South of 1E Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I suppose a good few of us can remember baby deltics and 31's on commuter trafic out of Moorgate,Kings X and Broad Street. I have a few spotting logs but would like to add a bit more detail to these from local knowledge on this forum. Any info on these trains power, stock, headcodes very welcome, i think there was much variety... I'll end with an amusing Kings X memory from 1970. An up commuter service had stopped short in the terminating suburban platforms at KX. This left one vehicle a non corridor largely beyond the platform edge. A crowd of spotters looked on in amusement from platform 8 as one mini skirted commuter made a very undigified leap onto the ballast!!! cheers Nick, www.leightonlogs.org 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 There was an article in one of the mags last year, MR I think it was. IIRC it featured std suburbans with 31s, the stock formations and diagrams up to electrification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Some stock was stabled at Baldock overnight in the up sidings. I'll leave it to you to work out how it ended up in the up sidings.. Edited March 24, 2015 by LNERGE 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 I suppose a good few of us can remember baby deltics and 31's on commuter trafic out of Moorgate,Kings X and Broad Street. I have a few spotting logs but would like to add a bit more detail to these from local knowledge on this forum. Any info on these trains power, stock, headcodes very welcome, i think there was much variety... I'll end with an amusing Kings X memory from 1970. An up commuter service had stopped short in the terminating suburban platforms at KX. This left one vehicle a non corridor largely beyond the platform edge. A crowd of spotters looked on in amusement from platform 8 as one mini skirted commuter made a very undigified leap onto the ballast!!! cheers Nick, www.leightonlogs.org The mainstay of the motive power was the class 30/31. Baby Deltics were used for the Cambridge Buffet Express services aswell as the more mundane suburban non-corridor stock duties, to a lesser extent than their Brush built counterparts. In the early days, the first members of classes 21 and 26 were also used, before being transferred to Scotland. The stock was almost exclusively MK1 suburban coaches by the end of the 1960's, many still in maroon livery. The trains can be modelled using Bachy MK1's except there was usually a MK1 suburban SLO in the rake, which Bachy haven't done, but DC kits have produced a kit for one. Quad and Quint art stock would have also been a feature up until the late 50's/ early 60's. A motley rake of Gresley, Thompson and BR MK1 coaching stock can seen in photo's of the Cambridge Buffet services. Although the Baby Deltic's were based at Finsbury Park, they were often stabled at Hitchin and were worked by Hitchin loco crews.Headcodes were usually 2B6X. 2B65 and 2B66 can be seen in a lot of pictures of these services. Interestingly, the Baby Deltics were officially banned from the widened line services to Moorgate due to excessive smoke in the tunnels. There is a cracking shot by David Percival of D5906 making off from Farringdon on a rake of MK1 suburbans in 1968 in a cloud of smoke, which appeared in his article on the class in Motive Power magazine. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 (edited) There are some of the suburban mark 1s at Royston in 1976 in this collection"Mark 1 coaches" (C#693000) – 46 photographshttp://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c693000.htmlPaulYork Now in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmark1 Edited March 31, 2015 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 31's were also used to Hertford North with one ending up halfway down the embankment in the early 70's when it was performing a run round manoeuvre My late father remembered it as he was a commuter and one morning got in the carriage waited for the loco to pass in the loop only it never did. Then suddenly lots of staff running about and when he looked down the platform he could see the nose of the 31 in the air. But I can find nothing on the web that records the incident, but I can remember pictures in the Mercury Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 And then there's the DMU's. To the local speciality of Cravens class 105 patented tooth loosener, by 1970 other units had appeared on the services. Derby suburban types, BRCW things, and even some of the rare Wickham units, with class 101 showing up when the electrification of the inner sub services had begun. Compatible units ended up mixed, in an attempt to keep the clapped out stuff going until the new electrics brought the service we enjoy today. 