Who wants a newly tooled Class 91?

[MGR Hooper!]

As for the 89, an obvious basket-case.....except that other one-offs such as Lion, Kestrel, Falcon and DP2 have all sold. Something for Heljan I suspect.

 

But before any of them, surely a new 86 correct for the 1960s-80s (with and without flexicoil suspension) should be first in line.

Heljan haven't touched these one-off type locos for a long time. So I doubt we'll see anything of the sort from Heljan anytime soon especially with today's prices.

 

Rumours seem to suggest that KMRC will do a Class 89 due to their increase in amount of postings about it on social media and them actually asking about it on social media.

 

No point in anyone else doing a Class 86, Heljan are already re-tooling their Class 86 and they're doing all variations. So no point in anyone else doing it.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[brushman47544]

No point in anyone else doing a Class 86, Heljan are already re-tooling their Class 86 and they're doing all variations. So no point in anyone else doing it.

 

When was that announced? Good news though, provided they scrap the bodyside grills and do them properly and accurately as Hornby has done on the new 87. Otherwise Heljan might as well not bother.

[MGR Hooper!]

When was that announced? Good news though, provided they scrap the bodyside grills and do them properly and accurately as Hornby has done on the new 87. Otherwise Heljan might as well not bother.

Last month sometime. TBH I have my doubts seeing Heljan's track record. I am hoping that with Ben Jones now at the head and their recent release in the form of the OO gauge Class 07, that the Class 86 will be a great improvement.

[TravisM]

I dare say that the different end of TSOE could be done as part of the tooling options, so avoided a fifth separate coach being tooled. Whilst a 91 plus Mk4s doesn't interest me at all, it does stand out as crying for new version. The 85 and 87 were to all intents and purposes WCML locos, so what's the difference with the 91 being ECML only? And as long as they do get cascaded elsewhere, they will still be in use when any new versions arrive. If left for too long, however, and they are all withdrawn from main line service then I would question the financial case for retooling.

When the Class 91’s and Mk IV’s first entered service, several were tested on the WCML as possible use on the Euston-Manchester services. Now that they are about to be cascaded from the ECML, there is talk of them going onto the WCML to form a Blackpool-Euston service with another operator and just the Mk IV’s on the Holyhead-Cardiff route as their disability compliant, so there’s more opportunities for more liveries.

[classy52]

Only just seen this thread and voted but over 3 years later good to see Hornby is listening 

[MGR Hooper!]

Only just seen this thread and voted but over 3 years later good to see Hornby is listening 

Listening to who? 

Edited November 19, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[classy52]

Listening to who?

 

Let me see, ummm their customer base i.e. maybe this thread and that is a big maybe.

Over 3 years since this thread was started and still no re-tooled Class 91 from Hornby or any current or future plans to do it.

 

Did DaveClass47 send the results of this threads poll to Hornby?

Edited November 19, 2018 by classy52

[MGR Hooper!]

Let me see, ummm their customer base i.e. maybe this thread and that is a big maybe.

Over 3 years since this thread was started and still no re-tooled Class 91 from Hornby or any current or future plans to do it.

 

Did DaveClass47 send the results of this threads poll to Hornby?

True...but are they actually listening??

[classy52]

Listening to who? 

 

True...but are they actually listening??

 

MGR as you know I was being sarcastic, I know they're not listening let alone making the effort to come on here and read some sense from their customers.

What Daveclass47 did was pretty good and a shame we are nearly 4 years down the track with no sign of a re-tooled 91...over to someone else me thinks. 

[DaveClass47]

MGR as you know I was being sarcastic, I know they're not listening let alone making the effort to come on here and read some sense from their customers.

What Daveclass47 did was pretty good and a shame we are nearly 4 years down the track with no sign of a re-tooled 91...over to someone else me thinks. 

I still believe Hornby will do it.  Back in 2016 when they announced the Class 87 they were quoted as saying that the 87 just beat the Class 91 in that decision.   So the 91 is on their radar and 30 years on from their first efforts I believe its nearly time.   Some one is going to do it!  If Hornby can niche locos such as the 71 etc then surely a widely known and iconic east coast machine such as the 91 and mk4 stock must be near (or at?) the top of the list by now??  I live in hope!

[classy52]

I still believe Hornby will do it.  Back in 2016 when they announced the Class 87 they were quoted as saying that the 87 just beat the Class 91 in that decision.   So the 91 is on their radar and 30 years on from their first efforts I believe its nearly time.   Some one is going to do it!  If Hornby can niche locos such as the 71 etc then surely a widely known and iconic east coast machine such as the 91 and mk4 stock must be near (or at?) the top of the list by now??  I live in hope!

 

DaveClass47 the eternal optimist, love your spirit and yes really hope Hornby do this and give me an excuse to buy something off them in the future.

