Hornby Class 71

[45568]

So the modus operandi is:

 

Drive the freight train off the main into the reception siding under the wires.  Take loco off track.  Turn upside down.  Switch to overhead.  Put loco back on track under the wires.  Raise pantograph.  Shunt train.  Repeat in reverse when departing yard?  So much for hands off operation.  At least with the old 25Kv TriAng / Hornby overhead electric locos the changeover switch was on the roof.

 

Alternatively have a spare to do the shunting?  But then again, does anyone do 750v overhead masts and contact wire?

 

Looks like 3rd rail in the sidings and ignore health & safety?

I think your forum 'handle' says it all!!

 No more comments.

From Oz,

Peter C.

[dibber25]

I think that arguments over the relative merits of duplicated models tend to apply a zero sum game approach. So if one model is better then the other is bad, I don't accept this. One model may be better however that does not preclude the alternative from being a good model and in a sense I'd argue that it is a moot argument if both models satisfy the demands of potential customers. There may be all sorts of factors that influence the decision of which to buy, such as price, availability, livery application etc. So to me the fact that the DJM offering promises to be excellent in no way diminishes the Hornby model, any more than the Hornby model should be seen as diminishing the DJM model. When we can compare both models we can make our decision but I'm confident that whichever version people buy, they will be happy and have a first class model. Many will I am sure buy both.

You're right, of course, but commercially such duplication is usually a disaster. If everyone bought one of each, it would be OK but the demand for a locomotive such as this is not like that for, say, an 'A4' or Flying Scotsman. Splitting the market across two models might work if one was very simple and cheap and effectively catered for a different market segment. However, we're about to have two potentially great models, with high tooling and assembly costs and the real likelihood that they'll split exactly the same market. I really hope I'm wrong but I see the BR Standard 4MT disaster coming again and being followed by a similar situation with the Adams Radial. In a business where development times are long and access to reliable manufacturing slots is difficult, duplication is a thoroughly bad idea. (CJL)

[jjb1970]

You're right, of course, but commercially such duplication is usually a disaster. If everyone bought one of each, it would be OK but the demand for a locomotive such as this is not like that for, say, an 'A4' or Flying Scotsman. Splitting the market across two models might work if one was very simple and cheap and effectively catered for a different market segment. However, we're about to have two potentially great models, with high tooling and assembly costs and the real likelihood that they'll split exactly the same market. I really hope I'm wrong but I see the BR Standard 4MT disaster coming again and being followed by a similar situation with the Adams Radial. In a business where development times are long and access to reliable manufacturing slots is difficult, duplication is a thoroughly bad idea. (CJL)

 

I certainly agree on the commercial points. Some items can support duplication and there are opportunities to duplicate items in a way which genuinely enhances choice without necessarily damaging the suppliers (eg. the Railroad and Bachmann full fat Tornado models) but I'm not sure a niche item like the 71 will support almost simultaneous directly competing releases and make a good return for both. My point was more about the quality and realism of the models.

Edited July 2, 2016 by jjb1970

[Brian Hawkins]

Well, I went for it today and purchased 71012 in BR blue, I just wanted a class 71, I've also got my local model shop to put by E5001 and E5022, I'm really impressed with the Hornby version but, I will also make one or two purchases of the DJM 71's when they become available.

[dibber25]

I certainly agree on the commercial points. Some items can support duplication and there are opportunities to duplicate items in a way which genuinely enhances choice without necessarily damaging the suppliers (eg. the Railroad and Bachmann full fat Tornado models) but I'm not sure a niche item like the 71 will support almost simultaneous directly competing releases and make a good return for both. My point was more about the quality and realism of the models.

They look like they'll both be great. I have a 16-year-old Golden Arrow resin-bodied Class 71 which I really like but things have moved a long way in 16 years. I have a Hornby one on order and, no doubt, when DJM's is ready I'll get one of those, too, but I'm one who likes Class 71s and I'm happy to have several. I like AC Cars railbuses and actually have more than BR ever had! (CJL)

[Removed a/c]

  At least with the old 25Kv TriAng / Hornby overhead electric locos the changeover switch was on the roof.

 

 

You then rely on the body shell being attached to the chassis. Looks like limited room inside so I would think the wires would have to be short. 

 

 

Looks to be a great model and photos can be deceptive, but is the body shell painted or is it cast in the colour? The first set of photos gie the impression of coloured plastic ala Esso Sentinel. 

[Stevelewis]

Digitizing  the  Hornby  class  71

 

I have   fitted  a  decoder  to one  of  my  71s  tonight..... so  I thought  that  others  may  like  to  have  a look  at my findings:

 

This  is  not  intended  to  be  a definitive method, other  may   do  it  differently.