31's were also used to Hertford North with one ending up halfway down the embankment in the early 70's when it was performing a run round manoeuvre 17/2/71, no 5624 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 The mainstay of the motive power was the class 30/31. Baby Deltics were used for the Cambridge Buffet Express services aswell as the more mundane suburban non-corridor stock duties, to a lesser extent than their Brush built counterparts. In the early days, the first members of classes 21 and 26 were also used, before being transferred to Scotland. The stock was almost exclusively MK1 suburban coaches by the end of the 1960's, many still in maroon livery. The trains can be modelled using Bachy MK1's except there was usually a MK1 suburban SLO in the rake, which Bachy haven't done, but DC kits have produced a kit for one. Quad and Quint art stock would have also been a feature up until the late 50's/ early 60's. A motley rake of Gresley, Thompson and BR MK1 coaching stock can seen in photo's of the Cambridge Buffet services. Although the Baby Deltic's were based at Finsbury Park, they were often stabled at Hitchin and were worked by Hitchin loco crews.Headcodes were usually 2B6X. 2B65 and 2B66 can be seen in a lot of pictures of these services. Interestingly, the Baby Deltics were officially banned from the widened line services to Moorgate due to excessive smoke in the tunnels. There is a cracking shot by David Percival of D5906 making off from Farringdon on a rake of MK1 suburbans in 1968 in a cloud of smoke, which appeared in his article on the class in Motive Power magazine. 1B66 was the CBE headcode, also seen 2B66 on lesser loco hauled. And don't forget, the CBE was often used for running in turns; I've seen all sorts on this over the years. Gresley pacifics, Deltics, D0280/DP2 (think D0260 too but not sure?) D200s, Brush 4's, 46s, etc. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I could add a myriad of tales about these services as I was a secondman at Kings Cross from 1975 to 1978, and had probably the most enjoyable days of my railway career there. It was very interesting as we had the last of the traditional loco hauled services on the suburban and main lines. Suburbans were mostly loco hauled in the peaks, with a number of DMU services. All loco hauled suburbans were class 31 by then, usually with 6 cars. Cambridge fasts and semi-fasts were usually Mk1 main line stock,again with 31s, but rarely a 47. Suburban stock was booked to work to Cambridge and Peterborough, as well as places in between. Early turns would typically book on at about 0400 to 0600, with crews going pass to Finsbury Park to prepare the locos, then light engine to one of the many outstations where the stock was berthed, typically Hertford North, Welwyn, Hitchin or the local sidings at Finsbury Park and Caledonian Road. Late turns would start at about 1500, with a peak hour journey from FP to Moorgate, a trip to the outer limits, berth the stock, then light engine back to Finsbury Park. The locos would be booked to arrive about an hour before departure to steam heat the stock. This was a problem for me in the early days as I hadn't been trained on the steam heat boilers! Up trains would work to either Kings Cross or Moorgate. The few Broad street services were worked by the Rolls Royce engined DMUs. some of the Cravens units would work through to Moorgate. The Metro Cam units would not normally work the widened lines as they weren't fitted with trip cocks to work on the LT section. On the Cambridge buffet trains, we'd usually try to achieve 100mph on the "up" run, on the long down hill stretch through Wood Green tunnel, where we once had 102 out of a 31 with a buffet set! On the down line in summer, the locos would often overheat approaching Potters Bar. This would only happen with the radiator at the leading end, as the air flow missed the radiator grilles! As soon as power was eased off past Potters Bar, the system would cool down again! My regular driver in 3 link at the time was a Yorkshireman called Ron Birch. His son followed him into the footplate grade. Later when I progressed to 2 link where we usually worked to Leeds, I was with Ron "Brusher" Warren who lived at Hatfield. He used to boast that his runner beans used to grow up N2 boiler tubes that he "rescued" from his days at Hatfield loco! My view at the time was how uneconomic the whole operation was, with over 300 drivers and some 200 secondmen at Kings Cross alone. This of course changed dramatically with electrification. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 When the BR suburbans arrived it was the intention to take the Quad Arts out of service. However, a 5 coach set of BR stock with a brake second at each end, as originally deployed, could carry significantly fewer passengers than a Quad Art. It was therefore decided to replace one of the brakes with a full second. Three extra compartments apparently made all the difference. Around 1963-64 the Western Region decided not to use non-corridor stock any more and a number of surplus WR suburbans ended their days working out of Kings Cross. It is well worth checking out Robert Carroll's BR Coaching Stock Yahoo group for further gen. