Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach

[Bazza]

Hi David, that's great news. Look forward to more details when you have made the necessary decisions.

Bazza

[bubbles2]

Hi David, you have produced some great looking parts for these auto coaches, l have had an Airfix autocoach for years and also have bought one of the Bachmann examples and your kits would certainly prompt me to get further examples, so will be following this with interest please keep me informed with your kit progress.

 

Geoff. 

[brushman47544]

I cant understand why anyone would want Thrush... :-)

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Having looked at loads of photos of THRUSH at a life of only 13 years there was plenty of livery changes, The photo was taken at Aylesbury on the last auto service, I will need to check the date but probably around 1960-62, after this it ended up in Tiverton where overhead live wire flashes were added to the end. 

 

Also the position of the numbers on the A43 trailers seemed to vary slightly too some are central to the right hand window and other to the right hand edge of the same window. 

 

David

[The Johnster]

11 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

I cant understand why anyone would want Thrush... :-)

But I can sort of understand why somebody might want the sort of lifestyle where they had to be aware of it...

[David Bigcheeseplant]

A couple of photos of Thrush and the A43 trailer with the new insides. I still need to work up the underframes.

 

I have costed up the parts and for a Thrush interior kit it will be £16 (this has curtains) and Wren and A43 trailer £16 those people who are interested send me a PM and I can start to manufacture the bits although it may take a week or two to get the laser cut parts done, but if I know how many of these I need I can get them done in one hit.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I am now building the test build for Wren, going back to the previous post about seat colour, this colour pic shows Wren in 1960 with what looks like red seats, also the partition is a light colour not brown as described in John Lewis autocoach book.

[trevor7598]

BR(W) made extensive use of an uncut moquette known as ' sprig and octopus '.

This was a maroon material with a yellow twig like pattern. This was used by other

BR regions as well, but was particularly common on the Western.

 

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I think the covering on the bus style seats was just plain and probably not cloth but some wipe clean material.

 

I am just test building the Wren interior and a friend of mine is just doing a test build too and adjusting the instructions. So hopefully production and shipping is not too far off for those who have shown an interest. Although I hope to have these available any time it is much easier to get all the laser cutting done in one hit.

 

I will be at our small club show Risex in Princes Risborough in February so if people want a kit please let me know in advance and I will bring one along.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

All three interior kits are now in stock if you would like one please send me a PM

 

David 

[malcolm_capener@btinternet.com]

Here are some of my memories from daily use of the Stroud Valleys service in the late 50s and 60s.

 

The upholstery colour in Thrush consisted of a kind of leatherette Sage Green slightly ‘proud’ outer ends, with a darkish red and black striped pattern for the middles.  Although I never encountered Wren, I think that for the most part the lower-backed seats fitted to later vehicles like diagram A43 had the same outers as Thrush, but with woven patterned centres in a checked sage green and black.  We need to remember that at that time various film brands (even within a major company like Kodak  -  e.g. Kodachrome vs. Kodacolor) often produced differing shades.  Also, the colour temperature of the ambient light frequently made things look bluer than they actually were.

 

My recollection of the driving end is that (generally) drivers stood in the earlier Collett trailers  -  perhaps they didn’t have a seat?  -  and sat in the Hawksworth ones.  For a picture of a driver seated, see p. 63 of Gloucester Locomotive Sheds by Steve Bartlett.  Incidentally, the upper photo on p.61 in this book was taken in the Down platform at Chalford  -  not Stonehouse  -  and the gent with the peaked hat (who I recognise, but can’t put a name to) is the Conductor/Guard.

 

All of the driving end bells that I can recall were painted maroon.

 

I hope that this helps.  It’s been nearly 60 years, but the memories of travelling on this line remain fresh.  Oh, those races against the Midland expresses hauled by Jubilees!

[The Johnster]

'End bells'.  Bet you wrote that the other way around and changed it!

 

 

AFAIK the bells were never brass as modelled by Airfix, they were always painted the same colour as whatever the background was, so cream, austerity brown, crimson, or maroon depending on the trailer's livery.  The cyclops trailers were not introduced until crimson livery, and could not have had bells in any livery but crimson or maroon.  It is tempting (or I find it tempting anyway) to model 'wrong colour' replacement bells on trailers, but the bell is probably the most mechanically reliable part of the entire trailer, and I can't really imagine a feasible situation where one would have to be replaced with one of another livery.  Droplight frames, yes, bells no.