 

Body  removal is  quite  easy  after   disconnecting  the  dummy  earthing  strips  at  the  cab  ends  the  body  is  unclipped  using  the  tried  and  tested  small  thin  blade  credit  car  and  finger  nail method,  A WORD  OF  WARNING  WHEN REMOVING  THE  BODY  KEEP  FINGERS  AWAY FROM  THE  PANTOGRAPH  IT  IS  VERY  FRAGILE  AND  EASILY  DISMANTLES!!!!!!!! But  it  is  easy  to put  back together!!  say no  more!

 

The interior  decoder  space  is  very limited,  I  only  had  some  Hattons  8 pin  mini decoders to  hand  so  it  was  that   or  nothing  ( No doubt  others  will be  able  to suggest  smaller  ones  the  GMaster  DCC22  perhaps  or  a  six pin  on  an 8 pin adaptor  lead))

I tried a  couple  of  unsuccseful attempts to locate  the  decoder,  but each  rendered it  impossible to re fit  the  body, 

There is  space inside  the  body  for   a  decoder  but  this  is  taken  up  with  the interior power detail  section which is visible  thro the  window,  this  is  a plastic moulding  which simply  clips  out. 

So  for  the  time  being  a removed  it  and  this  provided  ample  decoder  space,  it  may be poss to  reduce  the detail piece in size as it  is  much longer  than  the  window, or  the  window  could  perhaps  be   obscured so the interior is  less visible.

 

Anyway  loco runs  very  well under  digital control  just  got  my other  71   to  do  now! 

 

Note  how  the  power  is  transferred  from  the  body to  chassis  for  route indicator lights  and  pantograph power.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Stevelewis

[metropolitan cammell]

I fitted a lenz silver direct to mine,I think there is just enough clearance between the roof and the pcb for it to fit.

[Stevelewis]

That  is  good  info,  I fitted  the  decoders  I had  spare,  but  may consider buying  some  Lenz direct 8 pins  so the   interior  detail can be reinstated,  matter  of  interest  were  you able  to  digitally  turn  off the   rear  red lights?

[metropolitan cammell]

That is good info, I fitted the decoders I had spare, but may consider buying some Lenz direct 8 pins so the interior detail can be reinstated, matter of interest were you able to digitally turn off the rear red lights?

Sadly not, only using the switch underneath. Edited July 2, 2016 by metropolitan cammell

[Stevelewis]

Just  returning to my post  re  decoder  fitting/space,   I believe  that more  space  would probably be available within the  body  if  the  spring  contact  for  pantograph power  were  removed ( see pic  attached) I did not actually measure the  depth of the  spring  but   guess around 5mm.

 

I cannot see that  a   high proportion of  Hornby 71 purchasers  will actually wish to  use  the loco under overhead  power collection anyway, and  those  that do may not be using digital anyway

 

It  would be advisable  to insulate  the  contact point on the PCB if this  was carried  out to prevent any interference  with unwanted contact  from  the proposed   decoder!.

 

The contact  point  being  the  square  bit in the  centre of the PCB in the  Pic, the blue wire is not part of the PCB  its on the  decoder. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Stevelewis

[knitpick]

You then rely on the body shell being attached to the chassis. Looks like limited room inside so I would think the wires would have to be short. 

 

 

Looks to be a great model and photos can be deceptive, but is the body shell painted or is it cast in the colour? The first set of photos gie the impression of coloured plastic ala Esso Sentinel. 

 

Der. . .  According to other posters in this thread, you can run the loco from the pantograph (haven't tried with mine - no overhead wire as yet!).  So there must be a wire from the body shell / pantograph to the chassis anyway?  Actually you probably could have metal sprung contacts instead of wire - but you still need the electrical conection.

 

And from what I can tell - it's a paint job.

[Removed a/c]

Looks like springs for the contacts, but haven't we had issues with spring contacts in the past with other locos? 56 and 43 (HST) that is why they are now wired? 

[barison82]

Hattons have justed posted out the BR blue one I pre-ordered a few weeks ago...cannot wait

[Stevelewis]

Looks like springs for the contacts, but haven't we had issues with spring contacts in the past with other locos? 56 and 43 (HST) that is why they are now wired? 

 

It  is  a  spring  contact   see my photos  2 or  3  post  previous,  I wonder  really  why  Hornby  opted  to   enable  the  Pantograph   for  actual POWER  CONNECTION given  that  the  real  thing only   used  OH  in  yards  where  3rd rail  was  unsafe   for  staff ( shunters)  and  the  likelihood  of  modellers  actually  constructing/installing  OH  is  probably  very slim.

 

The   contact  spring  in  the  roof  if  removed  will provide  increased  space  for   decoder fitting.

