Default stances of negativity

[woodenhead]

I think we need to distinguish between moaning for the sake of it and measured opinion.

 

Kenton, if you were just a moaner no one would have been pining for your return.

[raymw]

But then, on the other hand, you have the various cliques of the fan boys.

[woodenhead]

In life there are always cliques, you just learn to ignore them.

 

I learnt a lot about negativity and it's impact on your well being in the past 12 months and I am referring to myself here and I've altered my outlook.

 

Life is too short to be all that worried about the little things.

[PhilH]

Surely it's the case though that by definition for a forum to be valuable other opinions have to be available? It is simply a fact of life that there are those who cannot express opposite or negative opinion other than by moaning about the subject of the discussion.

 

Also, would it not be fair to say that if one is completely for something then any negativity towards that could be construed as moaning?

 

I like moaning, it keeps me cheerful....

[Xerces Fobe2]

Kenton was just a station on the Overground until RMweb

[Ian J.]

I for one am sad that a number of good modellers have been lost from the forum over the years. Invariably it seems to have been strongly held (and to my mind somewhat overtly and aggressively held) narrow viewpoints that have lead to their going. I find it difficult to see why anyone can get so heated and blinkered about our hobby, but there always seem to be some points of view that just can't sit well with others. Other times there have been heated debates, but sometimes that happens.

 

For my part, rather than looking to demean or belittle for the sake of my own ego, I try to think in terms of how anything I say (whether on a forum or in 'real' life) can be helpful in some way. Sometimes that means saying something that might appear to be negative, but is only ever intended to try and sway the recipients (normally manufacturers). Otherwise I try and be positive. If I can't find something positive to say (or constructively critical, which might be seen as negative) then I prefer to simply say nothing. Life is too short for that kind of corrosive attitude.

[Kenton]

 

Kenton, if you were just a moaner no one would have been pining for your return.

Thanks, But if I was seen as just a moaner I don't think I would have survived this long (OK a few narrow squeaks along the way) But my job in life is to take a contrary position often just to make people stop, think and re-evaluate, it has become my nature, just the way I am. I don't think Andy's comments were aimed directly at me though, I hope it was just a broad gut feeling, perhaps prompted by others (possibly newer members who have not seen the history of RMWeb from this side of the server).

[Stubby47]

Is this the latest MRJ thread ?

[woodenhead]

Kenton

 

I don't think Andy was aiming at you either, but you are a good example of someone with contrary views who will back them up with reason and debate not stifle.

[skipepsi]

No how dare you think such a thing........

[Andy Y]

Nice own goal Andy as in one of your recent posts you described one of the Forum members as something you get if you touched a hedgehogs back somewhat negative I think! I will not use the expletive as it contravenes the Forums/your rules, so please stop being a hypocrite and preaching from the shaky high ground you appear to inhabit.

 

Bye everyone!

 

Here you go, here's the post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93768-kenton-just-when-you-thought-it-was-safe-to-go-back-in-the-water/?p=1721435 as I wouldn't anyone to think your statement had any element of value to it and there's nothing hypocritical about it at all; there are times when I have to deal with some really quite unpleasant people. You may recall you upset several Network rail employees recently (and First employees before that) by giving your opinions.

 

So, is RMWeb now blaming its members for justifiably complaining about the current poor service by some manufacturers? 'Cos if you are..

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't see the same picture from your dot-to-dot puzzle - I'm talking about the negative atmosphere fostered by those who like their negative opinion (rather than facts) to be heard.

 

 I don't think Andy's comments were aimed directly at me though,

 

They're not and there's no agenda driven censorship; just trying to herd cats into a room without them scratching each others eyes out.

[Hesperus]

 And I still have no way of "following" a topic unless I post something

 

There is a 'follow this topic' box on each page if you're using the full website,  if you are using the mobile version and moaning that you're not getting all the features then you frankly deserve to get moaned about.

[KalKat]

I had noticed that a number of threads seemed to degenerate into 'bad temperredness' but felt if I said owt - I might start a riot..... so didn't.

