Graham Farish announcements for 2015/6

[Karhedron]

I want a 64xx but the price increase means I may not bother getting it from Hattons. At that price I might as well get it from my local model shop (which works out almost the same by the time you take the £4 P&P into account).

 

I wonder if Bachmann changed their policy on discounts specifically to support smaller stores who cannot afford to discount as muchas the big box shifters?

[Karhedron]

The SKs as they have been produced only cover numbers 26-80. In SKs 81-130 the roof water tanks for the lavatories were longer and mounted slightly inboard of the ones in the earlier vehicles (hence 'long tank'), but the diagram wasn't changed. The Farish SOs have these larger tanks so you can see the difference. If you can ignore this then the existing SKs could do.

Thanks for the info. I have taken a look at the roofs and I can see what you mean. Shame the vents are in different places or I would do a roof swap. I think that the tank size issue is small enough that I could probably live with the standard SKs.

[grahame]

I wonder if Bachmann changed their policy on discounts specifically to support smaller stores who cannot afford to discount as muchas the big box shifters?

Hmm, interesting speculation. But, whether deliberate or not, it may potentially have assisted them. And that's not a bad thing.

 

G.

[John M Upton]

The price of my pre-ordered ScotRail Class 47/7 has just gone up as well which is surprising as I thought they were already on the boat.

[bennyboy]

I wonder if Bachmann changed their policy on discounts specifically to support smaller stores who cannot afford to discount as muchas the big box shifters?

 

I can't think of any other reason why they would do it.

[cornish trains jez]

Latest pre-order price increases just received from Hattons. Merchant Navy's up to £135.96 from £127.46 and 4MT Tanks up to £97.71 from £84.11. 

 

When the Merchant Navy was announced in March 2012, the RRP was £138.95 and is now £159.95 which is more or less a 15% increase.

 

Tom.

 

The A2's are showing £159 on the Farish website. Hope rails honour my preorder price at £127.

[Kris]

I want a 64xx but the price increase means I may not bother getting it from Hattons. At that price I might as well get it from my local model shop (which works out almost the same by the time you take the £4 P&P into account).

 

Just cancelled my pre order with Hattons. Going with a local store instead. Still showing the older (cheaper prices). I doubt that I will get it at that price, but at least they don't promise that you will.

[Revolution Mike]

I wonder if Bachmann changed their policy on discounts specifically to support smaller stores who cannot afford to discount as muchas the big box shifters?

 

 I didn't think that there was any doubt about this - Bachmann were reasonably open about it when they introduced their max 15% off RRP for X weeks policy.

 

Cheers, Mike

[John M Upton]

Now I am getting emails from Hattons telling me my pre-orders for items announced just two weeks ago have now gone up in price - already!!

 

The weedkiller coaches and tanks in this instance.

 

Not overly impressed....

[Les1952]

Talking to a dealer setting up at Nottingham his take is that when he places an order with a manufacturer for a number of locos-

 

Hornby honour the price stated at the time of his order.

Dapol honour the price stated at the time of his order.

Bachmann DON'T honour the price and impose price rises on the order before delivery.

 

As a result if he takes pre-orders he either has to absorb those price rises himself (selling at a loss if the rise is big or the model delayed) or pass them on to his customers.

 

All the very best

Les

[Roy L S]

From what I read in another forum it may not even be as "simple" as absorbing the price increase or selling at a loss. Given that Bachmann impose a max discount of 15% from RRP for the first 12 weeks of release they couldn't sell for the original price even if they wanted to.

 

I have to admit while on the one hand I can see that the imposed max 15% discount may level the playing field for all retailers for a time and from what I gather if only for a limited time at release is perfectly legal, it seems to completely contradict the idea of having a free market and certainly doesn't appear to work for the bigger retailers like Hattons.

 

For example, knowing there is no "guarantee"  how many people now will be encouraged to pre-order a model at announcement knowing there could be a lead time of 2 - 3 years before it arrives if there is no certainty of the price they pay at the end of it? (which is surely part of the reason for doing it?). Might as well wait until release and then decide or better still 12 weeks from release for a potential discount beyond 15% (if any retailer actually does apply one which seems surprisingly rare).

 

Roy 

[TomE]

Might as well wait until release and then decide or better still 12 weeks from release for a potential discount beyond 15% (if any retailer actually does apply one which seems surprisingly rare).

 

Roy 

 

I can think of only one instance of a retailer dropping prices after this period and that was Rails with the Princess Coronations. I can see the reasons behind Bachmann's approach but from a retailers point of view, if you can sell something at a 15% discount why drop it further? It's a win for Bachmann and a win for the retailer.

 

I was interested to note that the RRP and thus the pre-order price for the A2s has been increased, particulary given these actually arrived some time ago but then had to be returned to China due to a manufacturing fault. It seems poor form to make customers who have pre-ordered the A2 pay more when the extended delay is out of their hands and is the manufacturers issue.

 

Tom.