[Islesy]

I know they're not listening let alone making the effort to come on here and read some sense from their customers.

And how, exactly, would you know that?

[cravensdmufan]

No point in anyone else doing a Class 86, Heljan are already re-tooling their Class 86 and they're doing all variations. So no point in anyone else doing it.

I'd still prefer Hornby to do a brand new 86 - to the same standard as their excellent 87 (but with improvements to lighting and better provision for decoder and sound installation).

 

I find Heljan locos tend to be power hungry, and slow.  A good lively loco like the Hornby 87 would be just the job as far as I'm concerned.

 

Re: the original OP.  Yes, I would like a newly tooled 91 + DVT + mk4's but if I were a manufacturer I'd put it as a lower priority than an 86.  Would be a much better seller due to longetivity in BR service and were used in wider areas of the country. 

[cravensdmufan]

I know they're not listening let alone making the effort to come on here and read some sense from their customers.

. 

In all fairness Paul and his colleagues at Hornby certainly did listen and contribute on the Class 87 thread when their loco was in the development stages.

[classy52]

And how, exactly, would you know that?

 

I don't but maybe the few years since this thread was started there hasn't been anything to date anywhere in regards to the 91 to say otherwise, feathers are bit ruffled are they Mr Hornby Reseacher???

I see the Hornby attacks dogs are out tonight 

[MGR Hooper!]

MGR as you know I was being sarcastic, I know they're not listening let alone making the effort to come on here and read some sense from their customers.

What Daveclass47 did was pretty good and a shame we are nearly 4 years down the track with no sign of a re-tooled 91...over to someone else me thinks.

Yes I'm aware of that. I added an emoji as I thought you'd misunderstood the post.

 

PS: Hornby do read RMweb. Have you tried talking to Paul Isles? True gentleman and absolutely a pleasure to talk to.

[MGR Hooper!]

I'd still prefer Hornby to do a brand new 86 - to the same standard as their excellent 87 (but with improvements to lighting and better provision for decoder and sound installation).

 

I find Heljan locos tend to be power hungry, and slow. A good lively loco like the Hornby 87 would be just the job as far as I'm concerned.

 

Re: the original OP. Yes, I would like a newly tooled 91 + DVT + mk4's but if I were a manufacturer I'd put it as a lower priority than an 86. Would be a much better seller due to longetivity in BR service and were used in wider areas of the country.

I'd prefer a Class 86 from the Hornby stable too... I'd choose Hornby over Heljan any day. But they are a little slow to react and I think Heljan has swooped down and gotten the Class 86

[MGR Hooper!]

In all fairness Paul and his colleagues at Hornby certainly did listen and contribute on the Class 87 thread when their loco was in the development stages.

Absolutely! I've personally had many interactions with Paul on the messaging facility here... He's been more than happy to lend a ear and listen patiently.

[MGR Hooper!]

I don't but maybe the few years since this thread was started there hasn't been anything to date anywhere in regards to the 91 to say otherwise, feathers are bit ruffled are they Mr Hornby Reseacher???

I see the Hornby attacks dogs are out tonight

Mostly because at the time when Hornby had the Class 91 and Class 87 on their minds they chose the Class 87 as it would've been cheaper.

 

Also best to see how well the Class 87 does before jumping to the Class 91. Sadly with the delay in the Class 87s arrival we may need to wait

[classy52]

Yes I'm aware of that. I added an emoji as I thought you'd misunderstood the post.

 

PS: Hornby do read RMweb. Have you tried talking to Paul Isles? True gentleman and absolutely a pleasure to talk to.

 

Ok that's good, no I didn't but as you know sometimes text doesn't come across as it should.

 

I'd prefer a Class 86 from the Hornby stable too... I'd choose Hornby over Heljan any day. But they are a little slow to react and I think Heljan has swooped down and gotten the Class 86

 

Yes agreed, when Hornby do things right like the Class 43 HST, Class 56, Class 60, Class 67 and re-tooled Class 31 (ones for my modern era) they are great products thus do hope they take on re-tooling the Class 86 and in Freightliner liveries which I'm sure would be a given.

 

Absolutely! I've personally had many interactions with Paul on the messaging facility here... He's been more than happy to lend a ear and listen patiently.

 

Do we know if Paul has responded to this thread or to DaveClass47?...maybe DaveClass47 can respond to this.

Has anyone else got information from Hornby in regards to any plans to re-tooling the Class 91?...would be shocked if no one has messaged him directly already about this subject but maybe they have but not shared the information.

 

Anyway, like I've said before would love to see Hornby do this and it's a shame they couldn't get ahead of the game with the Class 90 and Class 92 and looks like the Class 86 will also be done by somebody else which also would be a shame.

