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Hornby Class 71


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  • RMweb Gold

Does any one known which retails have any of the Hornby (discounted) blues models available. I've tried ROS but they seen to be sold out and Hattons are asking £128. I'd waiting to see how it compared with Daves 71 and from what I read there is not much to choose between either of them so i may as well try the Hornby model.

 

thanks 

 

B

£99 from Bure Valley

 

http://www.burevalleymodels.com/p/8523/R3374---BR-Class-71-BR-Blue-71012

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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  • 2 months later...
  • RMweb Gold

Can't see it mentioned in the thread but is it possible to control the rear marker lights independently from the front on DCC? I know theres a switch on the bottom for non DCC (and it probably works for DCC as well) but thats a bit....old fashioned.

Secondly, what are the headcode stickers actually like? Complete pain to swap once applied or not too bad?

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  • 1 month later...

.

 

A couple of new Hornby Class 71's now available, for example from Hattons ;

 

 

Hornby R3568 Class 71 E5018 in BR green

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/250843/Hornby_R3568_Class_71_E5018_in_BR_green/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Hornby R3569 Class 71 E5005 in BR blue

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/250851/Hornby_R3569_Class_71_E5005_in_BR_blue/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

.

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  • 1 year later...

 Anybody had or heard of issues with the PCB on these locos? Mine has been running like a little sweetie every since i got it, but this evening going up 't bonk into the station I gave her some beans up to about 90% full power and as she accelerated suddenly all the lights went out. It seems some component has died, or maybe a track burned out. It's impossible to tell as the PCB is multi layered with micro surface mounted components (It's not DCC) I've got everything working again simply by wiring up the LEDs to the power pickup with inline resistors. Trouble is it's not really an ideal fix.

 Thanks

 Pete.

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  • 2 years later...
On 01/02/2017 at 20:30, Shedmaster said:

Hi All, Good Evening,

 

May I ask your thoughts / opinions on which you find is the most suitable DCC decoder for the Hornby Class 71, taking into account the limited space ( I am led to believe ) inside the body shell ?

 

Any advice or pointers would be very much appreciated,

 

Many Thanks,

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Shed.

For anyone still wondering (sorry, late to the party!) the space inside this what should be cavernous bodyshell is none-existant. I have used a tiny LaisDDC decoder and mounted it in the recess where the booster moulding sits. I secured it with kapton tape so it sits against the motor body. There is not sufficient space between the cab interior and the chassis block to mount one vertically. Ridiculously bad planning from a design perspective. It's not really DCC ready at all, it's a token gesture.

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7 hours ago, Kim Durose said:

For anyone still wondering (sorry, late to the party!) the space inside this what should be cavernous bodyshell is none-existant. I have used a tiny LaisDDC decoder and mounted it in the recess where the booster moulding sits. I secured it with kapton tape so it sits against the motor body. There is not sufficient space between the cab interior and the chassis block to mount one vertically. Ridiculously bad planning from a design perspective. It's not really DCC ready at all, it's a token gesture.

I’ve had the same problem as I’ve just tried to fit a Dcc chip.....I’ve tried a 8 pin direct , a lens sliver,and a Dcc concept concept mini and all still don’t fit. I’ve seen a u-tube clip from Jenny Kirk which sho

 

7 hours ago, Kim Durose said:

For anyone still wondering (sorry, late to the party!) the space inside this what should be cavernous bodyshell is none-existant. I have used a tiny LaisDDC decoder and mounted it in the recess where the booster moulding sits. I secured it with kapton tape so it sits against the motor body. There is not sufficient space between the cab interior and the chassis block to mount one vertically. Ridiculously bad planning from a design perspective. It's not really DCC ready at all, it's a token gesture.

I’ve try a direct pin 8 decoder, lens silver with harness,and a Dcc concept mini and none fit properly. I’ve seen a u tube clip from Jenny Kirk showing a simple fit fit a 71.

 

I’d like some advise because like you I can’t fit a decoder in the 71 which is very annoying 

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I fitted mine long ago, anyway so I took it apart to see what I fitted. I fitted a LaisDCC direct fit DCC decoder, but it looks like you could fit a Hornby one if you connect it and rest the decoder suitably insulated on top of the motor. I didn't realise I fitted a LaisDCC so I will probably change it to a Zimo, which is a better decoder and comes already insulated.

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Having had another look the space over the motor is taken up with the cover in the body. So it looks like a 8 pin LaisDCC direct fit which is very shallow or alternatively a rewired 6 pin Zimo wired to 8 pin. That is small enough to fit on top of the circuit board and if it is rewired, the wire will not take up much room. You might get away with a Hornby one if you flatten out the wire.

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  • RMweb Gold
59 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Having had another look the space over the motor is taken up with the cover in the body. So it looks like a 8 pin LaisDCC direct fit which is very shallow or alternatively a rewired 6 pin Zimo wired to 8 pin. That is small enough to fit on top of the circuit board and if it is rewired, the wire will not take up much room. You might get away with a Hornby one if you flatten out the wire.

