Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[robmcg]

On 14/04/2021 at 07:16, Graham_Muz said:

A replacement cowl in front of the chimney, the sides from just above the bottom edge of where the defectors will start cut back to be flush to the smoke box front and short deflectors blended in. 
it will be the topic of a blog post when I do it as 21c7 in black will be first followed by my 21c3 in malachite. 

 

Like this?

 

 

Concocted from pictures of my Hornby Bulleid Pacifics and editing with Paintshop Pro 6.

 

Will remove if it offends.

 

Here is a quick guess at the new model...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by robmcg
more trouble at mill, fixing front of 21C7

[Dunsignalling]

From a modelling perspective, the pace of change in the early forms of the MN was quite scary. It appears that new things were tried out on almost all of the first series; some obvious, some less so. In some instances, the paint can have been barely dry! I suspect that some relatively minor/short term changes to certain locos might even have escaped photography altogether.

 

An urgent motivation was weight reduction, as the first two had turned out at least five tons over the planned/authorised weight. Hence the Limpet board casing being introduced from 21c4 on. 

 

Where successful, despite (or perhaps because of) the pressures of wartime; modifications were retro-fitted to earlier locos, and incorporated into others still under construction, very rapidly.   The "widow's peak" upper front casing seems to have become extinct by mid-late 1944. Smoke-lifting arrangements seem to have evolved almost loco-by-loco, but they were beginning to assume a fairly uniform outline before the war was over. The "hood" ahead of the chimney and separate smoke deflectors replaced an initial "flared" type, which appeared to have been created by re-forming a portion of the plain casing. The separate ones were initially about half the length of what later became "standard", though I hesitate to use the word in this context! Especially long ones were applied to 35020 (and three Light Pacifics) in connection with the 1948 interchange trials, so somebody with influence clearly considered it to be "unfinished business" even by then. 

 

Those wishing to run models of early variants together (and by early, I mean 1941-44), with two or more locos in exact date/specification correlation to one another, face a challenge; to put it very mildly.

 

John

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Black 5 Bear]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

Further to my display of ignorance above, here is the Hattons photo of 21C3 to compare with Graham's excellent 21C7 photos from a few messages back.

 

 

Looks pretty similar to me, and I have feeling that these models are quite hard to find second-hand.

One was sold on eBay the other day Rob for £430.

They regularly sell for £300-£350.

[Graham_Muz]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Like this?

 

 

Concocted from pictures of my Hornby Bulleid Pacifics and editing with Paintshop Pro 6.

 

Will remove if it offends.

 

Here is a quick guess at the new model...

 

 

 

 

 

Rob 

 

The lower half bulbous casing in front of and below the cylinder centre line to the bottom edge of the buffer beam was only applied to Channel Packet for a short while and also to the first of the second series No.11 (that is somewhat close to me heart) 

The Hornby model of 21c7 will be similar to your top image

[3rd Rail Exile]

26 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

One was sold on eBay the other day Rob for £430.

They regularly sell for £300-£350.

Indeed - I chickened out of that auction once it passed £350 

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

Indeed - I chickened out of that auction once it passed £350 

It makes you wonder how much the forthcoming HD Merchant Navies will go for in the future.

[jonnyuk]

2 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

One was sold on eBay the other day Rob for £430.

They regularly sell for £300-£350.

i bought mine from the Rails Vault about a year ago for just under £200, i keep an eye on them and i woudl say £200-£250. Best thing to do is look at sold items, not what is currently available and the asking price. I can see the wartime version going the same way so glad i've got a pre-order in place.

[Black 5 Bear]

48 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

i bought mine from the Rails Vault about a year ago for just under £200, i keep an eye on them and i woudl say £200-£250. Best thing to do is look at sold items, not what is currently available and the asking price. I can see the wartime version going the same way so glad i've got a pre-order in place.

My Royal Mail M/M was £125.00 brand new from a dealer in Ipswich, who no longer stocks UK outline models. That included free p+p, bargain or what !

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Black 5 Bear
Typo

[maico]

Here's the front of the black one...second from right

 

If you include the Dublo diecast the 2017-2021 MN range have 5 different body mouldings.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by maico

[Calidore]

There seems to have been a sneaky photo of 35022 and 21C7 here which has subsequently disappeared. The green looked good on '22, thank the gods...

 

I hadn't been that interested in 21C7 until the discussion and images on this page. But now... Oh dear.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Calidore

[maico]

3 minutes ago, Calidore said:

There seems to have been a sneaky photo of 35022 and 21C7 here which has subsequently disappeared. The green looked good on '22, thank the gods...

 

I hadn't been that interested in 21C7 until the discussion and images on this page. But now... Oh dear.

 

Here you go. I saved it a while back but can't remember who took it.

 

 

[paftrain]

1 hour ago, maico said:

Here's the front of the black one...second from right

 

If you include the Dublo diecast the 2017-2021 MN range have 5 different body mouldings.

 

Unfortunately the 1st series early BR isn’t covered in their tooling.

[Black 5 Bear]

3 hours ago, maico said:

 

Here you go. I saved it a while back but can't remember who took it.

 

 

I think these pictures came via Hornby and were also posted on the Hattons website.

[Calidore]

On a second look, they must have been early samples, because ‘22 has the wrong bodyshell (front cowling and cylinder covers, which the production model will not have). Still a tantalising picture.

[autocoach]

Still waiting for a postwar Southern green version as per 1945-47.

[brushman47544]

6 hours ago, paftrain said:

Unfortunately the 1st series early BR isn’t covered in their tooling.

which surprised me when first revealed, as those names are in many cases the most emblematic. I will be not be adding to my Royal Mail unless or until that changes.

