Graham Farish announcements for 2015/6

[Revolution Ben]

As Bachmann's reason for the price increases is the result of 20% year on year increase in wages in China, how does that equate to a 20% increase in RRP as I would have thought labour costs were only a part of the total costs of a model?

 

Cheers

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

When I spoke to Bachmann about this at their summer event last year the cost of labour was only one of the problems they faced.

 

Others include retention of staff and associated replacement/retraining costs  (there are apocryphal stories of middle managers receiving at job offer by text, leaving for their lunch break and joining a new employer down the road that afternoon!) and a change in policy - previously costs were amortised across the range (so cheap big selling models tended to subsidise more expensive, poorer sellers) but that isn't happening now - hence the high price for the Polybulks.

 

Other reasons I can't quite remember now were also given that contribute to the 20% total.

 

To be fair to Bachmann they hardly have a history of profiteering - indeed, we can all agree I think that compared to continental Europe our prices are low - and I'm inclined to accept their reasons for the price increase.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[acko22]

Going to agree the price in the UK is cheaper than a good number Of models.

 

I think with the end of the model boom we have seen in recent years we are going to see the end of highly discounted models.

 

The question I have is as what is going to happen after the period of consolidation how do we see the market as a whole shaping.

[scruff]

Hi Paddy, I was going off the fact that we had a steep price increase last year and again this year. I understand that prices will inevitably rise but was questioning the amount. For example: Hattons were selling 371-015 Br blue class 08 for £46 around 2 years ago and now 371-015C is now advertised at £76 odd. That's not RRP, that is the price off the shelf at the same retailer for essentially the same item. Where is it going to end?

 

Ben, Thank you for your reply, I had heard about the staff problems the Chinese are having. Hopefully Bachmann will slow these price rises down because at the current rate of increases us lot in the UK will soon be paying more for our models than what they pay in Europe and I wouldn't want to see any company suffer from the obvious drop in demand that these price rises will inevitably bring.

For example I have taken 3 loco's out of 5 that I would have bought off my list because I'm not personally feeling any signs of the economic recovery that is supposed to be happening. I just hope others are feeling it more!  

 

Cheers

Mark

[bennyboy]

Hi Paddy, I was going off the fact that we had a steep price increase last year and again this year. I understand that prices will inevitably rise but was questioning the amount. For example: Hattons were selling 371-015 Br blue class 08 for £46 around 2 years ago and now 371-015C is now advertised at £76 odd. That's not RRP, that is the price off the shelf at the same retailer for essentially the same item. Where is it going to end?

 

Cheers

Mark

But don't forget that the two year old model would have had the maximum discount that Hattons thought that they could get away with and still make a profit, whereas the other model only has the maximum discount that is allowed by Bachmann's for new models.

[Ozexpatriate]

Forgive me if this is covered here elsewhere (I've searched, but not personally read all seven pages of this topic thread) but the Farish train packs look really interesting.

Particularly "The Landship Train - First World War Tanks by Rail - Special Commemorative Edition"

 

It's not often that 00 fans get jealous of N gauge fans. On this item I am.
 

[N Gauge David]

From what I read in another forum it may not even be as "simple" as absorbing the price increase or selling at a loss. Given that Bachmann impose a max discount of 15% from RRP for the first 12 weeks of release they couldn't sell for the original price even if they wanted to.

 

I have to admit while on the one hand I can see that the imposed max 15% discount may level the playing field for all retailers for a time and from what I gather if only for a limited time at release is perfectly legal, it seems to completely contradict the idea of having a free market and certainly doesn't appear to work for the bigger retailers like Hattons.

 

For example, knowing there is no "guarantee" how many people now will be encouraged to pre-order a model at announcement knowing there could be a lead time of 2 - 3 years before it arrives if there is no certainty of the price they pay at the end of it? (which is surely part of the reason for doing it?). Might as well wait until release and then decide or better still 12 weeks from release for a potential discount beyond 15% (if any retailer actually does apply one which seems surprisingly rare).

 

Roy

I don't think any manufacturer can legally "impose" a price or discount on a retailer. It is strictly against competition laws to do so. The first R in RRP stands for Recommended which is the most a manufacturer can do

[acko22]

David,

You are right they can't impose a maximum discount. But what they can do is sell at an initial price to the shops then offer them discount down the line in effect forcing to sell the items at RRP till later down the line.

