Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[amwells]

49 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

 

 

As I have been one of Rails' customers for a long time and they cancelled my order that I made on 13 April 2018 for £141.50 I have asked Rails for an explanation.

 

I was in the same situation. My request to honour my original order / price was declined (very politely). They explained that these are from a wholesaler, not Hornby direct so the cost to them is different...

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, amwells said:

I was in the same situation. My request to honour my original order / price was declined (very politely). They explained that these are from a wholesaler, not Hornby direct so the cost to them is different...

As Rails are no longer a Hornby authorised dealership and have acquired these models via a wholesaler/third party.

Would this adversely affect any potential warranty claims I wonder?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Black 5 Bear
Typo

[Ian Hargrave]

23 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

As Rails are no longer a Hornby authorised dealership and have acquired these models via a wholesaler/third party.

Would this adversely affect any potential warranty claims I wonder?

That’s an interesting observation.Taking this another step,how are private eBay Hornby  vendors .....if there are still any around......affected by warranty claims ? Not sure I quite understand the wholesaler channel. The only one as I recall is AB Gee. I am under the impression that H service retailers directly. Interesting.

 

[Black 5 Bear]

46 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

That’s an interesting observation.Taking this another step,how are private eBay Hornby  vendors .....if there are still any around......affected by warranty claims ? Not sure I quite understand the wholesaler channel. The only one as I recall is AB Gee. I am under the impression that H service retailers directly. Interesting.

 

Ian,

eBay purchases, unless they are from a recognised Hornby outlet, are not covered by any manufacturers warranty whatsoever should they go wrong within the 12 month warranty period.

I've fallen foul of this once in the past.

I believe Bachmann also have a similar policy towards eBay and non authorised outlets/sellers.

You would have to rely on the eBay money back guarantee.

Good luck with that one !

Edited March 23, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[Going Spare]

My understanding is that A B Gee no longer act as Hornby's "only wholesaler" of railway items and this is borne out by their website, which still offers Airfix, Corgi, Humbrol and Scalextric but there is no mention of railways.

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, Black 5 Bear said:

As Rails are no longer a Hornby authorised dealership and have acquired these models via a wholesaler/third party.

Would this adversely affect any potential warranty claims I wonder?

Hornby do not offer a manufacturer warranty in the same way that Bachmann do - any purchase will be covered by full consumer rights and in my experience Hornby are generally always willing to help regarding their products if they can - they don't go asking for receipts etc.

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, amwells said:

I was in the same situation. My request to honour my original order / price was declined (very politely). They explained that these are from a wholesaler, not Hornby direct so the cost to them is different...

The original pre-order price breaches the current Hornby terms of trade so even if they had still been an authorised retailer it would not have been sustainable

[Dan Hill]

I only ordered one from Gaugemaster I think on Friday, as part of an order for the 2021 Rocket Train pack as Hattons were unable to fulfill my order (at some point I need to order 2007 Prince of Wales as that too was unable to be fulfilled).

 

The model was due to turn up tomorrow but was pleasantly surprised to receive it today and looks rather lovely, albeit a shame my BR Blue 35005 in rebuilt condition is not in great condition to go alongside 35024 and my 21C1 and 34067.

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

Hornby do not offer a manufacturer warranty in the same way that Bachmann do - any purchase will be covered by full consumer rights and in my experience Hornby are generally always willing to help regarding their products if they can - they don't go asking for receipts etc.

Sorry but I beg to differ as I fell foul of this very scenario.

I was asked to provide a receipt and required to furnish details of the outlet which sold the item to me. 

The seller concerned was not a Hornby approved outlet, so therefore it follows that the manufacturers warranty was void.

I agree with you that Hornby do try to put things right, however if an item is bought on eBay or from a non authorised source I think you'll get very little support.

Please remember, the liability rests with the seller not  the manufacturer/importer.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[andyman7]

2 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Sorry but I beg to differ as I fell foul of this very scenario.

I was asked to provide a receipt and required to provide details of the outlet which sold the item to me. 

The seller concerned was not  aHornby approved outlet, so therefore the manufacturers warranty was void.

I agree with you that Hornby do try to put things right, however if an item is bought on eBay or from a non authorised source I think you'll get very little support.

Please remember, the liability rests with the seller not  the manufacturer/importer.

 

That's interesting as I've not had that experience - but I'd still make the observation that there is no formal Hornby Warranty system. Bachmann supply a form listing a specific time-limited warranty and information on what is required to validate it - Hornby do not do this and rely on the retailer. Rails is a long established retailer who would undoubtedly be expected to deal with any issues relating to Hornby products that they sell. Any item bought from a private seller or unregistered business will obviously not have this comeback.

[Bulleidboy100]

4 hours ago, Geoff_E said:

Model Railway Direct are showing 19 in stock  £162.00.

 

I bought mine from MRD, but ordered on the 10th January 2018 - cost £153.00.  I have always had a good service from them over a number of years.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Bulleidboy100

[Black 5 Bear]

1 minute ago, andyman7 said:

That's interesting as I've not had that experience - but I'd still make the observation that there is no formal Hornby Warranty system. Bachmann supply a form listing a specific time-limited warranty and information on what is required to validate it - Hornby do not do this and rely on the retailer. Rails is a long established retailer who would undoubtedly be expected to deal with any issues relating to Hornby products that they sell. Any item bought from a private seller or unregistered business will obviously not have this comeback.

