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Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach


David Bigcheeseplant
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16 hours ago, Douglas G said:

Final one...Page 23 of "Western Steam in Devon and Cornwall" by Michael Welch. W244W, another A43 coach,  at Exeter St Davids in 1963. The bus type seats are clearly visible, in the same greyish blue-grey colour as W237W mentioned earlier, with the edges in a darker shiny material and the centre of each seat in a slightly lighter mottled or patterned fabric. The seat colour is the same in the smoking compartment (with red triangles in the windows) as the non-smoking compartment nearer the camera.

 

I think you'll find that the red triangles denoted non-smoking accommodation.

 

Chris

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1 minute ago, chrisf said:

 

I think you'll find that the red triangles denoted non-smoking accommodation.

 

Chris

Ah, thanks for that. I always thought it was the other way round. I'm so used to non-smoking being the default this days, not the other way round!

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2 hours ago, Douglas G said:

Ah, thanks for that. I always thought it was the other way round. I'm so used to non-smoking being the default this days, not the other way round!


Back in the day Smoking accomodation was the default.  By example, BR MkI coaches were built in the 1950s with 75% Smoking and 25% Non-smoking accomodation.  This gradually changed during the 70's, 80's and 90s  from 75:25 to 50:50, to 25:75 and eventually completely non-smoking.

 

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It’s an interesting barometer of social attitudes to smoking over time.  Pre BR, railways were keen to advertise that they had considerately provided smoking facilities, and smoking accommodation was labelled to enable smokers to find it in much the same way as first class.  Smoking accommodation had ashtrays.  BR, in the somewhat buttoned up and authoritarian late 40s, reversed this, and, keen to tell you what you couldn’t do rather than advertise what you could, brought out the red ‘NO SMOKING’ triangles.  
 

These changed to squares in corporate identity times, but red and prohibition were still the thrust of the message.  Eventually, all accommodation became non- smoking, and for a while carried the red notices on every window; now the idea that smoking is not allowed on trains has taken root and there is no need for the notices.  
 

For air travel, this is promoted as a safety issue, which I find grimly amusing.  So, you build an aircraft out of highly inflammable magnesium alloy, fill it with paraffin, set light to it, and it works by going just fast enough to stay about 6 feet ahead of the explosion!  Viewed in that light, a smoking ban feels like overkill...

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Since the smoking ban on aeroplanes, it is alleged that air quality has gone down significantly.  Aircraft used to change/filter the air so many times per hour (?) . I now understand it's a lot lower than that.  Travelling back from Waterloo, a work colleague commented on how clean & tidy the track looks nowadays. I replied:- "How did you used to chuck it out the window...?"

 

As Ronnie Corbett used to say "All this litter's not much fun, when you're only 5 foot one".

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On 12/12/2020 at 10:03, Douglas G said:

I've found a couple of useful pictures of A38 interiors online:

 

W228W

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GWR_coach_A38_228.JPG

 

W225W

http://www.auto169.co.uk/images/index.2.jpg

 

This comes from this page: http://www.auto169.co.uk/

 

I think in the first picture, of W228W, the seats nearest the camera have the original fabric, while the red fabric on the seats further away is a replacement.

 

 

 

First photo has replica late-1930s GWR "Fan" pattern cloth on the bench seats (as used in A.30 No. 190 at Didcot) and something that approximates BR "Crowsfoot" (or "Sprig & Octopus") on the 2+2 seats.

 

Second photo is too dark as is, but some cruel treatment in Photoshop suggests that it's the same arrangement as photo 1 - mislabelled?

 

Pete S.

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I have just found on eBay this photo from above of A38 autocoach W224W at Chalford:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/gw0233-British-Railway-Engine-1455-at-Chalford-Station-in-1963-photograph-6x4/393024350616?hash=item5b8213a998:g:N6kAAOSwepJXUqtv

 

The bench seat to the left of the centre door does seem to have a pattern that looks the GWR "fan" pattern mentioned in the last post by Pete S K14. At a distance the effect is a sort of pinkish brown. I think Humbrol 70 is the closest but will probably need some light grey adding. Revell 37 might also do and is more of a red colour.

 

For the floor of an A38 I think Humbrol 100 is the closest match, and a chocolate brown, possibly Humbrol 113 or 70, for the lower part of all the partitions up to window height (including in the driver's compartment below the orange slats behind the driver).

