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Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach


David Bigcheeseplant
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I didn't recognise it! Looks a lot better than it should. For me, the only give away that it's one of mine is the radius on the corners of the windows. I think mine were too big and I wondered initially, if Bachmann's were too small.  (CJL)

I think the perfect window is somewhere between your's and Bachmann's, but we're splitting hairs here, your's (CJL's) still stands up well against the RTR. I'm still pleased with it, perhaps it's after having a lengthy battle with the conversion, and i'll certainly be keeping it in service, in fact it can happily run coupled to the Bachmanns, as illustrated above. I regard the colour as "weathered maroon", seen alongside the ex-works Bachmann lined maroon on the left, and plain crimson to the right. The close-up of my modified Airfix front shows three corrections needed, one, that horrible RTR coupling mount needs chopping out, two, maybe my gong should be maroon (?), and three, i need to put the body screws back in! I could also add the end corner steps.

    Mention was made of the Comet kit, when Comet started pre-rolling their coach tumblehomes/tumbleunders, they didn't bother with any of the Hawksworths, being a more subtle roll, but it should be added. There was a MTK kit for the auto, an alloy body wrap and whitemetal ends and bogies, a bit of a challenge, as was the Westdale kit that preceded it, which again was punched alloy, i believe with alloy or wooden roof and alloy ends.  

    Regarding driver's seats, they certainly seemed to be standing more in the 1950s, but by the 60s some drivers are obviously photographed seated. Perhaps the unions complained (?), no driver's seat in any of the small Lewis book drawings, but a 1974 plan in the appendices of a DVR example, shows a single fold down seat in the cab.           BK

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My autocoach is winging it way in the post to me as I type this. looking at the interior in the photos in the previous posts, I am thinking of making a whole new drop in floor with Thrush and also bus style seating, in laser cut parts plus resin or 3D printed bits. the reduction in height of floor could also be done. Would anyone be interested in parts if I done this?

 

David

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I definitely wanna see someone who has a youtube channel to make a video of one of these in use.

I'm guessing you mean the model? If so, depending on the timing of them arriving (they've been sent today apparently) we may be doing just that. I'll post a link if it gets done :)

 

If you mean the real thing, I could have done until recently when the DFR auto trailers + 14xx moved to the Severn Valley :-/ oh well, they may be back :)

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I'm guessing you mean the model? If so, depending on the timing of them arriving (they've been sent today apparently) we may be doing just that. I'll post a link if it gets done :)

 

If you mean the real thing, I could have done until recently when the DFR auto trailers + 14xx moved to the Severn Valley :-/ oh well, they may be back :)

Lol, I did mean the model :P.

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My autocoach is winging it way in the post to me as I type this. looking at the interior in the photos in the previous posts, I am thinking of making a whole new drop in floor with Thrush and also bus style seating, in laser cut parts plus resin or 3D printed bits. the reduction in height of floor could also be done. Would anyone be interested in parts if I done this?

 

David

 

Yes please, David.

 

Chris

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post-1943-0-85820600-1447281752_thumb.jpg

 

This is my take on the colours of the interior of the first batch W220-234 (which had the interior seat and partition layout used for the Bachmann model) in a scratch-built 2mm model during construction. The sides were a "cut and shut job" of etched DMU sides and the ends came from a P&D Marsh kit of an earlier GWR autocoach. The colours look very like Brians' 4mm coach in post #244.

 

And this is a side view of W231W I photographed at Didcot myself (honest!) many years ago, before it was restored. It was then in a non-authentic chocolate and cream livery. I wrote to the Didcot carriage superintendent and he kindly arranged for the coach to be pulled out of the shed before my visit. I think Bachmann have got the varied spacing of the windows pretty spot on. The light grey curtains are very apparent - in my model I used grey cartridge paper for the curtains.

 

post-1943-0-86882200-1447281720_thumb.jpg

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Bachmann are to be congratulated on producing a fine model which, however, needs to be weathered on the inside - is this a first?!

 

Far from it. 35 years ago I (along with many others I suspect) was repainting the creamy coloured inside of my Airfix autocoach and giving the passengers below knee amputaions to enable them to sit on the crude seats.

