Bachmann 009 Skarloey Railway range

[cornelius]

The Narrow Planet "TR Nº1 'slimline' detailing kit" will comprise of:

 

3D printed replacement cylinders and etched nickel silver motion.

3D printed smokebox door (kindly provided by CW Railways as noted above)

Etched brass nameplates, works plates and number plates.

 

Planned price is £12 for the set, we are aiming to release it at Narrow Gauge South West in Shepton Mallet on Feb 20th and it will be listed on the website at the same time.

 

Some progress on the test build:

 

 

http://shop.narrowplanet.co.uk

[phil gollin]

.

 

How easy are the original smokebox and cylinders to take off ?

[daniel11]

.

 

How easy are the original smokebox and cylinders to take off ?

 

They are both fairly easy to remove. The smokebox has a small plastic tab on the right hand side clipping it in place, so it you push a small screwdriver between the face and loco on the right hand side it should pop straight off. The cylinders are held on by two screws on the underside of the loco and come off if you undo these screws.

[Ryde-on-time]

Bachmann have made their 2016 announcement regarding their Thomas range.

 

For 009 they have announced a model of Rheneas and slate wagons

 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,31660.0.html

[Paul.Uni]

Wouldn't surprise me if the wagon is the announced Peco model and the loads are those in the Bachmann Scenecraft model 44-579.

[hartleymartin]

Bachmann have made their 2016 announcement regarding their Thomas range.

 

For 009 they have announced a model of Rheneas and slate wagons

 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,31660.0.html

Rheneas! YES!!!

[Edge]

Managed to locate a few american sources of these engines:

 

http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/product/68292/NARROW-GAUGE-SKARLOEY/ - remarkable price of $82.99 (about £59.00 at todays exchange rates) not including international shipping costs (charged at cost plus $2)

 

http://www.oakridgehobbies.com/Bachmann-trains-58601-hon30-ho-scale-thomas-friends-locomotive-engine-skarloey.html - $95.59

 

http://www.hobbylinc.com/Bachmann-t-f-narrow-gauge-skarloey-diecast-ho-scale-model-train-diesel-locomotive-58601 - $103.04

 

Hope this helps some of you out there - although caveat emtor guys, as these models will likely be sold without any sort of guarantee.

 

These deals are certainly better than the £100 upwards prices already being commanded on eBay

[Edge]

Nicholas Smith has now sold out of the engines (at $82.99 i'm hardly suprised), and for info I'm being charged about $33 for international shipping. This seems to be about the going rate for all suppliers that I have spoken to in the USA

[andyram]

Just found this thread. A Skarloey model that is advertised as running on N gauge track sounds like a 009 model to me. If that is the case I feel another layout idea coming on.

[daniel11]

Just is case anyone is interested and hasn't seen the thread on NGRM I have produced some decals for the Bachmann Skarloey and am selling them at £4.50 + £2 postage a set.

 

http://www.dtbmodels.ml

 

I'm also doing decals for the black livery of Talyllyn if anyone is interested.

Edited February 24, 2016 by daniel11

[BassTromboneMelton]

It was confirmed that the slate wagons are not PECO toolings.  I think Bachmann wanted to have some rolling stock available with the Skarloey model so they paid PECO to use their tooling.  That explains the $63 price tag.  The new slate wagons are $30.  They seem to be based off the over-sized versions on the show.  No production models yet, but Bachmann USA usually model their Thomas stock accurately to what is represented on the show. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by BassTromboneMelton

[stonetown]

Thank you for the information regarding were the slate wagons will come from!

 

Bachmann USA usually model their Thomas stock accurately to what is represented on the show. 

 

So far not in the case of the narrow gauge range, at least Skarloey is, as I mentioned earlier in this topic, to my joy modeled after the real Talyllyn, not after one of his TV counterparts.

Edited February 25, 2016 by stonetown

[Synch]

Thank you for the information regarding were the slate wagons will come from!

 

 

So far not in the case of the narrow gauge range, at least Skarloey is, as I mentioned earlier in this topic, to my joy modeled after the real Talyllyn, not after one of his TV counterparts.

 

He actually is modeled after the TVS counterpart, but the current series which is CGI.  For the CGI Skarloey engines the actual Talyllyn engines were 3D scanned for the show and as a result are fully accurate.

[stonetown]

I´m sorry, but he is not. It´s possible that the real loco was scanned for the show, but then it was surely heavily redesigned and simplified as well. Because at the end of the day the CGI model misses a LOT of details (e.g. most of the rivets), which are surprisingly present on the Bachmann model. In addition some proportions and details (e.g. of the bufferbeam and the buffers themselves) are represented quite wrong by the CGI model but are actually accurate on the Bachmann model. All that implies - except for the livery and the face of course - the real Talyllyn as Bachmanns prototype, not the CGI model. Please study applicable pictures for yourself and you will see, what I´m writing about. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by stonetown

[Steven B]

The more details there are on the CGI loco, the longer it will take to render. Reducing the detail level will mean the animation is completed quicker and is therefore less expensive.

