Restoring an old K's Dean goods

[hayfield]

David

 

I do have some old K's wheels which I think may be from a Dean Goods (21.5mm) , probably no good but never threw them away, don't know why as I will never use them

 

John

[rynd2it]

Hi John,

I acquired this loco for my planned EM gauge project and I'm researching axles, wheels etc right now. However, I may just clean it and donate it to the Club as an OO gauge - it's basically brand new, the motor runs really well, all I need is a gear wheel.

 

 

[hayfield]

David

 

Strange in 4 mm scale I am also converting to EM gauge, I have 3 of these, one was the first kit I bought which I will keep, I have a Perseverance chassis fpr an EM example and I will get round to selling the third some time

 

I have plenty of Romford 21 mm drivers for the EM gauge one, I do have a GW models wheel press once I start to use Gibson's  I have converted another K's loco to EM gauge simply by sticking a piece of 40 thou plasticard to one side, then drill out the axle holes from the other side, repeat this on the second side and the outer frames are fine for EM gauge, using black plasticard saves painting, just use Romford?Markit or Gibson wheels with EM gauge axles. For my own use I would still bin the motor, if using the High Level gearbox no worries about gears

 

As for your worm gear I thought K's were push on and had a brass sleeve, if so it may be a Romford worm, if so I have no idea about the ratio

[rynd2it]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

David

 

Strange in 4 mm scale I am also converting to EM gauge, I have 3 of these, one was the first kit I bought which I will keep, I have a Perseverance chassis fpr an EM example and I will get round to selling the third some time

 

I have plenty of Romford 21 mm drivers for the EM gauge one, I do have a GW models wheel press once I start to use Gibson's  I have converted another K's loco to EM gauge simply by sticking a piece of 40 thou plasticard to one side, then drill out the axle holes from the other side, repeat this on the second side and the outer frames are fine for EM gauge, using black plasticard saves painting, just use Romford?Markit or Gibson wheels with EM gauge axles. For my own use I would still bin the motor, if using the High Level gearbox no worries about gears

 

As for your worm gear I thought K's were push on and had a brass sleeve, if so it may be a Romford worm, if so I have no idea about the ratio

 

The more I research this, the bigger the project is getting (now where have I heard that before!) - and now I am hearing quite a lot about how the old K's kits weren't that great to begin with. I might just go with the OO rebuild, I can always stick it on Ebay and start again with a more modern detailed model. I'll decide later when I have finished looking for bits

 

David

[Brassey]

I've built a number of Dean Goods including one which started as a K's.  For info, High Level gearboxes come as a flat etch and need forming and the bushes soldering in and filing down to fit within the frames.  You'll need a reamer or broach to open out  the bushes to get the axles to fit.

[rynd2it]

2 hours ago, Brassey said:

I've built a number of Dean Goods including one which started as a K's.  For info, High Level gearboxes come as a flat etch and need forming and the bushes soldering in and filing down to fit within the frames.  You'll need a reamer or broach to open out  the bushes to get the axles to fit.

Thanks for that - more knowledge added to my ever-growing list ;-)

 

 

[hayfield]

David

 

The one alluring thing about whitemetal kits is their weight, something a far more detailed plastic RTR body cannot replicate. Neither can the plastic RTR body give the pleasure of building something yourself.

 

Yes if you buy all the new component parts suggested it can be expensive, as I said I am always on the lookout for potential spares which I can use for either new builds of refurbishments, example I recently bought a Hornby Dublo 2-6-4T for £50 inc postage, it had a RG4 motor which is well worth the £50 on its own, has Romford/Markit wheels which when bought new would cost £50 and a Comet chassis which is £42 new and unbuilt. I would expect  I could get at least £20 each for the wheels and chassis if I sold them separately, making my RG4 £10 or less

 

Back to your model I would get a set of Romford/Markit gears, if you can rebuild the chassis into a free running chassis (with a gear wheel on it) then at little cost you can see if you can have a low cost serviceable chassis

 

Even better fit a High Level gearbox if the chassis rebuild fails then you still have a decent gearbox for the next project. If either of these ideas work you can go to the next step and use/sort out the motor. Nothing like a nice little project to keep yourself amused. 

[rynd2it]

Quote

 

Hi John,

Yes, that's the plan I'm starting on, step by step and learning all the way  I have a quote for the Romford wheels and axles already and I'm looking at the High Level gearboxes.

Time will tell

David

[rynd2it]

Hi John,

 

Not wanting to force anything - do you know if the tender wheels are a push fit on the axle and could they be opened out to EM gauge?

 

Thanks

 

David

[hayfield]

David

 

I think they are very similar to the Romford style, so in theory yes.

 

The big but is if they are not pin point axles.

 

One of my friends years ago using a drill and a file made rounded ones into pin points and put bearings into the axle holes

 

Or buy something like a Comet Models tender chassis and cut off the axle ends and fit inside bearings (Comet tender frames rather than chassis)

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

[rynd2it]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

David

 

I think they are very similar to the Romford style, so in theory yes.

 

The big but is if they are not pin point axles.

 

 

They are pin point axles so I'll give it a try as soon as my wheel puller arrives

 

Thanks

 

David

[rynd2it]

While sorting out the wheels etc, I decided to strip the paint as it's too thickly applied and shiny. I wanted to do it without using a chemical that would break the glue joints; I asked around and was told to use Dettol - it works and it can be strained afterwards & reused. Useful tip

 

David

[rynd2it]

On 07/05/2019 at 16:38, rynd2it said:

While sorting out the wheels etc, I decided to strip the paint as it's too thickly applied and shiny. I wanted to do it without using a chemical that would break the glue joints; I asked around and was told to use Dettol - it works and it can be strained afterwards & reused. Useful tip

 

David

Update, wear rubber gloves - my hands smell like a hospital

 

[stevejjjexcov]

Hi hayfield, have just read the thread and its my belief the yellowish green primer is old etch primer made for white metal kits by phenoix paints. Good if well thinned for the airbrush but a bu###r to brush paint. I'm not sure if its available any more. If I remember it was difficult to get off once it had cured.