 

Cue avalanche of dated, verified, photographic evidence proving me wrong!

[RJEB]

In Steam around Bristol, Railways of the 1950s and 1960s in colour, the photographs of Mark Warburton presented by Gerry Nichols; Crécy Publishing Ltd., Manchester; 2nd Edition 2018: ISBN 9781909328822, there are two photos of a Yatton Junction - Clevedon train headed by BR lined green with BRB totem 0-4-2T 1412 hauling an unlined maroon and an unlined crimson Hawksworth auto trailers on 07 June 1959.  On page 38 there is a photo of the same set, certainly ECS, passing Bristol West Depot.

 

To quote from https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9550&start=15, "To pick up on a point from earlier in the thread, when BR introduced its first standard liveries in 1949, non-gangwayed stock and at least some non-passenger stock was painted in BR crimson with lining (the same style as on a crimson and cream carriage, with the black adjacent to where the cream would have been). Lining on non-gangwayed crimson stock was abandoned around 1951 on cost grounds. This lack of lining carried over into the post-1956 BR maroon period, with lining on non-gangwayed stock not being reintroduced until around 1958-9 and even then not applied consistently."

 

Other photos in Steam around Bristol in the 'Yatton and the Clevedon Branch' section {pages 40 - 44} show a compartment auto trailer in unlined maroon with lined maroon Hawksworth auto trailer taken on 31 July  and during August 1960.

 

In The Clevedon Branch, Colin G. Maggs, Wild Swan Publications Ltd, Didcot, 1987: ISBN 0 906867 52 5, Hawksworth auto trailers 226 and 233 are mentioned {page 16}.  Photos, black and white, showing unlined ?crimson? and crimson and cream appear on page 34 dated June 1956 and 24 May 1953 respectively and possible maroon plus crimson unlined autotrailers on pages 41 and 49 dated 13 June and 30 August, 1957 both.

 

See also Colourrrail {location & area Yatton} Reference 390661 Class 1400 Loco number 1454 Image date 28/04/1957 with an unlined crimson auto trailer.

 

[The Johnster]

Auto trailers should have been painted unlined crimson after 1/6/48, but were painted in full crimson and cream livery, a continuation of the GW tradition of painting trailers in the best main line livery.  The practice stopped in, IIRC, 1951, after Mr Riddles noticed one at Paddington and demanded to know what his main line express livery was doing on a lowly auto trailer.  Some of the A38 Hawkworth trailers were built new with the crimson/cream livery, later ones being painted in unlined crimson.  One would expect that by and large the earlier built examples would be the more likely to be repainted in maroon or lined maroon.

 

AFAIK, there were no NPCCS vehicles ever painted in any lined version of BR Crimson; they were either unlined crimson or lined crimson/cream until 1956.  Crimson/cream was only used on gangwayed NPCCS stock, but gangwayed NPCCS was not exclusively crimson/cream.  Photos in John Lewis' Auto Trailer books show a Clifton Downs driving brake third, W 3358 W, in an unofficial lined version of crimson livery, a single yellow waist band.  This vehicle was withdrawn from service in 1951 and reinstated the same year, to be finally withdrawn in 1955, allocated to Newport Division,  The photos show several droplights replaced by cream framed ones.  I may have a crack at this coach one day!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

the Hawksworth autocoaches Diagram A38 plus Thrush and Wren received crimson and cream when new in 1951 although the diagram A43 that were built in 1954 entered service in unlined crimson.

 

The best way to spot the difference between the diagram A38 and A43 is that the A38 had curtains and the A43 did not.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

You may have seen this on another thread but I am now producing a 3D print for the autogear for the front and rear of the Hawksworth autocoaches it will also fit the Hornby Airfix model but will require packing slightly. price is £7.50 for the front driving end and £6.50 for the luggage end plus £1.50 P&P

[bubbles2]

I’ve just fitted David’s 3D printed auto gear to my Bachmann auto coach having received them on Monday.

 

The baggage end I managed to split in 2 while filing out the slot for the coupling spring but this made it much easier to fit to the underside of the coach around the coupling, I used an Ambis  Coupling hook with Smiths LP8-A links, the hook was set back as closely as possible in order to get the buffers touching the buffers of my Bachmann 6412 pannier tank. Nothing in my opinion looks worse than the coach bouncing off the buffers of the loco, my corners are a minimum 3 foot radius with points mostly  B7 or larger and this I find work fine with the buffers just contacting on straight track and buffers compressing on the inside of corners, the pannier has sprung buffers but the coach does not......yet.