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Well my lined maroon version is on it's way from the 'Liverpool emporium'.

 

The SVR has a couple of auto coaches used with Mike Little's 14xx (1450) which I also have on order (the DJ Models version), though it appears delayed until Q1 next year. So my auto-coach might be laid up for a couple of months!

 

On the 12":1ft railway, how much more difficult is coupling/uncoupling the auto-fitted loco, compared to any other type of loco hauled stock? Does it need any special additional equipment that would preclude coupling/uncoupling within a station? To service the loco/coach, would they generally be separated so the loco goes 'on shed, and the auto-coach is shunted away to a carriage siding. Or do the ensemble stay together as much as possible? I'm most interested in current operation on the preserved SVR, but the historical context would be interesting too please?

 

Some earlier posts refer to the current pick-ups on these coaches. Is there any chance that the DJ Models 14xx might be produced such that the connection betwixt loco and coach can make use of the additional coach pickups?

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The SVR has a couple of auto coaches used with Mike Little's 14xx (1450) 

 

These are the ones that were previosuly homed at the DFR. :) Mike Little's GWR Autocoach is lovley - I had the pleasure of working on it once when it was down here 

 

As promised (not sure if it was here or somewhere else), here are some pictures of the Crimson & Cream Version just arrived today! The Maroon ones were the most popular, having already sold out! 

 

Sorry they're a little fuzzy, this is with a full spec camera too!

 

22574284729_23ce368550_c.jpg

36-575 Full by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

Despite the look of it, the coupling isn't deformed in this shot - I think its my dodgy tracklaying, the coach is fine!

 

22548132688_82915d257d_c.jpg36-575 End Detail by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

And don't ask where the track pin came from in this one: 

 

22343701944_e6ee725391_c.jpg

36-575 Door Detail by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

If you want any more pictures don't hesitate to ask, I also have the Crimson one here too. A video of one in use is planned for upload on Saturday! :)

Edited by Derails Models
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With all this discussion about seat colours I have lost track. Does this mean the red or brown seats in some preserved Hawksworth Auto Trailers is incorrect and that they were blue?

 
Hi Coachmann,
 
No, the red-brown seats are correct for the first batch of these coaches but not the second batch as far as I can tell.
 
I think this is how things were from all the photos I have collected:
 
  • Diagram A38, Nos W220-W234 Built 1951. Reddish brown seats (same seating arrangement as Bachmann coach, with some longitudinal benches, like earlier GWR autocoaches). Black and white photo of seats in W231 as preserved shown on page 289 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book
 
 
 
 
  • Diagram A43, Nos W235-W244. Built 1954. "Bus type" seats with corner handles on corridor side. Different seat arrangement from A38. Many photos show what appear to be blue-grey or (Edit) green-grey seats (see post #240 and #281). However, at least one seems to have had red-brown seats (see screen shot in post #184, assuming this is an A43 coach - what else could it be?). Black and white photo of seats in W239 shown on page 293 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book. The greeny-blue colour of these seats is visible in two photographs by Peter Gray in "Steam Days", January 2009, in an article called "A journey along the Exe Valley Line".
 
  • Diagram A39, ex-A38, No. W220 "Thrush'. High backed "bus type"/walkover seats with head rest and chrome handlebars on seat backs (visible in photo in post #203). Seats finished in a greenish fabric as noted in Harris "Great Western Coaches", looking a blue grey from a distance (post #236). Black and white photo of seats in Thrush on page 291 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book.
 
  • Diagram A40, ex-A38, No. W221 "Wren". "Bus type" seats similar to diagram A43, appear blue-grey from a  distance (post #196). (Edit: GWs Auto Train book says Wren was reupholstered with green fabric - post #281).
 
 
The instructions for the Comet kit online show the different seating arrangements but have no indication of seat colours:
 
 

The restored coach Chaffinch No W238 is diagram A43, but the fabric is not original according to the Vintage Carriages Trust register

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=55

 

The seats looks quite grey with a blue tinge, to my eyes, in the photos available online, and I wonder if the seat arrangement has been changed as there appear to be longitudinal seats next to the driving compartment, e.g.  