 

True I've not posted much but there often seemed to be others who answered who were more experienced. But I hope what I have offered has been useful. This is how I try and live my life - it's far more rewarding that way (I find anyhow... you may be different [expression of opinion there])

 

I'm very glad that this forum is available, and have learnt a great deal from the posters here.  Many thanks to Andy for enabling me to learn

[Andy Y]

Right. Now I understand why Andy was so keen to get rid of the Disagree and Undecipherable buttons 

 

Nothing to do with it, a completely different issue so please don't make assumptions. This is about trying to make it a more pleasant community environment for the majority without having to listen to the repetitive sound of those personal axes being ground.

 

Yes there are trolls; they get dealt with. There are genuinely malicious people too; they get dealt with. This is trying to sound a wake-up call that there's too much unnecessary, irrelevant or unproductive moaning. It's supposed to be an enjoyable pastime and hopefully the majority come to enjoy shared work rather than incessant sniping.

[Nimbus]

Is this the latest MRJ thread ?

 

...or a new Peter Gabriel album?

 

The Nim

[Theakerr]

Speaking purely for myself as an expat, i would have to say that at times there is a fine line between negativity and information.  For example there have been a lot of comments about one of the latest models from one of the big two manufacturers.  Some might see these comments as negative, but I saw them as very informative and have delayed purchase of that particular model even though it is one i would like.  These posts are "negative" information.  However on the same thread there have been a number of comments bemoaning in a general sense the manufacturer.  They are simply negative.  Generally speakning I can spot those within the first sentence and ignore the rest of the post, but still continue to read the thread.  

However, in a generic way I have to support Andy's comment because based on my readings there seems to be a natural life cycle to many if not all forums with one end sign being the growth of negative and spurious threads.    I would hate to see this forum follow said life cycle as I have learnt much and have made (I hope) a number of internet friends.   

[Andy Y]

Speaking purely for myself as an expat, i would have to say that at times there is a fine line between negativity and information.  For example there have been a lot of comments about one of the latest models from one of the big two manufacturers.  Some might see these comments as negative, but I saw them as very informative and have delayed purchase of that particular model even though it is one i would like.  These posts are "negative" information.  However on the same thread there have been a number of comments bemoaning in a general sense the manufacturer.  They are simply negative.  Generally speakning I can spot those within the first sentence and ignore the rest of the post, but still continue to read the thread.  

 

I think you've explained it very well; nothing wrong with the "negative information" category, it's just the "simply negative" ones that wear people out. It's not just topics about manufacturers, it can be anything from X Factor to opinions about the monarchy.

[fozzy280472]

I'm not sure peoples negativity is really something to be bothered about too much , for example I would say around seventy per cent of my work colleagues moan consistently about matters relating from pay to the price of plywood in b&q , the same goes for friends and family too , I think what I'm trying to put across is that I think its basic human nature to moan regardless !

I do think that maybe people on here can get bent out of shape regarding things that in the bigger picture of life really are of little consequence and I suppose it must get on Andy's nerves to constantly be dealing with these issues on a forum which is supposed to be for pleasure.

One issue I don't agree with is the "get on with some proper modelling / kitbuilding etc " comments , I DO try to do a bit of kitbuilding and detailing and to be honest I am never really happy with the results and in the end they really give me something to moan about !

Mind you to be fair I don't generally moan about rtr models being inaccurate I'm just happy new models we could only dream of 30 years ago are being produced now.

I truly believe this is a great forum , one of the few I frequent , I have learned much and hope to learn more as time passes ,I just think maybe the hobby can be taken a little too seriously and that's when to me the enjoyment ends.

Just my opinions ,

Cheers Paul.

[BG John]

I've spent some time over the last year learning about modern methods of marketing, and how they're all about meeting needs or creating a delight for customers, and building an audience for your product or service by giving away things of real value. It's fascinating stuff, and a complete contrast to the traditional ways of using fear and deception to bully people into buying stuff they never knew they needed. These old ways have found their way into almost every aspect of life, and we're bombarded with messages making us dissatisfied with everything. It's no wonder that people get negative and angry about stuff, as it's so deeply ingrained in our lives.

 

Of course we'd be much happier and healthier, and the world would be a far better place, if we were more positive about things. We'd be able to deal with all the genuinely negative things in our lives better too.

 

I've been learning a bit about Nonviolent Communication, although I haven't got a clue how to actually put it into practice yet! It's really hard after centuries of ingrained negativity! In simple terms though, the idea is to stop being judgemental, and to state the concrete facts of a situation, how it makes you feel, how you would like to feel about it, and what you would like the person/people you are discussing it with to do to meet your needs. Even if it's too difficult to put this into practice, just having it in mind when engaged in a discussion could help to keep a situation calmer, and improve communication. And next time you read something where I'm judgemental, just remember I haven't got my head round it yet, but I'm trying .