 Hornby items bought through authorised outlets are covered by a 12 month warranty and must now be returned through the supplying dealer.

If Hornby refused to repair the item under warranty for the reason already discussed, I think you'll find liability in that case would be limited to Rails, who are the seller not the manufacturer/importer.

That is UK Consumer Law as it stands !

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, amwells said:

I was in the same situation. My request to honour my original order / price was declined (very politely). They explained that these are from a wholesaler, not Hornby direct so the cost to them is different...

That is interesting. I had guessed that Rails had got humpy with Hornby because of the hijacking of Rails models but it sounds as if Hornby decided to break with Rails. Weird goings on.

[Black 5 Bear]

26 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I was surprised to see Rails selling them, them I saw the price, recommended retail. I then assumed that they got them from a third party. Seems to be lots of them about, perhaps Hornby over compensated. 

TBH, as this model has only just been released you'll never know. That is unless of course, you have access to the number of units Hornby have produced/imported.

By all accounts, this is one of the most popular pre-ordered items to date.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Black 5 Bear
Typo

[Ian Hargrave]

49 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

That is interesting. I had guessed that Rails had got humpy with Hornby because of the hijacking of Rails models but it sounds as if Hornby decided to break with Rails. Weird goings on.

Not according to the post here by Rails in August 2020.The decision was theirs. But I do so agree with your last phrase. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Is it now the case that H ,like Bachmann,will only supply recognised official H dealers as in the long list on view on their website and that the so called middleman/ car boot / lock up garage operative has been cut out of the loop  ?  

[bigherb]

25 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Is it now the case that H ,like Bachmann,will only supply recognised official H dealers as in the long list on view on their website and that the so called middleman/ car boot / lock up garage operative has been cut out of the loop  ?  

That has always been the case though, hasn't it? They only supplied directly to a business premises.

 

[Black 5 Bear]

49 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Is it now the case that H ,like Bachmann,will only supply recognised official H dealers as in the long list on view on their website and that the so called middleman/ car boot / lock up garage operative has been cut out of the loop  ?  

I was told by one reputable outlet that this became policy due to damaged/rejected QC items finding there way onto eBay and the like.

Apparently, certain traders were purporting to be bona fide official outlets when infact they were anything but.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Black 5 Bear
Typo

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, bigherb said:

That has always been the case though, hasn't it? They only supplied directly to a business premises.

 

 
But has it though ? Up until quite recently eBay purchases of new H models could be made from sources which to say the least were unlikely to have been a retail premises. That is of course no longer the case and hasn’t been for some time. I don’t think anyone can be definitive about their retail distribution over the last decade. On the strictly legitimate side the only wholesale agent I was aware of was AB Gee who apparently are no longer stockists

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

8 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I have bought quite a few of my TTS decoders off software games retailers "on line". I am sure that they cannot be authorised Hornby retailers. Surprisingly they are nearly always the cheapest. Given TTS decoders reliability perhaps I shouldn't do it. Generally after 6 months use if they fail I return them to Hornby anyway.

Why surprisingly? 

 

No business rates to pay on your back bedroom which is where half of the above trade from if they don't have bona fide business premises!

 

The reliability issues might mean they are counterfeit or, as has been mentioned above, QC rejects acquired illicitly.

 

John

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Robin Brasher]

The airsmoothed Merchant Navy Pacifics had too high an axle loading for the Swanage Railway that I am modelling although I have heard that one got as far as Corfe Castle before they took all the coal out of the tender and sent it back. Despite this Nania has painted a copy of a Strongs of Romsey hoarding on a concrete wall by Swanage Turntable of a blue Merchant Navy locomotive with a rake of Pullmans. If I ever receive my blue East Asiatic Company locomotive it could form part of a Strongs of Romsey hoarding diorama on a 4' x 2' baseboard as a lockdown project.

[Black 5 Bear]

15 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

TTS decoders as a whole have reliability issues. Most of my ones that have failed have come from Proper Hornby Retailers. The Hornby chat room is full of issues with them. As for counterfeit, I doubt it, the market is not big enough and the effort too great. Usually the way most software products are cloned is when a disillusioned employer or contractor leaves taking the design with them. They obviously buy them on the open market or when Model Shops go bust. 

If Hornby TTS decoders as a whole have reliability issues as you put it, I have to ask the question as to why you buy them ?

[MikeParkin65]

35 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

TTS decoders as a whole have reliability issues. Most of my ones that have failed have come from Proper Hornby Retailers. The Hornby chat room is full of issues with them. As for counterfeit, I doubt it, the market is not big enough and the effort too great. Usually the way most software products are cloned is when a disillusioned employer or contractor leaves taking the design with them. They obviously buy them on the open market or when Model Shops go bust. 

Everything electronic will fail eventually. It is wrong to assert that Hornby TTS have reliability issues without comparing to other brands. I have got several TTS chips (diesel only - can't abide the unsynchronized steam sound) and several Zimo and Loksound. I have had one failure in 5+years  and that was a Zimo (and almost certainly user error!). 

[adb968008]

A good boss of mine used to say...

 

Hardware never breaks and Software never works.

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, cbrooks122000 said:

No, according to the IT department software always works. My interpretation is, but not exactly doing what you wanted it to do.

In our IT department, the customer care team has a special category for that type of claim.. “Critical, to 1 person”.. it always gets put as a low priority.