[mjkerr]

I was a retailer for Hornby and Lima in the early 1990s

You enter into a contract, that they will supply stock, but any new stock must be sold at no lower than a specified amount during its launch period, afterwards any price can be applied

If you breach the contract then it will be terminated

 

I used to order the absolute minimum for launch, with a follow up order

Effectively I made a loss on that launch stock as the margin was lower than existing stock

 

This is why retailers strictly follow this practice

We have seen it in the past where retailers tried to bypass this, but ended up being black-balled

[Roy L S]

In reply to N Gauge David's post (157) above. I believe it has been covered elsewhere on this Forum but from what I understand it is not illegal or a breach of competition rules to restrict discounts retailers can apply on newly launched products so long as it is only for a limited period as is the case with what Bachmann have imposed.

 

Roy

[frobisher]

In reply to N Gauge David's post (157) above. I believe it has been covered elsewhere on this Forum but from what I understand it is not illegal or a breach of competition rules to restrict discounts retailers can apply on newly launched products so long as it is only for a limited period as is the case with what Bachmann have imposed.

The timescale of the discount is nothing to do with it, beyond a courtesy to allow the retailer to clear stock at lower prices after the initial release. The retailer can sell the stock at whatever price they choose at any point but similarly the manufacturer can choose who they sell stock to at a future time.

[John M Upton]

There was a trader at Ally Pally who had to put the odd six pence on the Bachmann stock price tickets but in reality were just charging to the nearest pound (I.e. knocking the odd 6p off at point if sale) because if anyone from Bachmann had seen them on sale at a penny less they would have had their supply contract terminated.

 

Riddiculous!!!!

[Roy L S]

Hi Frobisher

 

For sure a Bachmann/Farish retailer can sell at any price they choose from launch and totally disregard the imposed 15% if they want to. That is so long as they don't mind the risk of not being supplied again.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[frobisher]

Which is what I said You were asserting that the limited timescale is what allowed the agreement to be legal which isn't the case.

[Roy L S]

Hi Frobisher

 

I simply referred to what others had already said as regards one of the reasons for restricting discount being legal being because it is limited by time. With hindsight it would have paid to do my own research because having done so from what I can find that 12 weeks has nothing to do with the legality so my apologies.

 

Clearly there are a number of other factors which actually make the practice legal, from what I have read (and please correct me if I am still wrong) principal amongst these is that there is '"agreement" between manufacturer/supplier and each seller, the consequences of not agreeing being that the manufacturer is under no obligation to supply and that is the crux of it.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[TomE]

Gents, forgive me for being a party pooper, but the pricing policy was discussed to thread lock here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53592-Bachmann-pricing-policy-to-retailers/?hl=%20bachmann%20%20price%20%20policyand I'm getting a distinct sense of déjà vu!

 

Tom.

[woodenhead]

I'm getting the urge to hide this thread myself.

[Bomag]

I'm getting the urge to hide this thread myself.

 

Thanks for that - we are much relieved by knowing that.

 

Adding something to the debate - I was trying to get one of the new 31 and new livery 37s only to find that the local shops had sold out. Great you may think (for local shops) but both identified that they had ordered the minimum number at release and were ordeing some more on the basis that they had greater freedom on pricing on subsequent batches (they did not go into detail). So now on I may have to add a couple of months onto the release before I expect to get a model!

[Crepello]

The PGAs have been reduced to one (ARC) in the new Farish catalogue. I reckon a new tooling version is a good bet for 2017 as they can be hauled by numerous diesel classes and could be produced in several liveries. Perhaps Bachmann ought to stake their claim pretty swiftly?

[justin1985]

Just found these pictures from Bachmann's stand at Ally Pally last month - thought they might be of interest. Several forthcoming releases of interest like the 47/7 and the Southern N Class and pacifics. Sorry about the poor colour and brightness from my phone!

 

 

 

 

 

[WesternKing]

No sign of the new class 40's yet nearly a year after they were announced :-/

[John M Upton]

Considering that Farish and Bachmann's lead time from announcement to production is average eighteen months to two years then you have a while to wait yet.

 

Still better than DDapol's lead times which can stretch to half a decade and probably more at the rate they are going!

[cornish trains jez]

It might be wiser this year for the manufacturers to concentrate on releasing previously announced models and get them out on the shelves rather than announcing new stuff which will not even appear for few years anyway.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[WesternKing]

Considering that Farish and Bachmann's lead time from announcement to production is average eighteen months to two years then you have a while to wait yet.

 

Still better than DDapol's lead times which can stretch to half a decade and probably more at the rate they are going!

Just received an update from Hatton's on the Farish class 40's - June/July 2017 :-/

[TomE]

Latest Farish release schedule as seen at Alexandra Palace over the weekend:

 

 

Tom. 

[talisman56]

£30+ for a GUV? Pass the smelling salts...