 

I need to get painting!

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16 hours ago, Douglas G said:

I have just found on eBay this photo from above of A38 autocoach W224W at Chalford:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/gw0233-British-Railway-Engine-1455-at-Chalford-Station-in-1963-photograph-6x4/393024350616?hash=item5b8213a998:g:N6kAAOSwepJXUqtv

 

The bench seat to the left of the centre door does seem to have a pattern that looks the GWR "fan" pattern mentioned in the last post by Pete S K14. At a distance the effect is a sort of pinkish brown. I think Humbrol 70 is the closest but will probably need some light grey adding. Revell 37 might also do and is more of a red colour.

 

For the floor of an A38 I think Humbrol 100 is the closest match, and a chocolate brown, possibly Humbrol 113 or 70, for the lower part of all the partitions up to window height (including in the driver's compartment below the orange slats behind the driver).

 

I need to get painting!

 

That's CrowsSprig & OctoFoot again. It's unlikely that a 1937 pattern cloth would still be in use by 1963, let alone be fitted to a vehicle built new in 1951.

 

If you went for a red oxide with perhaps a touch more red, I don't think you'd be far out.

 

See also: —

 

And, from a mere five years ago in this very thread:—

 

 

 

We've done this before, haven't we?

 

P.

 

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5 hours ago, K14 said:

 

That's CrowsSprig & OctoFoot again. It's unlikely that a 1937 pattern cloth would still be in use by 1963, let alone be fitted to a vehicle built new in 1951.

 

If you went for a red oxide with perhaps a touch more red, I don't think you'd be far out.

 

See also: —

 

And, from a mere five years ago in this very thread:—

 

 

 

We've done this before, haven't we?

 

P.

 

We have indeed been here before, but I have been taking a fresh look after seeing the replacement inserts for the different diagrams produced by David BigCheeseplant. I missed the 2015 thread called A38 autocoach interior colours, where I see you provided a very detailed description of W231W. Many thanks for your expert advice.

Whatever the actual pattern, the overall colour of the seats is clear for an A38. It is a shame that the preserved examples of these coaches have been modified, and often neglected, so much that there is considerable variation in the fabrics and interior colours, and little original left.

I am waiting for a copy of Great Western Journal issue that was recommended with a contemporary photo of the inside of one - it will be interesting to see.

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There is some early 1960s cine film of an A43 coach at 8.30 on this film about the railway at Bampton, and an interior shot of the long saloon at 8.41, which give useful information on the interior colours. The same cine film appears on Classic Western Regions Volume 1 from Branch Line Video, and a video on the Exe Valley Railway available from Tiverton Museum. 

 

 

Unfortunately the seats are facing away but it can be seen they are grey green, and this is more apparent in a close up in the original film not  included in this film on YouTube. The lining of the passenger compartments are a very light cream, including the doors on the centre axis, unlike in the A38 coaches , where the doors were dark wood and the vertical surfaces below window level were a chocolate brown. From the photos I have found in books it looks like the colours in the drivers cab of A43 coaches were the same colours as in the A38 coaches, brown below window level and an orangey colour above (very apparent behind the driver in front views).

 

On this basis I am just about to paint a scratchbuilt replacement interior to make an A43 coach from a Farish 2mm model.

 

These pictures on Twitter are also useful for seats and interior in an A43:

 

https://twitter.com/ExeValleyRail/status/758716918966652928/photo/1

 

https://twitter.com/ExeValleyRail/status/651849570243186688/photo/1

 

 

Edited by Douglas G
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I have just got Great Western Railway Journal number 73 for the photo on page 55 of the interior of an A38 coach in 1964.

 

Pete S (K14) is quite right - it looks to be "Sprig & Octopus", as shown here:

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/cw/moquette/1950s.html

 

I can see how in views from outside it would appear to be a solid reddish brown - the pattern is not that obvious at a distance. Humbrol 100 is the closest colour, I think.

 

Interestingly the floor is a medium grey colour - from preserved A38 coaches I expected it to be an orangey brown.

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  • 3 weeks later...

And another view.

 

6 different colours, including Humbrol 100 for the seats and 87 for the grey of the floor in the passenger compartments and central vestibule (different from the red or brown seen in photos of preserved A38 coaches).

P1020063.JPG

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