 

In conclusion I must say Davids prints are very fine and really give the idea of all the mechanical gubbins under the ends of the coach.

Edited August 27, 2020 by bubbles2

[Douglas G]

Resurrecting the discussion about the colour of the seats in these coaches, I have been looking through all my books and photographs to try to get a clear what the seat colours were, to repaint the interiors of my Farish N gauge examples.

 

In Western Steam in Colour 2 by Hugh Ballantyne there is a photo on page 13 taken from the hill above Thorverton Station on the Exe Valley line in 1963 that shows what I believe is an A38 coach and behind it an A43 coach. The coach nearest the camera is clearly an A38, with the grey curtains, and the seats look a reddish brown as I have suggested earlier in this thread on the basis of other photographs. I am convinced the blue seats in the Bachmann and Farish A38 models are wrong.

 

The coach behind has bus type seats and no curtains. I think it must be an A43 as it has no name on the side, meaning it can't be Thrush (which moved to the exe valley Line in 1962). The seats definitely appear a greyish blue-green colour, at least at that distance, confirming some interior views on cine film of the Exe valley Line and some comments from others above that the seats were a greenish colour.

 

I think the red coach type seats mentioned earlier must have been in Wren, or maybe some A43 coaches got red?

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Douglas G
Got diagram number wrong for second lot

[Douglas G]

And also on page 37 of the same book a much closer view of W237W, an A43 coach, at Monmouth Troy in 1958, still in plain crimson livery. This is again taken from above and the greyish blue-green colour of the coach type seats is very clear. Humbrol Matt 31 looks a very close match for how it looks at that distance, with the edge cushions a slightly darker colour.

The same photo of W237W by Trevor Owen also appears on page 72 of "Western Steam in Colour: Branch Lines", compiled by Chris Leigh of this parish.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Douglas G
incorrect number

[Pteremy]

I don't know if it was mentioned earlier in the thread but there is a good colour photo of the interior of an Autocoach at Chalford in September 1964 on page 55 of GWJ v73 -  curtains, sliding ventilators and traditional bench seating indicating an A38, and red upholstery.

[Douglas G]

Still looking for photos...

On page 24 of "West Country Branch Lines; A Colour Portfolio" by Peter Gray, there is another photo from the hill above Thorverton. It shows two two-coach autotrains passing. One train includes "Thrush", and the grey-greeny-blue seats with high backs can just be made out. In the other train, nearer the camera, is a coach with slightly lower back coach type seats that look to be a similar colour, at least at this distance with the effects of the atmosphere perhaps adding more blue. This must be an A43.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Douglas G
grammar

[Douglas G]

Final one...Page 23 of "Western Steam in Devon and Cornwall" by Michael Welch. W244W, another A43 coach,  at Exeter St Davids in 1963. The bus type seats are clearly visible, in the same greyish blue-grey colour as W237W mentioned earlier, with the edges in a darker shiny material and the centre of each seat in a slightly lighter mottled or patterned fabric. The seat colour is the same in the smoking compartment (with red triangles in the windows) as the non-smoking compartment nearer the camera.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Douglas G
grammar

[Douglas G]

Couldn't resist mentioning one more of Thrush on page 26 of "Western Steam in Devon and Cornwall" by Michael Welch. The seats look almost grey in that picture with just a slight greenish tinge. Rather than grey as seen in A38 coaches, the curtains do seem to have a slight yellow tinge to them, but its hard to tell.

[Douglas G]

15 hours ago, Pteremy said:

I don't know if it was mentioned earlier in the thread but there is a good colour photo of the interior of an Autocoach at Chalford in September 1964 on page 55 of GWJ v73 -  curtains, sliding ventilators and traditional bench seating indicating an A38, and red upholstery.

Thanks for that information - I've just ordered a copy.

[Douglas G]

I've found a couple of useful pictures of A38 interiors online:

 

W228W

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GWR_coach_A38_228.JPG

 

W225W

http://www.auto169.co.uk/images/index.2.jpg

 

This comes from this page: http://www.auto169.co.uk/

 

I think in the first picture, of W228W, the seats nearest the camera have the original fabric, while the red fabric on the seats further away is a replacement.