[Marcyg]

I'd still prefer Hornby to do a brand new 86 - to the same standard as their excellent 87 (but with improvements to lighting and better provision for decoder and sound installation).

 

I find Heljan locos tend to be power hungry, and slow.  A good lively loco like the Hornby 87 would be just the job as far as I'm concerned.

 

Re: the original OP.  Yes, I would like a newly tooled 91 + DVT + mk4's but if I were a manufacturer I'd put it as a lower priority than an 86.  Would be a much better seller due to longetivity in BR service and were used in wider areas of the country. 

I always thought Heljans were power hungry, until I stripped a 26 down and fitted the gubbins to a Hornby 86. I didn't fit the bulbs, and the loco pulled not much more than a Bachmann 85. So I'd say on that basis, it's not so much the motors used but rather the stuff bolted to it

[mdvle]

Heljan have made the 86/0 official, and it has already gone to tooling.  Design has be done to allow for other variants in the future if they feel the demand is there.

[classy52]

Heljan have made the 86/0 official, and it has already gone to tooling.  Design has be done to allow for other variants in the future if they feel the demand is there.

 

Hornby still have an opportunity to seize the moment and still do a re-tooled Class 86/2, 86/4 & 86/6 for the modern era, e.g. Freightliner, EWS & Heritage liveries, as Heljan are only doing the as-built 86/0 catering for the early era's between 1965-1980.

Heljan have stated in their thread some weird business logic that they will consider doing a new flexicoil 86/2, 86/4 & 86/6 if the demand for these early prototypes are strong???...how does that make any sense considering I'm not interested in these early prototypes and assume late modern image modelers wouldn't buy these for the sake of it.

To me it sounds like Heljan are not confident in their tooling for the 86 and it is a vibe I got by reading all the comments so far in that thread....so over to you Hornby.

Edited November 22, 2018 by classy52

[mdvle]

Heljan have stated in their thread some weird business logic that they will consider doing a new flexicoil 86/2 & 86/6 if the demand for these early prototypes are strong???...how does that make any sense considering I'm not interested in these early prototypes and assume late modern image modelers wouldn't buy these for the sake of it.

To me it sounds like Heljan are not confident in their tooling for the 86 and it is a vibe I got by reading all the comments so far in that thread....so over to you Hornby.

 

I read the statement (*) differently.

 

My reading is that Heljan are doing the 86/0 and have allowed for other variations.

 

They will work through the 86/4 and 86/6 variants if they feel there is enough demand for the /4 and /6.

 

Finally, they will approach the 86/2 at the end again if they feel the demand is there.

 

The reasoning seems to be the existing Heljan 86/2 is still recent enough that they aren't sure there is enough of a market currently to immediately do an 86/2 (**).

 

 

* - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139654-Heljan-announce-re-tooled-class-86-in-oo/&do=findComment&comment=3373616

 

** - yes, many have issues with the accuracy of the existing Heljan offering and thus refused to buy it.  But many people did buy them and are quite happy with them.  The question, as always, is if there is enough demand to justify tooling up a new version.  Heljan may be correct at the moment, but another couple of years will likely change things.

[classy52]

I read the statement (*) differently.

 

My reading is that Heljan are doing the 86/0 and have allowed for other variations.

 

They will work through the 86/4 and 86/6 variants if they feel there is enough demand for the /4 and /6.

 

Finally, they will approach the 86/2 at the end again if they feel the demand is there.

 

The reasoning seems to be the existing Heljan 86/2 is still recent enough that they aren't sure there is enough of a market currently to immediately do an 86/2 (**).

 

 

* - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139654-Heljan-announce-re-tooled-class-86-in-oo/&do=findComment&comment=3373616

 

** - yes, many have issues with the accuracy of the existing Heljan offering and thus refused to buy it.  But many people did buy them and are quite happy with them.  The question, as always, is if there is enough demand to justify tooling up a new version.  Heljan may be correct at the moment, but another couple of years will likely change things.

 

I read the statement in exactly the same way as you but to me it doesn't make any sense.

To me Heljan are assuming everyone who is interested in a Class 86 no matter what era they're modelling will buy the 86/0 and will gladly fork out more money and buy the later re-tooled variants which is a huge assumption and if the take up isn't good then the 86/2, 86/4 & 86/6 will get shelved and never get off the ground...doesn't that business model sound odd to anyone???

What if there is a bigger market for the 86/2/4/6 and presumably sell by the bucket loads but because the 86/0 sold below expectations we would never see them from Heljan thus which is why I think Hornby should be looking at this closely and like I said perhaps seize the opportunity from under Heljan's noses and Hornby produce a re-tooled Class 86/2/4/6 and probably would make a better product.

 

Edit: Apologies to DaveClass47 for talking about the Class 86 in this Class 91 thread.

Edited November 22, 2018 by classy52