 

Very  nice  models  though  the  retailer  I  bought my 2  from  last  week  (Arcadia Rail) says  he  has  done  very  well  with  them  ( And  his  price  is  right  as  well)

 

It  will be  interesting  to  see  how  Hornby's  version  compares  with  the  other  manfrs model when it eventually  arrives

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 The prototype conjunction of overhead and shunting yard is a modelling challenge alright, so much fun arranging the knitting over the point network for a start, and then the occasion of joy that is dealing with a reluctant autocoupler underneath the complete overhead between adjacent lines of vehicles

Looks like springs for the contacts, but haven't we had issues with spring contacts in the past with other locos? 56 and 43 (HST) that is why they are now wired? 

 It's more a matter of detail execution, and this looks decently done, sizeable springs and contact patches in a clean location. Alternatives like little pieces of bent sheet expected to contact other little pieces of bent sheet, not so clever.

[Pedro32]

Hi,

 

I've taken delivery of the new BR Blue (71012) version and have to say that I'm very impressed with it! The detail pack comes with two buffer beams with pipe work which I imagine slot into the recess where the NEM coupler is and there is a pack of headcodes to be added as required.

 

Performance wise I've only got a 4 mtr part built layout, but its very quiet and runs very smoothly- no hesitation over points, and is a good weight too. The loco is dcc decoder fitted and Rails who I bought it from didn't appear to have problems leading to removal the compartment detailing. It is positive that Hornby have adopted the switches on the underside of the loco for lights and the phantograph. But they should have been doing this for many of their modern image locos for years really, just my opinion though!

 

I am sure the other 71 manufacturer will produce a fantastic product too, and I have ordered a 74 to compliment my current Hornby 71. 

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Derails Models]

Must say this has to be one of the best from the Diesel & Electric category from Hornby in a long time! Had one out on test just now and found it wonderful, the running is sublime, I also love the pantograph and the fact that it can be used for power pickup!

 

Our customers must agree too, from this first delivery we're down to just one of each of E5022 (R3373) and 71012 (R3374) and just two left of E5001 (R3376)! 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Derails Models

[dibber25]

E5022 running the 'Golden Arrow' on my home layout. Can't add headboard or decorations yet in case it is photographed for review in a future Model Rail. (CJL)

[BruceV]

"Body Removal"

"Before attempting to remove the body you must pull out the earth strap from the holes in the front and back of the loco, as shown in Fig. 4 & 5."

 

Both earth straps on my E5022 were glued in.   I needed to extract them to fit a DCC decoder.   They appeared to have pulled out easily enough but on closer inspection both had broken off flush with the body.   After fitting a DCC decoder and replacing the body, I didn't bother gluing the earth straps back as they went back to their approximate position and I will be able to remove the body again.

Why glue them if they are designed to be removed and replaced?

[Stevelewis]

"Body Removal"

"Before attempting to remove the body you must pull out the earth strap from the holes in the front and back of the loco, as shown in Fig. 4 & 5."

 

Both earth straps on my E5022 were glued in.   I needed to extract them to fit a DCC decoder.   They appeared to have pulled out easily enough but on closer inspection both had broken off flush with the body.   After fitting a DCC decoder and replacing the body, I didn't bother gluing the earth straps back as they went back to their approximate position and I will be able to remove the body again.

Why glue them if they are designed to be removed and replaced?

 

On  My  2  locos  the  Earth Straps  were  not  glued  they  simply  pulled  out  of  the   fixing  holes  with  the  aid  of a  thin blade

[Pandora]

I believe its origins lay in rhe design of the BLS ( Swiss) Ae 4/4 Bo Bo.My first sighting of one was E5005 on 22/7/1959 at Victoria whilst boarding  a boat train for Dover which was of course then still hauled...via Tonbridge at least.....by a Bulled Pacific. EMU's operated via the Kent Coast,some on boat trains using that route.

i read that initial design proposal use the LMS 10000 / 1 bogie so the class would be CoCo wheel arrangement. 

[metadyneman]

 

On the subject of useable decoders, I have successfully fitted my 71 with a Hatton's 8-pin direct plug 4 function decoder without the need to remove any internal "bits". I do agree with all the positive comments about this loco though, it's quite possibly the best loco Hornby have produced in quite a while. It runs beautifully and is incredibly quiet. You also don't end up with a myriad of bits to glue on which fall off when you take the body off the chassis. Well done Hornby!

Edited July 19, 2016 by metadyneman

[BR(S)]

Picture of a blue Class 71 with pantograph in use in today's mremag: http://www.mremag.com/index.php

[MGR Hooper!]

Picture of a blue Class 71 with pantograph in use in today's mremag: http://www.mremag.com/index.php

 

A link directly to the image...

 

http://www.mremag.com/images/HYS2016/July/xClass71onwire.jpg.pagespeed.ic.KkNV_gYNKK.webp