 

The Lenz Silver Direct fits perfectly without any problems. If you want to fit a Zimo decoder, the MX600R fits easily so long as you remove the plastic insert that represents the generator - it's just a clip fit. Plus it may also be necessary to remove the sprung  electrical connector for the pantograph which I assume you will not be using if running on DCC. It just fits with the same screw that holds the pantograph in place. So hold the body upside down, firmly holding the pantograph in place, undo the small screw, remove the spring and put the small screw back in again. 

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I only recently bought a blue TOPS Hornby 71 (my other existing pair are DJM in green variations), and I too went through a few iterations before settling on a suitable decoder. First tried a direct plug in DCC Concepts decoder, which worked nicely but would not allow the body to clip back on, so next was a TCS DP2X-UK; that one was not great on running qualities and caused a few little oddities in the behaviour. That could have been ironed out with a little CV tweaking, but it only had two functions available, where the Hornby model ideally needs six. ... the body did clip back on though! :D

Next was a Zimo MX600, which behaved beautifully, but even after milling away part of the interior 'engine room' moulding, I still could not quite get the decoder end of the body to clip back in. Finally, I remembered I had a couple of ESU LokPilot 5 micro decoders set aside for other projects. One of those went in nicely, and the wiring harness was long enough to allow the decoder to sit comfortably at the non-socket end of the PCB. The body clipped back on nicely. There was a little bit of an issue with surging at very low speeds, which was not fixed using the ESU auto-tune function a few times, so it was onto the programming track and Decoder Pro to tweak a couple of the parameters for low speed running and feedback. Having done that, it now runs perfectly at all speeds, and hauls a decent load too.

 

 

IMG20210118135810.jpg

Edited by SRman
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  • 1 month later...

Another reason for me to be wary of Hornby generally. Bad planning for DCC upgrading  and awful build quality (the pickup system on their steam locos is a joke) . I’d never buy a Hornby steam loco as I’ve seen the extent of their build quality recently.

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1 hour ago, Kim Durose said:

Another reason for me to be wary of Hornby generally. Bad planning for DCC upgrading  and awful build quality (the pickup system on their steam locos is a joke) . I’d never buy a Hornby steam loco as I’ve seen the extent of their build quality recently.

I agree with the bad planning comment for DCC but the Hornby pickup system is generally very good. I own models by Bachmann, Dapol and Heljan and if anything their pickups are slightly worse. I get the opinion with Hornby, DCC was an after thought so no planning as to the positioning of the socket. With this loco it was one of the early DCC designs which they have obviously not upgraded. The 8 pin DCC socket makes it worse as you can put it in any place with very little design. The 21 pin and 18 pin offerings mean you have to do a lot of  upfront design work to make them fit, plus you have no lengths of wire to worry about, hence why DCC fitting on Bachmanns and Dapols is easier.

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1 hour ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I agree with the bad planning comment for DCC but the Hornby pickup system is generally very good. I own models by Bachmann, Dapol and Heljan and if anything their pickups are slightly worse. I get the opinion with Hornby, DCC was an after thought so no planning as to the positioning of the socket. With this loco it was one of the early DCC designs which they have obviously not upgraded. The 8 pin DCC socket makes it worse as you can put it in any place with very little design. The 21 pin and 18 pin offerings mean you have to do a lot of  upfront design work to make them fit, plus you have no lengths of wire to worry about, hence why DCC fitting on Bachmanns and Dapols is easier.

Very good points!
Hornby seem to rely on gravity and pressure from the bottom plate to keep pickup strips in contact with the with those tiny little circular contact points that leed to the DCC socket.  It's a rubbish arrangement, laughable really. Add to that the fact the pickup strips are barely long enought to reach the wheel rims (they tend to contact the wheel centres).
Thankfully the diesel / electric bogie arrangements seem to be better, albeit with zero thought as to where the tiniest of DCC decoders will be positioned. The 71 is a great model to look at but is horrible in this respect. A simple task like fitting the smallest of decoders in a "DCC Ready" model should be well within the capabilty of any modeller. It's almost as if Hornby forgot it's DCC customer base right from the design stage.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Kim Durose said:

Thankfully the diesel / electric bogie arrangements seem to be better, albeit with zero thought as to where the tiniest of DCC decoders will be positioned. The 71 is a great model to look at but is horrible in this respect. A simple task like fitting the smallest of decoders in a "DCC Ready" model should be well within the capability of any modeller. It's almost as if Hornby forgot its DCC customer base right from the design stage.

 

It's really down to Hornby's dogged insistence on using 8-pin decoders for every model. If this were a Bachmann model, there'd be a 21-pin socket and DCC fitting would be a doddle as 21-pin decoders are more or less the same size as the blanking plug. And the socket might even be in the underframe so you could install a decoder without having to take the body off.

 

Try fitting an 8-pin decoder into a Hornby M7 or H tank loco. Bachmann's E4 had a 6-pin socket - again DCC fitting was dead simple. 

