some pics of your models. Once again thanks for the comments.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

Edited February 13, 2015 by 5Bel

[The Fatadder]

The work on the roof looks great, I have a pair of ex 1951 (rebuilt with oval toilet windows) to model for my vsoe set. Thinking of bringing it up the queue now...

[pete_mcfarlane]

Nice models, but doesn't that reversed grey/blue livery look awful on a traditional Pullman?

[Andrew F]

   I kind of like it Pete. It's the 60's imposing itself on the tasteful 20's. A livery more suited to modern air conditioned coaches. BR soon realised it looked wrong and painted them in the standard livery which doesn't really suit them either. The Golden Arrow logo's are particularly nasty; a wild western theme that dogged the late 60's and early 70's along with side burns, keg beer, brutalism and coloured acrylic seaside fun, ie perfect! Reverse BR livery reminds me of the SRN4 BR Hovercraft too; probably why I like it. It could all be combined in model form.

 

Andy

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

I like the reverse livery, but it does make the coach look very slab slided. I have decided to put car 208 on hold for a while and use the underframe for S307S, retaining the Hornby close coupling mechanism. The work needed was more straightforward than I thought it would be, only taking about an hour.

 

The difference between the 10ft and 8ft 6ins bogie centres.

 

Bogie centres marked on the underframe.

 

Modification of the Hornby keeper plate. Original on left.

 

Reduction of the Hornby pivot, with cutout to clear the bogie pivot screw.

 

Hornby keeper plate and MJT bogie mounting plate combined.

 

Keeper plate and bogie mounting plate re fitted to chassis.

 

Body and chassis reunited.

 

When I got the coaches the couplings had been crudely removed so I will need to get either some new Hornby cam assemblies or the Keen replacements. You may be able to use modified Hornby Gresley bogies to do this conversion and it will be cheaper than MJT bogies. I will look into this when doing the underframe for Pegasus.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

A quick update on Pegasus/Nightcap bar. I have finished the filling and smoothing of the windows and made the new doors. The doors are made from brass shim with the windows cut out using the Peco drawing for Orion as a template. I also put the roof details on, then realised after spraying the undercoat that I have left off the rainstrips and roof board clips. Still it gives me something to do!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The body is starting to look the part now. I am going to attempt to use Hornby Gresley bogies for the underframe and retain the Hornby close coupling mechanism.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

A quick update on the Pullmans. Carina now has it's third set of bogies,following the purchase of spare Hornby close coupling mechanisms from Peters Spares. I have followed the Hornby pattern with a cut out in the bogie stretcher to get the mech to work correctly.

 

Comparison between original and new bogies.

 

New Hornby mechanism fitted.

 

All working smoothly, please excuse my left thumb!

 

I am now a lot happier with the way the coach has turned out and now it can be used in rakes with RTR couplings. Also from Peter's Spares i bought a pair of Hornby Gresley bogies to fit under The Nightcap Bar. Fitting these was really easy, with the addded bonus of keeping the original close coupling mecanism.

 

Fitting the bogie pivot.

 

Modified bogie on the left.

 

Bogie in situ.

 

Both coaches together.

 

I think the Hornby bogie looks a bit undernourished compared to the MJT sides, but they are models of a different type. I may end up getting some more MJT ones.

 

Finally for this post, something to pull them.

 

 

 

A DC Kits 71. I am trying to get the parts for a Bachmann Warship inside!! The motor won't fit so I am using a Mashima alternative. Just a word of warning to Warship owners, the chassis on my model (Avenger in BR Blue) has warped along the lines of the N class footplate. I will post some pics of the warping next time.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

Edited March 3, 2015 by 5Bel

[Andrew F]

Nice work with the Pegasus bar car Ian. Could you find a Gresley buffet interior for the bar? They look similar from what I've seen on the net (doubtful I'd get to see it for real)

   I prefer the MJT bogies to the Hornby; they just seem more hefty and have better depth but I guess it's down to using that cam system. I've just assembled mine with Genesis sides and Hornby tops/mounting and cam. The Genesis sides are pretty crude though but they do the job and worked out at 2 pounds a coach. The total weight is something worth considering as well. From your earlier post I gleaned that MJT do curtains and when I looked I saw they were also white metal castings. Have you got these yet? How do you think they will sit with the Replica glazing and will the coaches be too heavy?

   The 71 is a nice piece of kit isn't it?

[davesol]

I admire your progress on these conversions.  The conversions to the '1951/2' pullmans is something I too am considering.. However one query is that the windows appear shallower on these cars (pullman designation, not coaches) as the pictures show a cream band above and bellow the opening.  Is this correct or shall I wait on "Aries" returning to KESR so I can attack with a tape measure.  Do drawing exist for these later cars?

[Andrew F]

Do you mean there doesn't appear enough of a gap between the top of the windows and the roof or the windows appear too high or something? This is clear if you do the lining on a blue and grey coach. I think I concluded that the window heights were similar to other Pullmans but the Hornby model was not quite right.

   These conversions will always be a bit of a compromise as there are so many differences between the 51's and Hornby's model.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[5Bel]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the comments, the windows are of differing sizes, the later cars being smaller. I have used the Railway Modeller drawing for Orion for my 1951 conversions and Modellers Backtrack for the earlier cars. There seems to be about 1mm difference between the different types of cars, I have only just realised myself!! Andy I will be carving up the interior of Pegasus to get the approximate layout and eventually will replace the Hornby Gresley bogies with the heavy duty MJT ones. The MJT curtains fit well inside the Replica windows and I have used them in various MK1 based models. They don't add much weight to the model either which is good. The 71 is indeed a very good model, with some of the best grille work I have seen. There a quite a few extra details that you can put on if you wish, a process I am going through at the moment. I will have to wait how it compares to the two new RTR ones due soon. Also now I have started these Pullman conversions, Hornby will bring them out as RTR models to compliment their MN and 71!

 

Cheers for now, Ian

Edited March 11, 2015 by 5Bel

[Hilux5972]

Hi Ian

 

Which issues of modellers backtrack and Railway Modeller did you use for the Pullman drawings reference?

 

Thanks

[johnb1642]

Great Job. I too am modelling Carina, but in N-gauge. This is an inspiration.

[johnb1642]

May I ask where you obtained the drawings? They are much better than the ones I am using.

[Hilux5972]

They are from an issue of Railway Modeller. June 2011. There's an article about Pecoramas Pullman coach, Orion.

[johnb1642]

Thank you.

[5Bel]

Hi John and Hilux,

 

Sorry for the delay in replying. The Railway Modeller was indeed June 2011 and the Modellers Backtrack is from Aug-Sep 1991. I intend to revisit these Pullmans again to correct the window size but this is a way off in the future. Hopefully we shall see some from Hornby before then!

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[Gibbo675]

Hi Ian,

 

Lovely work there on your U-Type Pullmans, I have been known to cut and shut the old Hornby Pullmans into various K-types including a slightly short 5Bel set, (Rule1). All I need to do now is apply the lining to my coaches although doing the five cars of the 5Bel set sent me cross eyed.

 

Gibbo.

[5Bel]

Hi Gibbo,

 

Thanks for the comment, I am trying a different way to the 1951 Pullmans. I found two Wrenn Aries bodies in the loft while I was clearing it for our temporary house move and wondered if I could use these. They are the correct shape, have the correct size windows so I thought why not!

 

 

It's currently in the shed with a coat of primer on to see how well the cut and shut has worked. If it is OK then Carina may lose her underframe and windows to this model.

 

Stay safe, Ian.