70's Commuter traffic to Hitchin/Baldock n beyond

[valleymodeller]

The Transport Video Publishing DVD 'Kings Cross Suburban' is well worth a watch for anyone interested in these services.

I can highly recommend this DVD, it is my favourite. Great shots of KX etc.

[Foulounoux]

OK, a bit of digging and we have

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcA2tOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIza2VzdnFqBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANmZjM1NTBkOWYzYjNiMjhiYzI5ZjU5NzMyNzM1OTYxOARncG9zAzI2BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D26&w=500&h=332&imgurl=farm9.staticflickr.com%2F8054%2F8354055171_2e2fd12118_z.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F40263244%40N04%2F8354055171%2F&size=149.1KB&name=Recent+Photos+The+Commons+Getty+Collection+Galleries+World+Map+App+...&p=d5624&oid=ff3550d9f3b3b28bc29f597327359618&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Recent+Photos+The+Commons+Getty+Collection+Galleries+World+Map+App+...&b=0&ni=160&no=26&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11lj0gob4&sigb=145nl119d&sigi=11nq7r3rh&sigt=12674s3jm&sign=12674s3jm&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

 

and

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcAx9OJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIybzR2YnAxBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANkMGQ3OTY1ZTEzNDc1MTZhMTMxN2NlZjY4ODdkMzU1ZQRncG9zAzcEaXQDYmluZw--?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D7&w=500&h=354&imgurl=c1.staticflickr.com%2F9%2F8191%2F8354055787_4286a5e37e_z.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F40263244%40N04%2F8354055787%2Fin%2Fpool-1690412%40N24&size=147.7KB&name=Brush+Type+2+D5624<%2Fb>+21-02-71&p=d5624&oid=d0d7965e1347516a1317cef6887d355e&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Brush+Type+2+D5624<%2Fb>+21-02-71&b=0&ni=160&no=7&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=128sf71qa&sigb=14477g8kd&sigi=11mo04f8c&sigt=112is3fnl&sign=112is3fnl&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

 

Clearly a troublesome engine...

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcA1NOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzMjRzcm1kBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0NTg2NTJiZDM5ODZmMDkyZTc4NWYyN2FjM2QwZWM2MQRncG9zAzIwBGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D20&w=678&h=677&imgurl=www.nrm.org.uk%2Fimg%2Fnrm%2Fworksphotos%2FLiverpool%20Street%2F1995-7233_LIVST_RB_114.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrm.org.uk%2Fourcollection%2Fphoto%3Fgroup%3DLiverpool%20Street%26objid%3D1995-7233_LIVST_RB_114&size=53.0KB&name=Title%3A+Breakdown+crane+lifting+a+diesel+locomotive%2C+1962.&p=d5624&oid=458652bd3986f092e785f27ac3d0ec61&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Title%3A+Breakdown+crane+lifting+a+diesel+locomotive%2C+1962.&b=0&ni=160&no=20&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12v5kj1kd&sigb=145uvj7pk&sigi=12gje1isg&sigt=11pdththc&sign=11pdththc&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

 

I could have sworn it was blue...oh, well...

 

Best,

Marcus

 

Thank you for those

I thought it was blue as well and I thought it ended up further down the slope. But then I was only 7. My father was "involved" so the imagination of youth probably ran wild

 

Colin

[EHertsGER]

 

Thank you for those

I thought it was blue as well and I thought it ended up further down the slope. But then I was only 7. My father was "involved" so the imagination of youth probably ran wild

Colin

I am going out on a limb here, but I have distinct memories of it at the bottom of the embankment - I guess the above photos show it having been righted and placed back on the track. My recollection included the driver having broken his leg, so I guess the 'drop' was quote violent, giving rise the the injury. Again, just a memory of 44 (!) years ago, but it caused quite a stir in my own mind as well as among Hertford North regulars so I may be close...

 

Best,

Marcus

[Gwiwer]

 A crowd of spotters looked on in amusement from platform 8 as one mini skirted commuter made a very undigified leap onto the ballast!!!

 

cheers

 

Nick, www.leightonlogs.org

 

Point of order - wouldn't that have been platform 10 at the time?

 

I recall some trips on the class 105 Cravens units in the years leading up to electrification.  Mostly only inner suburban runs from Moorgate / Kings Cross / Broad Street as far as what was then Wood Green.  I do recall that there were a few appearances by "Standard" suburban sets such as the hybrid shown above towing a CCT but they were very uncommon.

 

The short-frame suburban coaches only ran weekday peak trips other than a very few balancing workings and were often on the longer distance trips though I did manage a few runs between Finsbury Park and Moorgate / vice versa behind class 31s.  Brush 2s we called them at the time.