Edited by RFS
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I’ve managed to get a lens sliver direct to fitted which allowed the body to seat properly but unfortunately the lights don’t work now.....

 

I have to agree with those who have said Hornby didn’t plan the DDC decoder well as many of the chips just won’t allow the body to seat, with or without a harness. It’s seems only direct fitted chips which have the 8 pin  orientated towards the cab as opposed to the body sides that fit easily. There should have been provision made for seating any decoder without fouling the body.

 

Does anybody have an idea as to why the lights aren’t working? I have not recheck on dc yet but they did work before fitting the chips. 
 

thanks

 

B

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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, brenn said:

I’ve managed to get a Lenz sliver direct fitted which allowed the body to seat properly but unfortunately the lights don’t work now.....

 

Does anybody have an idea as to why the lights aren’t working? I have not recheck on dc yet but they did work before fitting the chips. 
 

thanks

 

B

 

Most likely because the decoder is the wrong way round. I have a Lenz Silver Direct in mine and the lights are OK. 

Edited by RFS
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Generally if the lights don't work then the 8 pin header is in the wrong way round. Another big advantage of the 21 pin socket is you cannot get it the wrong way round although you can get it one row of pins out (I had a header from Bachmann where they actually did this with the header). The latest Merchant Navy from Hornby they seem to have got it right. Recently I have been doing some work on some early Bachmann Steam locos and they do put some design in the placement of the decoder, but it normally means removing a weight and their pickups are worse than Hornbys.

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1 hour ago, Kim Durose said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for £100 - £180 a pop for a loco, I don't expect this level of faff or amateurism :).

I know but it does seem to be a thing with Model Railways, is it that they don't employ decent engineers. I was watching a review of Sams Trains of the GT3 and it was obvious that to fix the issue with the front bogie is a shouldered bolt with a spring. Hornby used to do this in the 80's then they stopped doing it and the front bogies were forever derailing. On their latest models they seemed to have fixed it. Take the Dapol class 73, what sensible person would put pickups next to gear wheels that carry grease, a wonderful insulator. They are just a few that I notice on a regular basis.

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2 hours ago, Kim Durose said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for £100 - £180 a pop for a loco, I don't expect this level of faff or amateurism :).

This is the point exactly!

 

I have just embarked on chipping my collection and have come across problems with many of my locos, partly because they have been in storage, but mainly with lights not working from the fit of the lights lugs once the body is seated. Dapol 29 seems to me the best example of a manufactured model taking in to account ease of ddc decoder fitting. The body simple to remove/replace and the lights are wired in to the main board with connecting plugs that can be disconnected if needed. Simple and effective, but I guess cost more to manufacture...... At £150 a pop now for a standard diesel I don’t think a better solution to lights rather than copper contact strips is to much to ask.

 

B

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1 hour ago, brenn said:

This is the point exactly!

 

I have just embarked on chipping my collection and have come across problems with many of my locos, partly because they have been in storage, but mainly with lights not working from the fit of the lights lugs once the body is seated. Dapol 29 seems to me the best example of a manufactured model taking in to account ease of ddc decoder fitting. The body simple to remove/replace and the lights are wired in to the main board with connecting plugs that can be disconnected if needed. Simple and effective, but I guess cost more to manufacture...... At £150 a pop now for a standard diesel I don’t think a better solution to lights rather than copper contact strips is to much to ask.

 

B

Try removing the body from a Bachmann EMU to install a decoder. Took longer to get the body off and repair the damage to the underframe detail than it did for the decoder to arrive by post and fit it....... oh, and the cuts to my thumbs I wont even mention. Oh, I just did.

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5 minutes ago, Kim Durose said:

Try removing the body from a Bachmann EMU to install a decoder. Took longer to get the body off and repair the damage to the underframe detail than it did for the decoder to arrive by post and fit it....... oh, and the cuts to my thumbs I wont even mention. Oh, I just did.

Try a Heljan class 28, it supposedly just unclips like a Hornby. It took me about 2 hours to get it to come apart. I mailed Hattons and they did say it was difficult. The other one is Hornby tenders, I don't know it they assemble them while the printing is tacky but first time they are taken apart to fit the decoder it is really difficult. After they have been apart once there is no issue. Dapol has got to be the best with their Mogul. 

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  • RMweb Gold
33 minutes ago, Kim Durose said:

Try removing the body from a Bachmann EMU to install a decoder. Took longer to get the body off and repair the damage to the underframe detail than it did for the decoder to arrive by post and fit it....... oh, and the cuts to my thumbs I wont even mention. Oh, I just did.

 

Take a couple of old credit/store cards and cut them in half. Then it's fairly easy to insert one piece in between body and frame at the centre of the coach, and then slide to each corner to get the body off.  Same technique with the class 71, 73, Heljan 33s etc. 

 

Hornby 2-BIL/2-HAL require a different technique as there's a lug in the centre. Again it's slide the credit card piece there to separate the body from the frame lug, whilst using a screwdriver to move the lugs at each corner. 

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