[newbryford]

It doesn't matter if it's toy trains model railways, tiddlywinks, fishing, collecting stamps, bus spotting, commuters, insert any hobby or walk of life here, there'll always be those that are never happy with their lot. And the internet has made it more accessible to air the negativity.

 

My wife experiences it through her work with trip advisor. We were looking at a recent review of her workplace and he gave it 9/10. Although 9/10 is a good score, they had made a comment about the bed. But a quick look at other reviews by the same person about other hotels and they were commenting that the "taps didn't line up" on the bathroom sink.

 

The words "serial trip advisor" immediately sprang to mind, quickly followed by "get a life".

 

Don't get me wromg. In the "old days", people would take the time to write a letter if they felt strongly enough about a particular subject and because it took effort, that letter was given due regard. Now we can all be internet warriors and simply type and send without proper thought and regard for those actions. If my wife receives a proper letter now, it is given her full attention. (Having said that, she will reply to every comment on trip advisor also because it's afamily business and they take every comment personally).

 

What's the point in continually dragging the world and everyone around you down?

I've been there, I've got through it, and my outlook on life changed about 25 years agoand it's been good ever since . I now view every extra day that I manage in this life as a bonus.

 

Maybe I'm just lucky?

 

Chin up!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Spannerman]

I tend to agree with what Andy has said and it's for this reason I stop reading some posts eg Bachmann 2015 announcements when they start to resemble a Jeremy Vine show or Daily mail article, I see it as a form of self censorship.

 

There seems to be a growing wish from some to see things fail before they start, see the DJ Models or Oxford Rail forums.

 

I often wonder if this is people trying to control the minutae in life as they have so little control of the other things that affect them daily.

 

Remember opinions are like - everybody has one.

 

Just my thoughts, ignore, reply, delete as applicable

 

Atb

 

Nik

[wombatofludham]

I know I can be gobby, usually in response to people looking down on those who think real modelling involves wearing a hair-shirt and scratchbuilding, but I have to say that apart from around the time new items are announced by the big manufacturers, where disappointment and frustration sometimes spills into acrimony, for the most part this forum isn't too bad.  The "classical music" thread is a case in point, it has been a genuinely interesting and enlightening thread.  I can understand Andy's frustration when threads, such as the Bachmann thread, descend into a negative discussion on the new pricing but I suppose it was inevitable, and it will soon blow over.  If I've contributed to this debate by my postings then I apologise, I still stand by my opinions but perhaps I might have worded them better.  Even so, compared to some forums and the arguments that sometimes arise in them, we're not too bad.

[Trevellan]

But then, on the other hand, you have the various cliques of the fan boys.

 

This is precisely the sort of comment which has the taste of bitterness about it, possibly unintentionally.

 

Cliques are a natural part of life; we are inevitably drawn to like-minded people. This only becomes negative when those within a clique treat outsiders with contempt. I work on the basic principle that I try to treat others as I wish to be treated.

 

I am more than happy to admit I'm a fan of RMweb. Ever since I joined I have found it to be a constant source of information, inspiration and entertainment. Interestingly, through the Taunton event I have met a number of RMwebbers with whom I get on well online and, perhaps unsurprisingly, I get on well with them in person too.

 

Others have mentioned the Bachmann announcements as being unduly negative. Frankly, I stopped reading that thread after so many "nothing in it for me" posts.

 

Another old chestnut worth considering is "if you can't say anything positive, don't say anything at all".

 

And finishing on a positive note, it's time for breakfast!

[Guest]

I actually quite enjoy reading some of the moaning and negativity. It's a wake-up call that reminds me I'm not quite the grumpy b*stard I thought I was. It's refreshing to be reminded that I still have a long way to go to catch up with some folk.

[Barry O]

Andy has a lot of things to sort out caused by some of this negativity.. I have witnessed some of this recently and he worked hard to sort it out

 

Say what you are going to say but think about it first....  instead of taking a negative approach think "key points for improvement" as this is a way of sorting things out pro-actively rather than " if it doesn't improve I will scream and scream until I am sick!"