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linda_chen/15984383711

 

Edited by Douglas G
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Hi Coachmann,
 
No, the red-brown seats are correct for the first batch of these coaches but not the second batch as far as I can tell.
 
I think this is how things were from all the photos I have collected:
 
  • Diagram A38, Nos W220-W234 Built 1951. Reddish brown seats (same seating arrangement as Bachmann coach, with some longitudinal benches, like earlier GWR autocoaches)
 
 
 
 
  • Diagram A43, Nos W235-W244. Built 1954. "Bus type" seats with corner handles on corridor side. Different seat arrangement from A38. Many photos show blue-grey seats (see post #240). However, at least one seems to have had red-brown seats (see screen shot in post #184, assuming this is an A43 coach - what else could it be?). Black and white photo of seats in W239W shown on page 293 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book.
 
  • Diagram A39, ex-A38, No. W220 "Thrush'. High backed "bus type"/walkover seats with head rest and chrome handlebars on seat backs (visible in photo in post #203). Seats finished in a greenish fabric, looking a blue grey from a distance (post #236). Black and white photo of seats on page 291 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book.
 
  • Diagram A40, ex-A38, No. W221 "Wren". "Bus type" seats similar to diagram A43, appear blue-grey from a  distance (post #196)
 
 
The instructions for the Comet kit online show the different seating arrangements but have no indication of seat colours:
 
 

The restored coach Chaffinch No W238 is diagram A43, but the fabric is not original according to the Vintage Carriages Trust register

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=55

 

The seats looks quite grey with a blue tinge, to my eyes, in the photos available online, and I wonder if the seat arrangement has been changed as there appear to be longitudinal seats next to the driving compartment, e.g.  

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linda_chen/15984383711

 

 

The windows into the cab are surely not original? (CJL)

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I just found this http://plymouthrailwaycircle.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/4/8/3148911/7260472_orig.jpgThrush seats seam to be light green with a red brown fabric down the middle.

 

Interesting... The seat behind the girl certainly looks greenish. Is there something reddish and stripy sitting on the seat behind, e.g. a fur coat or similar? If you zoom in (with Control plus +), you can see the greeny-grey colour of the seat behind to the right and left - at least I think so!

 

For such relatively recent coaches, the interior details are remarkably hard to find. The other good source for information on the autocoaches, apart from the main reference Great Western coach books, is "The Exe Valley Railway" by John Owen. This has a chapter on the autocoaches, including drawings of the driver and guard compartments of the Hawksworth designs, but I can't see anything about the seat colours. And clearly the preserved coaches may not be as they were originally...

Edited by Douglas G
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Went to Invicta today and bought a crimson autocoach to go with the lined maroon one I ordered when they were first announced and which arrived a few days ago. Actually, "crimson" is a misnomer, because the colour is not all that different than the maroon.

 

Dug out my old Hornby autocoaches and ran a four-coach autotrain. Wonderful.

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I think the seats are a green leather/plastic/vinyl with a brown fabric down the centre you can see this in black and white in the John Lewis book.

 

I still think all the bus seat type trailers were in red, The seats in the preserved Chaffinch should have the bus type seating and no windows in the end bulkhead, I am pretty sure one of the preserved trailers on the South Devon Railway has the bus style seats that may be original. some had all the interiors ripped out and turned into observation cars when used by the Paignton Steam Railway in the 1970s  

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Does anyone know if it would affect the running of these models if one was to remove the brass contacts that stick up through the slots in the floor and fill those slots?

 

Also, does anyone know if these coaches have been reviewed in the modelling press yet, please?

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In Great Western Coaches Appendix  Vol 2 by J H Russell there are some full page photos of boths sides of both Thush and Wren in carmine and cream, both before and after names were applied. Interesting both have white horizontal lines on both the three end windows and drivers doors. Thush was built unnamed with the normal trailer seating and was then rebuilt more or less straight away with the new interior, repainted in lined Maroon and lost the white lines on the end windows while the white line on the drivers door went from horizontal to vertical all this in a life of only 13 years.

 

David. 

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