 

I still struggle to understand why Bachmann can't release a faceless model of this in the UK as a model of Talyllyn. They sell a pannier tank engine that's not Duck, an class 08 that's not Diesel, or an Ivatt 2MT that's not Arthur.

 

How can HIT lay claim to the UK rights for a loco that existed long before Rev Awdry was born?

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Steven B

[Andrew Young]

He actually is modeled after the TVS counterpart, but the current series which is CGI. For the CGI Skarloey engines the actual Talyllyn engines were 3D scanned for the show and as a result are fully accurate.

Were they? Hadn't heard of any scanning before the appearance of Bachmann last year. Which makes me doubt your claim.

 

Andrew

Edited February 26, 2016 by Andrew Young

[Moxy]

 

I still struggle to understand why Bachmann can't release a faceless model of this in the UK as a model of Talyllyn. They sell a pannier tank engine that's not Duck, an class 08 that's not Diesel, or an Ivatt 2MT that's not Arthur.

 

How can HIT lay claim to the UK rights for a loco that existed long before Rev Awdry was born?

 

 

It's nothing to do with the prototype or the age of it, but who holds the relevant licence to produce toy versions in which market.  Hornby hold the licence in the UK, so no-one else is allowed to sell TTTE related trains here.

 

Bachmann hold the licence for the USA and they tried selling their TTTE standard gauge range here in the UK (without faces) under the 'Junior' label a few years ago.  That range had to be withdrawn following a legal challenge from Hornby, so given that previous experience I'm not really surprised Bachmann haven't released a Tal-y-llyn here.

 

I too would like to see Bachmann's narrow gauge range available in prototype form, but I suspect that would result in a similar legal challenge from Hornby, which benefits nobody (except possibly the copyright lawyers).

[Steven B]

Bachmann hold the licence for the USA and they tried selling their TTTE standard gauge range here in the UK (without faces) under the 'Junior' label a few years ago.  That range had to be withdrawn following a legal challenge from Hornby, so given that previous experience I'm not really surprised Bachmann haven't released a Tal-y-llyn here.

 

I too would like to see Bachmann's narrow gauge range available in prototype form, but I suspect that would result in a similar legal challenge from Hornby, which benefits nobody (except possibly the copyright lawyers).

 

Surely a Bachmann model of of Talyllyn or Dolgoch would be just that, not a model of Skarloey or Rheneas. Do Bachmann stop Hornby selling 14xx, Terriers or A3s in the USA?

 

I dread to think what would happen if Hornby released a model of a tube train - would Bachmann take them to court because it looks vaguely like something from Undergroun Ernie?

 

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Moxy]

Surely a Bachmann model of of Talyllyn or Dolgoch would be just that, not a model of Skarloey or Rheneas. Do Bachmann stop Hornby selling 14xx, Terriers or A3s in the USA?

 

I dread to think what would happen if Hornby released a model of a tube train - would Bachmann take them to court because it looks vaguely like something from Undergroun Ernie?

 

 

The problem with a Bachmann 'Tal-y-llyn' is that it would be produced from a tooling designed for a TTTE character, which I think was the technicality on which Hornby won the last legal challenge.  The Bachmann 'Junior' range didn't look anything TTTE characters when they were on sale here, they were just generic industrial shunters - that didn't stop Hornby's legal action.

 

If Hornby were selling their locos as TTTE characters in the USA, then yes, Bachmann would stop them.  If they are selling them as A3's or 14XX that is fine, those designs are not TTTE and not covered by these (admittedly somewhat ridiculous) licensing arrangements.

 

If Hornby made a tube train and tried to sell it as Underground Ernie, then again, licensing rights come into play because Bachmann hold the UE rights, otherwise no.

 

Bachmann 'Skarloeys' can be had in this country if you really want a 'Tal-y-llyn' - there are several companies producing conversion kits, including Narrow Planet further up this thread, replacement 3D printed smokebox doors and even decal sets to produce different versions of the loco.  Whilst you can't buy the loco direct from Bachmann US, they will supply their dealers in the US and Europe, who are mostly quite happy to sell Bachmann products to UK based customers for their own personal use.  (What was I saying about ridiculous licensing arrangements?...)