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 31's were also used to Hertford North with one ending up halfway down the embankment in the early 70's when it was performing a run round manoeuvre My late father remembered it as he was a commuter and one morning got in the carriage waited for the loco to pass in the loop only it never did. Then suddenly lots of staff running about and when he looked down the platform he could see the nose of the 31 in the air. But I can find nothing on the web that records the incident, but I can remember pictures in the Mercury Colin Oh, I remember that too, though I thought it had dropped off the end of the refuge siding alongside the platform as I recall us driving past it sitting at an odd angle having dropped down an embankment that was beyond a buffer stop...I think...but then it was c1971 so it's anyone's guess whether my memory is a bit faded...I am not just willing, but expect to be corrected! It was all great fun to a small boy on the way to school! Anyway, I've been trying to find out which one it was for years...I have a couple of 'numberless' 31s awaiting that revelation! Best, Marcus And then there's the DMU's. To the local speciality of Cravens class 105 patented tooth loosener, by 1970 other units had appeared on the services. Derby suburban types, BRCW things, and even some of the rare Wickham units, with class 101 showing up when the electrification of the inner sub services had begun. Compatible units ended up mixed, in an attempt to keep the clapped out stuff going until the new electrics brought the service we enjoy today. 17/2/71, no 5624 I should have read on...! Thankyou! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 OK, a bit of digging and we have https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcA2tOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIza2VzdnFqBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANmZjM1NTBkOWYzYjNiMjhiYzI5ZjU5NzMyNzM1OTYxOARncG9zAzI2BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D26&w=500&h=332&imgurl=farm9.staticflickr.com%2F8054%2F8354055171_2e2fd12118_z.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F40263244%40N04%2F8354055171%2F&size=149.1KB&name=Recent+Photos+The+Commons+Getty+Collection+Galleries+World+Map+App+...&p=d5624&oid=ff3550d9f3b3b28bc29f597327359618&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Recent+Photos+The+Commons+Getty+Collection+Galleries+World+Map+App+...&b=0&ni=160&no=26&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11lj0gob4&sigb=145nl119d&sigi=11nq7r3rh&sigt=12674s3jm&sign=12674s3jm&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla and https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcAx9OJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIybzR2YnAxBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANkMGQ3OTY1ZTEzNDc1MTZhMTMxN2NlZjY4ODdkMzU1ZQRncG9zAzcEaXQDYmluZw--?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D7&w=500&h=354&imgurl=c1.staticflickr.com%2F9%2F8191%2F8354055787_4286a5e37e_z.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F40263244%40N04%2F8354055787%2Fin%2Fpool-1690412%40N24&size=147.7KB&name=Brush+Type+2+%3Cb%3ED5624%3C%2Fb%3E+21-02-71&p=d5624&oid=d0d7965e1347516a1317cef6887d355e&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Brush+Type+2+%3Cb%3ED5624%3C%2Fb%3E+21-02-71&b=0&ni=160&no=7&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=128sf71qa&sigb=14477g8kd&sigi=11mo04f8c&sigt=112is3fnl&sign=112is3fnl&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla Clearly a troublesome engine... https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pfthBBVTkcA1NOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzMjRzcm1kBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0NTg2NTJiZDM5ODZmMDkyZTc4NWYyN2FjM2QwZWM2MQRncG9zAzIwBGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dd5624%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D20&w=678&h=677&imgurl=www.nrm.org.uk%2Fimg%2Fnrm%2Fworksphotos%2FLiverpool%2520Street%2F1995-7233_LIVST_RB_114.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrm.org.uk%2Fourcollection%2Fphoto%3Fgroup%3DLiverpool%2520Street%26objid%3D1995-7233_LIVST_RB_114&size=53.0KB&name=Title%3A+Breakdown+crane+lifting+a+diesel+locomotive%2C+1962.&p=d5624&oid=458652bd3986f092e785f27ac3d0ec61&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=Title%3A+Breakdown+crane+lifting+a+diesel+locomotive%2C+1962.&b=0&ni=160&no=20&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12v5kj1kd&sigb=145uvj7pk&sigi=12gje1isg&sigt=11pdththc&sign=11pdththc&.crumb=tb9gFKCSeZb&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla I could have sworn it was blue...oh, well... Best, Marcus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The Transport Video Publishing DVD 'Kings Cross Suburban' is well worth a watch for anyone interested in these services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The class 125s were moved to the Kings Cross services after electrification of the Lea Valley line in 1970. They had no toilets, so were generally confined to inner suburban services. For a time there were also 4 class 116 units which although originally WR came from Gosforth where they had previously replaced the Tyneside electrics. The 116s had 1st class, and were used on longer services along with the Cravens 105s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have these notes from September 1976, which was close to the commencement of electric suburban services from Kings Cross so I am not sure how representative they are of earlier years. They are of formations I saw at the station on a couple of trips there. 