[roythebus]

There were a couple of suburban stock workings to Cambridge in the last couple of years of them. I know, I worked them!

[Guest 40-something]

Hi

 

I'm trying to work out the formations of the suburban mk1s hauled by 31s in the early 70s with a view to modelling a set at sometime in the future.

 

Could some one give me a pointer please, net searches haven't thrown up much info

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi

 

I'm trying to work out the formations of the suburban mk1s hauled by 31s in the early 70s with a view to modelling a set at sometime in the future.

 

Could some one give me a pointer please, net searches haven't thrown up much info

Hi

 

Join Robert Carol's Yahoo group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock He has complied quite a long document on these sets with the small variations between each coach.

 

As for formations, inner suburban was S/S/BS/S/S/S, outer sets could vary but would be something like SO(L)/SO(L)/CL/BS/CL/SO(L)/SO(L)/SO(L)

 

There were also some Mk1 corridor stock on outer suburban trains TSO/TSO/FK/BSK/TSO/TSO/TSO the TSOs in some trains replaced with SKs.

[roythebus]

One of my first memories of working the outer suburbans in early 1976 was a Brush 2 with 8 on, me driving, the driver telling me to look out for a bridge as a marker for the next stop, one of the short platforms after Hitchin. it was foggy, I didn't see or hear the bridge, nor did my driver. "They don't knock down bridges" he said. a pway hut was the final braking point, we saw that and just about made the platform stop.

 

Next night it wasn't foggy. We looked out for the bridge. There was a line of brick dust across the railway. They HAD knocked the bridge down to put the wires up!

[Guest 40-something]

Hi

 

Join Robert Carol's Yahoo group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock He has complied quite a long document on these sets with the small variations between each coach.

 

As for formations, inner suburban was S/S/BS/S/S/S, outer sets could vary but would be something like SO(L)/SO(L)/CL/BS/CL/SO(L)/SO(L)/SO(L)

 

There were also some Mk1 corridor stock on outer suburban trains TSO/TSO/FK/BSK/TSO/TSO/TSO the TSOs in some trains replaced with SKs.

Many thanks Clive,

 

Duly joined and very helpfull

[EHertsGER]

Hi

I'm trying to work out the formations of the suburban mk1s hauled by 31s in the early 70s with a view to modelling a set at sometime in the future.

Could some one give me a pointer please, net searches haven't thrown up much info

March 2015 edition of Rail Express has a feature on these services as they operated into London on the 'widened lines' section - includes a 'how to' on modelling them, formations etc and cites sources of models, parts etc.

 

Best,

Marcus

[Guest 40-something]

March 2015 edition of Rail Express has a feature on these services as they operated into London on the 'widened lines' section - includes a 'how to' on modelling them, formations etc and cites sources of models, parts etc.

 

Best,

Marcus

Many thanks Marcus, 

 

That is very handy to know, I'm away to find a copy now!!!

 

Thanks again

[EHertsGER]

Back to 5624 and its adventures at Hertford North...(the photo of it with the large crane was not taken in 1971 but in 1962 when it derailed at Roydon, hence my comment about troublesome...)

 

So, at #1 end the headcode is 9H01, but what was at the other end...?

 

And the Oscar for most informed member on this site goes to...

 

Best,

Marcus

[mark54]

There is a photo of 5624 in Kings Cross Lineside 1958-1984 by David Percival. The caption states it ran through the buffer stops and down the embankment in the early hours of 17/02/1971. The author took the photo that evening. It was hauled back to rail level 2 days later. The headcode is "5B.."

[602Squadron]

On 27/03/2015 at 21:58, corneliuslundie said:

While at Stevenage I often worked a couple of hours overtime and caught the CBE. There were regular patrons in the buffet who had started drinking well before the train left KX, but if the staff had seen me on the platform my coffee was waiting for me. I used to remember the names of all three regular staff but now I can only remember that the young lad was called Jamie.

 

Jonathan David

 

This thread has brought back some memories. In September 1977 I started a new job at the Divisional Operating Managers department at Liverpool Street, and commuted every day from Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate. By then, some of the outer suburban loco-hauled turns had been replaced by 6- or 8-car formations of Craven DMUs, which were somewhat past their best, to say the least. I have a vivid memory of tearing through Hadley Wood and New Barnet one morning at some quite ungodly speed in a DMBS which didn't seem to be able to get out of third gear - the engines screaming and a blue haze rising up through the inspection hatches. Very scary. (I took the car number and reported it when I got into work, but I never heard what happened).