[Roy L S]

As someone who has had an A2 on order since they were first announced I agree, very poor form as is hiking the prices of the 4F and 31 about two weeks before release when they were clearly pretty close to (if not already) in the warehouse.

 

I guess we don't know the impact on Hattons or similar larger retailers as far as sales go, but from what I am reading it is pretty clear that not being able to honour "guaranteed" pre-order prices following recent price hikes has created much bad will and it seems a fair number of cancellations.  

 

Logically if people are charged one price at release and the price were to drop after 12 weeks there would be a lot disgruntled customers so maybe that is why nobody has routinely applied a bigger discount later.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[mokjumbo]

As someone who has had an A2 on order since they were first announced I agree, very poor form as is hiking the prices of the 4F and 31 about two weeks before release when they were clearly pretty close to (if not already) in the warehouse.

 

I guess we don't know the impact on Hattons or similar larger retailers as far as sales go, but from what I am reading it is pretty clear that not being able to honour "guaranteed" pre-order prices following recent price hikes has created much bad will and it seems a fair number of cancellations.  

 

Logically if people are charged one price at release and the price were to drop after 12 weeks there would be a lot disgruntled customers so maybe that is why nobody has routinely applied a bigger discount later.

 

Regards

 

Roy

Tell that to Hornby.The Brighton Belle that was ONLY available from them at £199 and is now on sale in various places at prices as low as £119.99.

[cornish trains jez]

With regards to preorders, maybe they should be "paid pre-orders". That way the likes of Farish cannot romp the price up once the model is released as its already been paid for. Then they get their money early and have a better idea of how popular a particular model is. Good for the manufacturer and the end user.

[Roy L S]

From what Les has said pre-payment would make no difference at all if Bachmann's terms of trade do not fix prices before delivery, as the retailer would have all the same issues as with pre-orders in terms of restrictions on discounting.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[cornish trains jez]

What I was trying to say is that a "paid for pre-order price" does not change and those that are happy to pay "up front" get the benefit of the initial price. Those who wait for release end up paying the over inflated final release price. Simples!

[Roy L S]

The trouble with that idea is that in the case of Bachmann, from what Les says above they do not fix a price with the retailer at the point of announcing the model, they do so when they supply the model and then restrict the discount they will allow meaning the modeller pre-paying at launch doesn't work at all for the retailer.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[acko22]

Roy,

 

I agree with what your saying above.

However if Hattons offer a pre order at say 85 pounds 2 years before they arrive then thats their gamble not farish or ours and in the current case they would have lost out.

 

My local model shop wont do pre orders for that reason he says it is wrong to offer a price have a customer pay only to tell them when it arrives its going to cost x amount extra. Plus he doesnt want to hold on to some one elses money for god knows how long.

[msw2009]

Tell that to Hornby.The Brighton Belle that was ONLY available from them at £199 and is now on sale in various places at prices as low as £119.99.

 

Appreciate this is off topic, but does anyone know who is selling the Brighton Belle for £119? 

 

M

[mokjumbo]

Appreciate this is off topic, but does anyone know who is selling the Brighton Belle for £119? 

 

M

Hi I bought mine from Locomotion,but I`m fairly sure they sold out very quickly.

[Budgie]

Logically if people are charged one price at release and the price were to drop after 12 weeks there would be a lot disgruntled customers so maybe that is why nobody has routinely applied a bigger discount later.

If the box-shifters are allowed to apply deeper discounts after 12 weeks, why don't they tell their pre-orderers that if they can have it at one price on release, but if they wait for 3 months after the model is released they can have it cheaper? To prevent the model selling out in the meantime they (the box-shifters) can keep sufficient in storage to meet those pre-orders.

[scruff]

As Bachmann's reason for the price increases is the result of 20% year on year increase in wages in China, how does that equate to a 20% increase in RRP as I would have thought labour costs were only a part of the total costs of a model?

 

Cheers

Mark

[bennyboy]

If the box-shifters are allowed to apply deeper discounts after 12 weeks, why don't they tell their pre-orderers that if they can have it at one price on release, but if they wait for 3 months after the model is released they can have it cheaper? To prevent the model selling out in the meantime they (the box-shifters) can keep sufficient in storage to meet those pre-orders.

So you want retailers to keep a stock of locos that they can't actually sell for three months? I can't see any of them wanting to do that.

 

The thing is if you really want to guarantee that you get a loco then you are going to have to pre-order and pay the price on release day, if you want a discount then you are going to have to take a risk and play the waiting game. One of the big box shifters has accurate stock levels for each product, so unless a model sells out very quickly, you can just be patient and monitor their stock levels.

[frobisher]

As Bachmann's reason for the price increases is the result of 20% year on year increase in wages in China, how does that equate to a 20% increase in RRP as I would have thought labour costs were only a part of the total costs of a model?

You're assuming that we're only seeing the effects of one year's wages increases being passed through. At a rough guess, Bachmann will have to cover the current year plus the next year's increases at a bare minimum, plus any projected rise in costs along the entire supply chain.