 

I really hope that you are right and I'm wrong, and that Bachmann can find a way of selling a 'Tal-y-llyn' version, there is certainly a demand for it in this country, comment on some narrow gauge forums suggest that most of the first batch have been sold outside America, with a fair proportion ending up with modellers here in the UK, hence the cottage industries here providing the conversion kits.  I doubt we will see it though, I think Hornby will invoke their UK licensing rights to block it.  Who knows, maybe this will provoke Hornby into making their own 009 TTTE range !

[Butler Henderson]

Its the TTTE licensing that prevents Bachmann selling TTTE in the UK, equally Hornby cannot sell TTTE in the USA.

[Dunsignalling]

The problem with a Bachmann 'Tal-y-llyn' is that it would be produced from a tooling designed for a TTTE character, which I think was the technicality on which Hornby won the last legal challenge.  The Bachmann 'Junior' range didn't look anything TTTE characters when they were on sale here, they were just generic industrial shunters - that didn't stop Hornby's legal action.

 

If Hornby were selling their locos as TTTE characters in the USA, then yes, Bachmann would stop them.  If they are selling them as A3's or 14XX that is fine, those designs are not TTTE and not covered by these (admittedly somewhat ridiculous) licensing arrangements.

 

If Hornby made a tube train and tried to sell it as Underground Ernie, then again, licensing rights come into play because Bachmann hold the UE rights, otherwise no.

 

Bachmann 'Skarloeys' can be had in this country if you really want a 'Tal-y-llyn' - there are several companies producing conversion kits, including Narrow Planet further up this thread, replacement 3D printed smokebox doors and even decal sets to produce different versions of the loco.  Whilst you can't buy the loco direct from Bachmann US, they will supply their dealers in the US and Europe, who are mostly quite happy to sell Bachmann products to UK based customers for their own personal use.  (What was I saying about ridiculous licensing arrangements?...)

 

I really hope that you are right and I'm wrong, and that Bachmann can find a way of selling a 'Tal-y-llyn' version, there is certainly a demand for it in this country, comment on some narrow gauge forums suggest that most of the first batch have been sold outside America, with a fair proportion ending up with modellers here in the UK, hence the cottage industries here providing the conversion kits.  I doubt we will see it though, I think Hornby will invoke their UK licensing rights to block it.  Who knows, maybe this will provoke Hornby into making their own 009 TTTE range !

The excellent Bachmann Junior 0-4-0ST was so obviously Percy in drag that it would be impossible to ignore it.

 

However, Percy is a wholly fictitious creation (AFAIK); I think Hornby would have a much weaker case in challenging a model of a readily identifiable prototypical loco.

 

Of course, it would have been easy to forestall any problems, simply by releasing Tal-y-llyn first, possibly through Peco rather than under the Bachmann brand.

 

John  

Edited February 26, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[PaulRhB]

This page covers more of the licensing details including how the Bluebell and TR have been able to basically ignore the TtheT licensing because they have the real engines as acknowledged in the books. The only concession from the TR is a pink face instead of grey.

Producing it as Talyllyn as it's an accurate scanned model of the real loco not the TV version won't infringe the license.

http://www.sodor-island.net/daysoutwiththomas.html

[Coryton]

The problem with a Bachmann 'Tal-y-llyn' is that it would be produced from a tooling designed for a TTTE character, which I think was the technicality on which Hornby won the last legal challenge.  The Bachmann 'Junior' range didn't look anything TTTE characters when they were on sale here, they were just generic industrial shunters - that didn't stop Hornby's legal action.

 

I presume - or at least hope - that the issue was not that the tooling was designed for a TTTE character, but that it was based on the models/CGI from the TV series.

 

Given that this model is based on a real engine, to prevent Bachmann from selling a Talyllyn model in the UK, Hornby/HIT would have to argue that Bachmann had lost their rights to do so by marketing it as Skarloey outside the UK.

 

This would then mean that either another company could do so but Bachmann couldn't, or that by selling it as Skarloey, they have prevented anyone from selling Tallyllyn in the UK. Neither seems a particular tenable view.

[PaulRhB]

Yes the juniors weren't based on real locos so they infringed it on a technicality. Skarloey is scanned from the real engine it's only the livery that is covered. The models of Stepney and Flying Scotsman similarly can't be stopped as it's a real livery on a real loco and they feature in the books.

There is no issue with using the model as Talyllyn

[stewartingram]

I would have thought that the following logic could apply:

 

TR have the real loco.

The character loco is in the books, based upon the real loco.

Bachmann hold a licence for the character loco in the USA but not UK.

Bachmann are make a model of the character loco, using scans of the real loco, the licence is held for the US not the UK

Perhaps the moulds, (or the right to use them, if the moulds are owned by Bachmann) are paid for by the publisher, and therefore cannot be used for anything else?

 

Stewart