 

On the journey home, I got into the habit of catching the 19:30 Cambridge Buffet Express from The Cross, which was by then the only "Buffet" still calling at WGC. The Gresley RBs had long gone, but the usual car to the end was the prototype "Booth Car" E1106, which, as corneliuslundle rightly says, used to fill up with the regular drinkers well before departure time. I think I remember Jamie, but the Chief Steward was a guy named George Gallagher and the whole atmosphere was very, erm, convivial and pub-like. On the last weekday run, Friday 3 February 1978, I went through to Cambridge - 1106 was chock full with the regular crowd and the Daily Mail even sent along a reporter and photographer to cover the event, which they described as "the end for British Rail's last old style Pub on Wheels", a very apt description. On arrival at Cambridge, the party continued in a pub near the station and a presentation was made to George by some of the regulars, exactly what I can't remember. 

 

The 312 the following Monday was a poor thing in comparison.

Edited August 7, 2020 by 602Squadron
Fact correction

[stewartingram]

On 31/03/2015 at 08:33, roythebus said:

One of my first memories of working the outer suburbans in early 1976 was a Brush 2 with 8 on, me driving, the driver telling me to look out for a bridge as a marker for the next stop, one of the short platforms after Hitchin. it was foggy, I didn't see or hear the bridge, nor did my driver. "They don't knock down bridges" he said. a pway hut was the final braking point, we saw that and just about made the platform stop.

 

Next night it wasn't foggy. We looked out for the bridge. There was a line of brick dust across the railway. They HAD knocked the bridge down to put the wires up!

Was that the bridge that fell down just after a freight went through on the (down?) slow?

 

Stewart

[stewartingram]

1 hour ago, 602Squadron said:

 

 had been replaced by 6- or 8-car formations of Craven DMUs,

Funny you should say 8-car?

I lived in Cambridge, went to school at the "County" which backed on to the line just south of Hills Road bridge. So the Cravens were my staple fare, and I had many journeys on them - my favourite units (along with the Wickhams). Now, I was under the impression that they were limited to a 6-car formation, I never saw anything more than that. The drivers controls had the engine start buttons on his left, only going up to 6 as I remember? Or am I wrong,, and that is 6 power cars, ie a 12-car formation? I'd love to know.

 

Stewart

[602Squadron]

18 hours ago, stewartingram said:

II was under the impression that they were limited to a 6-car formation, I never saw anything more than that. The drivers controls had the engine start buttons on his left, only going up to 6 as I remember? Or am I wrong,, and that is 6 power cars, ie a 12-car formation? I'd love to know.

 

Stewart

 

Yes, up to 6 power cars could be coupled in multiple. The engine start buttons / indicator lights were arranged in six groups of three - one for each engine (2 per power car) and the centre light confirming air pressure for the throttle and gear change controls.

 

As I recall, up until 1977 the Cravens units were usually run in 2- or 4-car formations whether on inner or outer suburban diagrams, which is why the longer trains used in the run up to electrification were notable. The extra units had of course been released after full electrification of the inner suburban services in November 1976, which also allowed remodelling between Finsbury Park and Kings Cross to proceed.

[602Squadron]

19 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Was that the bridge that fell down just after a freight went through on the (down?) slow?

 

Stewart

 

That would have been Wrestlers Bridge at Hatfield, which collapsed on 20 February 1966 while the Up Fast was being excavated in preparation for laying continuous welded rail. As you say, Stewart, a train had passed on the Down Slow shortly before, although luckily it was the eastern arch over the Up Slow which actually fell.

 

The accident report is at www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Hatfield1966-2.pdf 

[stewartingram]

3 hours ago, 602Squadron said:

 

Yes, up to 6 power cars could be coupled in multiple. The engine start buttons / indicator lights were arranged in six groups of three - one for each engine (2 per power car) and the centre light confirming air pressure for the throttle and gear change controls.

 

As I recall, up until 1977 the Cravens units were usually run in 2- or 4-car formations whether on inner or outer suburban diagrams, which is why the longer trains used in the run up to electrification were notable. The extra units had of course been released after full electrification of the inner suburban services in November 1976, which also allowed remodelling between Finsbury Park and Kings Cross to proceed.

I saw plenty of 6-car formations at Cambridge, probably mostly on the GN services. This would be starting between when we moved to Cambridge (1959 ish) and me changing schools to the County (1961 ish), and continuing until I left school (1964-65).

[roythebus]

The bridge mentioned in my post was demolished over the previous weekend as part of the clearance for OHLE. There was my mate saying "they don't move bridges".... the late Ron Birch.