[robmcg]

I had absolutely no idea that 21C3 'Royal Mail' was so rare and/or sought-after.

 

I have exhumed mine and will be very careful with it as I take photos today!

 

Here's a great photo by Graham_Muz, a very handsome model to my eyes in Malachite or black.

 

 

And yes Murray you are right the lower front cowling has a sharp lower edge I will fix the picture of 21C7.

 

Thanks Dunsignalling for the date approximation for the end of the widow's peak cowling approx. 1944.  What dramatic years these were, often sad of course.  Was not 35003 the holder of the 105mph+ record for the class in later years?  Not bad for a wartime mixed traffic engine.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by robmcg
typo, correction

[Jack P]

4 hours ago, autocoach said:

Still waiting for a postwar Southern green version as per 1945-47.

 

PDK still offer kits for this variety. But I would love to be able to focus my kit-building elsewhere, Fingers crossed for a mid year announcement maybe?

 

Having said that, Hornby still haven't given the original cab on the light Pacific's a look in. Which to me is confusing because those LP's are very popular, surely a slightly retooled model would fly off the shelves? Many of the original cabs lasted into the 50's, 21C115 Exmouth didn't have hers replaced until 1957.

 

7 minutes ago, robmcg said:

Not bad for a wartime mixed traffic engine.

 

Which of course, they really weren't, despite what Bulleid said. 

[adb968008]

39 minutes ago, robmcg said:

I had absolutely no idea that 21C3 'Royal Mail' was so rare and/or sought-after.

 

I have exhumed mine and will be very careful with it as I take photos today!

 

Here's one I had in my files, no idea who took it, handsome to my eyes in Malachite or black.

 

 

And yes Murray you are right the lower front cowling has a sharp lower edge I will fix the picture of 21C7.

 

Thanks Dunsignalling for the date approximation for the end of the widow's peak cowling approx. 1944.  What dramatic years these were, often sad of course.  Was not 35003 the holder of the 105mph+ record for the class in later years?  Not bad for a wartime mixed traffic engine.

 

 

Ive got to admit Royal Mail is a stunning model.

At the time of release I ignored it, then was lucky to get a s/h one on ebay a couple of months after selling out, and before prices went mad.

At somepoint i’d guess they will do another early bird version of this class.

[Ian Hargrave]

6 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Ive got to admit Royal Mail is a stunning model.

At the time of release I ignored it, then was lucky to get a s/h one on ebay a couple of months after selling out, and before prices went mad.

At somepoint i’d guess they will do another early bird version of this class.

i bought one because it’s special to me as the only MN I had the pleasure of a journey with ....not however in malachite but in BR green a year before its emasculation in rebuilt form. I relish the memory.

[robmcg]

Well, I dug out my 21C3 'Royal Mail' and photographed it, thus...

 

 

A handsome and attractive model.

 

So I changed its colours, name and number to 21C7 'Aberdeen Commonwealth'.... rather rough, and I doubt if my pristine version will look quite like this when it arrives, but fun regardless.

 

 

Wartime black is a very hard thing to paint.  Photos edited. Will remove if required.

 

All the b+w photos I've seen of these engines with original front end, except works photos, show little evidence of cleaning.  of course they must have been cleanish sometimes.

 

Can't wait for the real thing. Cheers.

 

edit; For those who may be interested in cameras, this photo was an experiment with a half-frame 18MP Canon EOS-M with a rare but cheap (s/h UKP35 eBay) Canon macro 18-55mm zoom lens, via full-frame adaptor (UKP9), at focal length 23mm, at F22 ... single shot, aperture priority, auto everything, ISO100,  no layering or fancy stuff, 4 secs room light.

So you can get reasonable model railway photos for not much money, the EOS-M was UKP110 s/h with a standard 18-55mm zoom, which I have used for over 10,000 photos.

 

I think with the macro lens you can get a good range of realistic angles and perspectives, but I have also bought a half-frame 33MP Canon M6 MkII with 15-45mm lens which offers stupendous definition and depth of field up to F40,  with 9,000+ pixels wide images leaving plenty of room for my much-enjoyed editing.  

 

 

apologies again for going off-thread

 

Edit 2; the lower lamps on the front of 21C3 have a backward lean, shades of 35024...  but nobody mentioned it at the time.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by robmcg
cameras, addition

[Graham_Muz]

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Here's one I had in my files, no idea who took it, handsome to my eyes in Malachite or black.

 

 

And yes Murray you are right the lower front cowling has a sharp lower edge I will fix the picture of 21C7.

 

 

 

Rob, actually the picture is one of mine, see https://grahammuz.com/2017/03/17/the-Hornby-original-merchant-navy-has-docked-lets-take-a-look-the-bar-has-been-raised-again/ note it has been fitted with replacement etched nameplates. 

[robmcg]

Thanks Graham, I'll add the attribution to the post.  Or remove it if you prefer.

Edited April 15, 2021 by robmcg

[Graham_Muz]

6 minutes ago, robmcg said:

Thanks Murray, I'll add the attribution to the post.  Or remove it if you prefer.

I don’t mind if it is correctly attributed, but I’m either Graham or Muz but definitely not or ever have been  “Murray” or “Dave”  

 

The clue is my profile name... 

[robmcg]

19 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

I don’t mind if it is correctly attributed, but I’m either Graham or Muz but definitely not or ever have been  “Murray” or “Dave”  

 

The clue is my profile name... 

 

Oops sorry crossed wires. Don't ever let me wire a model railway!

 

I was thinking about the colour I obtained for 21C7 in my edited version derived from 21C3 and think I will like the factory pristine look just as much if not more, it will remind me of Kitmaster and Airfix models from the early 60s.