46087 46147 46213 43357 46102 46240 46129 46220 46161 43138 46214 46094 46127 46232 43123 46130 46131 46211 46098 46166 46233 43159 46162 46203 46156 46144 43182 46212 46241 46155 46122 46168 46112 43157 46165 46237 46141 46244 43152 46215 46114 46129 46009 46021 46099 43046 43012 48001 48012 46140 43145 46108 46119 46159 48006 48021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Have you seen David Percival's book "Kings Cross Suburban"? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Baldock box diagram edited in upthread to replace dud link.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Here are some pictures from September 1977, by which time electric services had commenced. Hopefully they add to the discussion, but I have no details other than locations and dates. Hadley Wood (19th September), a pair of Cravens class 105 two-car units with an up service. Potters Bar (20th September), a down Cambridge service made up of Metro-Cammell class 101 with leading carriage in "blue stripe" livery. Potters Bar (20th September), an up train (Derby 116?) with a CCT attached at the rear. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Well, mostly a 116. The furthest vehicle looks to be a 105! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The Transport Video Publishing DVD 'Kings Cross Suburban' is well worth a watch for anyone interested in these services. An excellent video that is too. One scene of a Cambridge buffet express shows several Mk1's, a Gresley buffet car coupled next to a non-air conditioned Mk2, all hauled by a blue 31. Make a nice model. Bachmann are re-releasing the Blue suburbans, as shown on Hattons website http://www.ehattons.com/18054/Bachmann_Branchline_34_677_Mk1_Suburban_2nd_open_in_BR_blue_weathered/StockDetail.aspx Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Well, mostly a 116. The furthest vehicle looks to be a 105! Chris I was thinking that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2015 I commuted from Cambridge to Stevenage from 1969 to mid 1973 and don't remember any baby Deltics by that time. All the Cambridge turns seem to have been DMUs or 31s. Certainly the morning train 7.42 from Cambridge was always a DMU. I remember mostly extremely dusty 105s though I think that morning one must have been something less unpleasant. Later I commuted to Liverpool Street or Kings Cross, and purgatory was a train at about 8.30 from KX all stations (it seemed) to Cambridge on a 105. While at Stevenage I often worked a couple of hours overtime and caught the CBE. There were regular patrons in the buffet who had started drinking well before the train left KX, but if the staff had seen me on the platform my coffee was waiting for me. I used to remember the names of all three regular staff but now I can only remember that the young lad was called Jamie. As stated, the Cambridge loco hauled sets were normally corridor stock. However, for a period just before the electrification was completed suburban stock was used as I think they went to Moorgate to relieve pressure on KX. Someone else may have chapter and verse. It was a long time ago. Then I moved to Hatfield and had spanking new class 312s and 313s (is that right for the outer suburban sets?) Jonathan David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 There are several interesting articles in March 2015 Rail Express (issue 226). Some very nice photos also. Model layout "Margery Street" based on widened lines, 1970's blue - 7 pages Feature about the last of the "Block Enders" (Suburban coaches) - 4 pages of info & modelling notes incl comp lavatory etch side Bachman conversion 2 page spread of photos of 70's blue 31 hauled suburban trains There is a table of GN sample formations, and the headcodes are explained. (as follows) Services to/from Kings X were xx6x, Moorgate xx7x, Broad St (till 1969) xx9x, Empty stock was xx5x Destinations identified as follows xxx0 New Barnet xxx1 Potters Bar xxx2 Hatfield xxx3 Welwyn Garden City xxx4 Hitchin xxx5 Baldock or Royston xxx6 Cambridge xxx7 Gordon Hill xxx8 Hertford North Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Couple of interesting vids on Youtube - Last GN loco hauled suburban services https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcpb9oZ6f3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvadOyyRM3s&feature=related Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZiTRd8dT6A Brit15 Edited March 29, 2015 by APOLLO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 purgatory was a train at about 8.30 from KX all stations (it seemed) to Cambridge on a 105. Would love to have done that, preferably sitting at the front of the 105. But would agree that an everyday commute must have got weary! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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