All the best

Steve

[rynd2it]

On 08/05/2019 at 17:57, rynd2it said:

Update, wear rubber gloves - my hands smell like a hospital

 

Update, I was misinformed, Dettol does dissolve the glue - I now have a kit of parts

 

[hayfield]

I think you are far better off rebuilding it rather than just painting it. My own preference is to use low melt 70 degree solder for the larger parts, I use an Antex 25 watt iron on the larger parts and a good (industrial strength) super glue for the smaller parts. Any gaps I fill with Green Squadron filler softened with liquid poly (so its nice and runny) or Milliput leaving both for 24 hours before sanding

 

If gluing is your preference rather than two part epoxy, initially I would go for mitre bond (2 part superglue) or an industrial grade superglue, for larger parts the joint can be strengthened with 2 part epoxy behind the joint

 

I think you will find its a blessing in disguise, even if it makes a bit more work 

 

Edit

 

Mitre bond available from the likes of Wicks/B&Q/ Screw fix etc and is used by those fitting kitchens and windows, in 2 parts one the glue the other an activator (aerosol or marker pen)

I got my industrial strength super glue from a tool shop, in a bigger bottle and far stronger) mine is Ever Build Stick 2 others are available 

Edited May 10, 2019 by hayfield

[Steamport Southport]

Yep. If it's fallen to bits with a bit of Dettol then it would have probably started to dismantle eventually anyway.

 

 

Jason

[rynd2it]

18 hours ago, hayfield said:

I think you are far better off rebuilding it rather than just painting it. My own preference is to use low melt 70 degree solder for the larger parts, I use an Antex 25 watt iron on the larger parts and a good (industrial strength) super glue for the smaller parts. Any gaps I fill with Green Squadron filler softened with liquid poly (so its nice and runny) or Milliput leaving both for 24 hours before sanding

 

If gluing is your preference rather than two part epoxy, initially I would go for mitre bond (2 part superglue) or an industrial grade superglue, for larger parts the joint can be strengthened with 2 part epoxy behind the joint

 

I think you will find its a blessing in disguise, even if it makes a bit more work 

 

Edit

 

Mitre bond available from the likes of Wicks/B&Q/ Screw fix etc and is used by those fitting kitchens and windows, in 2 parts one the glue the other an activator (aerosol or marker pen)

I got my industrial strength super glue from a tool shop, in a bigger bottle and far stronger) mine is Ever Build Stick 2 others are available 

 

Definitely a blessing in disguise and I appreciate the tips on glue & solder - thanks.

 

I haven't done the tender yet so I guess it's back to the Dettol, may as well get my money's worth ;-)

 

Cheers

 

 

[hayfield]

It will make testing the chassis much easier and I would look to get an etched tender chassis to make a proper job, or at least fit pin point bearings into it

[rynd2it]

14 minutes ago, hayfield said:

It will make testing the chassis much easier and I would look to get an etched tender chassis to make a proper job, or at least fit pin point bearings into it

 

Pin point bearings are  a good idea, I'll follow that up

 

[rynd2it]

Hi John,

 

Cheeky question, by any chance do you have kits building instructions that you might be able to share with me. I suspect there may be some sequences and painting instructions that I'm unaware of

 

Thanks

 

David

[hayfield]

David 

 

Sorry I don't have any, I bought my first loco in the seventies and the instructions are long lost, I do have a set of the Bulldog instructions where the tender is the same, sequence of build much the same (all be it a 4-4-0) and basic livery details will be the same

 

On the back of the HMRS transfers there are much better livery  details. 

 

The body build sequence is as follows make the following sub assemblies

 

Footplate, fit the front and middle wheel splashers and fix the 8 ba nut in the cab end

Glue the boiler halves

Make the fire box

Make the cab

 

Next build the chassis, and get it working,

Fit the footplate and check for clearances

Then attach Cab, firebox then boiler, checking at each stage for free running and shorts

Fit remaining details body details

[rynd2it]

Thank you very much for this, it will be a great help.

 

David

[DCB]

On 11/05/2019 at 11:00, rynd2it said:

 

Pin point bearings are  a good idea, I'll follow that up

 

Pin point bearings are a great idea if your layout doesn't have any curves. The rounded end axles allow some sideplay which gets the tender round reasonable radius, say 2ft, curves.  I think your driving wheels are essentially scrap, you could spend hours patiently polishing the treads with fine emery but with the fragile centres you can't spin them in a drill chuck as you would a Romford or the D gets damaged and you lose the quartering. Actually I find they work themselves loose in service anyway.   I tried to rebuild a K's Dean.  I rebuilt the chassis with Romfords, compared the body to an Airfix and decided to use the Airfix body instead.  Then the chassis was a total PITA so I fitted a modified Hornby B12 chassis with the trailing axle hole re drilled using Mainline 57XX rods and adapted a Romford double ended motor to take a Trang Dock shunter armature and filed away big chunks of chassis to make it fit with drive to the leading axle.  Then the tender played up and so I used a Dapol City of Truro  tender...

 I reckon about 100% of the original is back in my scrap box.