Greengiant Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 What? 16mm to the foot (1/19th), fine scale model railway. Who? Three people, narrow gauge enthusiasts, modellers, volunteers, all wanting to do something a little differently to the norm, bringing skills of draughtsmanship, engineering and art to the melting pot and hopefully coming out with something worthwhile at the end, Ken, Simon and Martin that’s the team. Why? All three of us have 16mm live steam locos and enjoy the whole garden railway community. We are all modellers in 7mm scale, both narrow and standard gauge, the benefit of which has enabled us to exhibit our work at many exhibitions, an activity we enjoy. All three of us are regular volunteers on the Bredgar & Wormshill Light Railway, giving us superb access to a whole array of narrow gauge railway items. Our aim is to produce a finescale model railway in 16mm scale, scratch building virtually everything, using which ever production method is suitable, exploring laser/digital cutting, 3D printing, CNC milling, DCC control with sound. The model Will be a true scale representation of Stony Shaw station and approaches on the Bredgar & Wormshill Light Railway, time stamp will be the first Sunday in June. Here will be documented the Warts-n-all process we go through in hopefully achieving our aim. Building of the stock will be under separate threads. The beginning Each Monday evening we meet up and develop our ideas, some of which culminate in some test building to prove or visualise concepts. Between meetings there are projects we work on in readiness for the next meet up. Having a regular commitment should enable the project to keep momentum and progress at a regular rate. A timeline has been created to cover baseboard, track, scenery, signalling, stock and wiring, enabling parallel production to take place and give us targets to achieve. The layout will be approximately 25 feet long plus a traverser fiddle yard, with the minimum number of bolts holding it together to allow quick assembly and take down for exhibition use. To get going a site survey was made with a lot of measuring taking place. Three of us after a day measuring on a chilly January day. Martin 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Planning This is the original concept sketch that started off the whole project. The desire to produce a layout that gets away from the matt black front profile edge that is seen so many times at exhibitions. To find an alternative to the obligatory hanging curtain fixed to the lower edge of baseboards. Perhaps the inclusion of mood lighting to add variety to the presentation of the layout. I see many beautifully modelled layouts let down but ‘after thought’ presentation, a real shame. I strongly believe layouts should be designed as a complete package, to show them off at their best. There are some very imaginatively presented layouts out there, they draw you to them, encouraging you to take a look. To this end, we have designed out the flat baseboard edge, FSIJ is to have a completed landscaped edge, to give the impression of floating in air. The presentation surround to the layout is a complete contrast to the popular black by being white. Main construction materials to be thin ply, foam and PVC. Minimum use of bolts for assembly, minimum wiring connectors. Further sketching refined the design. We also built an initial concept model, photos of which I cannot find at the moment, but it was enough to prove to us it was workable. To help fully prove the design further a 1/8th scale model of the model was constructed using balsa, card and foam. The support formers were cut from card to represent the thin ply, balsa was used to represent inner timber framing, this may eventually be replaced by thin foam in the real model. Initial assembly. Representations of the main baseboards. A board and two supports taking shape. Now with two of the six boards in place. Upper and lower facias making an appearance. To be continued ... Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 This is the very first concept model and it convinced us the project had some potential and worth developing. The figure is a 16mm scale figure, so a scale 16mm scale model of a 16mm model! The original idea was for a 90 degree formation, this has now changed slightly. Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Things have moved on ... Here you can see two out of the four front boards, one of the curved boards and the fiddle yard. We had decided to move away from a 90 degree turn and gone for something nearer 30 degrees which is more in keeping with the approaching curve into Stony Shaw. Not being entirely happy with how the end of the layout was looking, it was back to the drawing pad to rough out an alternative approach to the overall look of the layout. This looked far more complete in terms of feel so a new model was made. Here it is in the early stages of mocking up. This shows how the end board will attach to the fiddle yard. We also tried out some ideas for lighting. We rather like the prospect of illuminating the lower front of the layout and to have the ability to use colour in the lighting if needed. This should also help accentuate the floating in air look. Added some colour and buildings to the scene. The final track layout will not be parallel to the baseboard edge. Once the layout has gone through the curve it will open up a view into the station approach. Next up a control panel. Martin 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Beautiful new take on baseboard design...! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 We are enjoying the design stage as it give us the chance to play with new ideas, and the two models of the model are certainly doing that. For us the days of black or brown material pinned around layouts are gone, this should stand out a bit. I'm currently working on some ideas for the track which I hope to post over the weekend. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 With the design stage of the layout progressing some thoughts have started on the track work. The concept for the track is, Follow the prototype as closely as possible, No visible wire connections High detail level Provide reliable running We had a search around for rail, and found that Tenmille produce a flat bottom rail which is suitable. Working from the full size fixings we produced a selection of base plates from .9 nickel silver plate and half round rod to simulate the elastic rail fixing point. The first two plates didn't quite fit the size as the half round rod is from a well known supplier, and not of the correct size. The completed one in the photo is about right, this used a half round section machined from a 3/32 bar which is to scale size. The elastic fixings need a bit more work to lengthen them slightly, using a simple bending jig which is easily modified. Making these parts gives us the feel for the size of track components, as most of our experiences to date has been in 7mm, and it's surprising how large the components are. The screws will also act as the power feed points. The next stage is to produce some patterns of the plates, bolts and fixings ready for lost wax casting, and start looking at developing the components for the points. Simon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I did think for a second that you might be scratch building all the chairs, but then remembered that you probably have a brass casting company on speed dial... JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's bad enough making three Detroit Lubricators on the Nelson build, the thought had making all the track bits!!! Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 An interesting side-by-side comparison shot, just a few little tweaks to do and we are almost there. Martin 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Great stuff...! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Further development with the project involves the control interface(s), although tablet and smart phone control is a definite, mimic panel was also felt necessary and to be in keeping with the project feel. Initial thoughts were for a floating panel mounted on a fine tube from under the layout, rather like this concept sketch. Potentially milled from aluminium, the track plan engraved on the surface with touch sensitive areas for switching of points and signals. Investigation of the touch sensitive switching areas ruled this out on grounds of cost to develop them. We have sourced some rather nice light touch switches, which have inbuilt illumination. A scrap of sheet steel was used to see how they could mount for the panel. Mulling the initial idea over the following weeks, we decided the panel at the very front interrupted the uncluttered lines of the front of the layout, a revised version is now mounted on the side of the layout but following the curvature angle of the end board framing. The thought now is to construct the panel from white acrylic which will match the rest of the layout supporting structure. The track plan will be engraved/milled into the acrylic with maybe LED/Neon lights illuminating the route of the plan when set. A small design touch is to link the orange of the switch into the layout name facia panel thus... Next up will be the fiddle yard which has developed into a format we had not envisaged at the outset! Martin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Fiddle yard Our initial thought was to have a traverser fiddle yard, be that manual or powered. When we started drawing full size plans it became obvious this would be a bit of a beast in this scale, requiring a far amount of space behind the layout to get the full travel. With this would come the leverage effect due to the weight of stock. Thinking caps on, a fresh cup of tea and we set to work devising an alternative. I present to you the rotisserie fiddle yard MK1 A quarter scale mock up was constructed to get a feel if this could be viable. It seems we can get a six road fiddle yard in less than the baseboard depth and fully contained within the last layout board. We have the potential for pairs of parallel exit roads at each end if required. Here can be seen the powered end, which may be by stepper motor or some other motor currently under investigation. It will fit quite nicely in the fiddle yard cabinet. We are working on various ideas for track locking to ensure trouble free operation, with the intention for the rotary yard to be operated by six buttons, with electrical gizmos deciding which is the best direction to rotate to get the track in position in the shortest time, along with controlling acceleration and deceleration of the rotation. Possibly the use of power location pins, but more likely to be powered side clamps. Thoughts also turned to safety devices to prevent stock rolling if the boards are not entirely level, so a full size mock up was made of the current final solution to prove the concept. We went through many complex solutions, but many cups of tea later things were greatly simplified and this could well be the solution activated by the locating clamps. A counter balance weight pivots a bar up which only has to prevent stock rolling off the edge. This will all be refined to the minimum required to achieve the aim. Although pleased with the concept something was not quite right with the presentation. Further head scratching and tea drinking came up with a refinement, make the fiddle yard board the same as the layout boards rather than the cabinet affair we had at the moment. This photo shows the issue, original design nearest the refined version furthest away. Removing the original cabinet really shows how the new fiddle yard will integrate well with the overall layout design. Martin 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Having finally settled on a track section that’s as close as Bredgar's, the patterns for the plain track base plates are under construction. We're still looking at the various differences with the point work before these patterns are started, but as we are getting close to cutting wood for the baseboards, these will be needed shortly. Simon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Parts are starting to arrive, baseboard alignment dowels are now here. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 While we source some quality plywood in the various sizes we require, I have taken the opportunity to test some of the production methods for board joining/aligning on some offcuts of ply I had kicking around. The boards are to be aligned by location dowel plates, having never been impressed by, or succeeded with, the usual suggested installation methods, thought turned to devising a method that should ensure perfect installation and alignment each time. The basic problem is wood and wood drill bits, they just cannot be aligned perfectly unless you jig up and clamp the timber perfectly. The suggested spade drill bit is not the best either, far better to use a forstner bit. First up I clamped two facing end boards together and drilled right through them in two places with a 25mm forstner bit, using a pillar drill to ensure an upright hole. This leaves a nice clean hole which is a snug sliding fit for the dowel plate. This picture shows just one of the end boards. The problem we now have is although the alignment is spot on, there is nowhere for the dowel plate screws to affix. Solution is to route out a space for a block, roughly 40mm x 40mm to be glued in. To do this I first took an initial light cut from the back. Easier to do it this way rather than take out the whole depth in one go. Then to set the final depth, drop in a dowel plate which has a thin shim underneath, this then gives a reference point to set the cutter depth to, which will eventually leave a hole that will take a dowel plate that will be set slightly below the end board surface. I put a dowel with the male part in because they are such a snug fit you need to grip the spigot to get it back out! Now it is just a case of routing out to the full depth. I dropped the dowel plate back in to check fit, this is when I found out I needed to have a shim under the dowel. Not all lost on this one because it was simple enough to put this one back on the drill and just shave off a little more on the depth, the others were done with a shim. Then 40mm x 40mm blocks of ply were glued in to fill the hole just routed. Not pretty but I quickly chopped these up, left them overnight to dry. Next day it was simply a case of dropping in the female plate, drilling a clearance hole though the middle using the plate as a guide. Then the plate was removed and the hole drilled out by a drill the next size up, this gives clearance for the location spigot as it passes through the plate into the timber. Finally drop in all plates and fix in place with the screws supplied. I am pleased to say the end boards aligned perfectly. Martin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Its been a while since the last post, and quite a lot is happening. I've been working on some more patterns for the track components, side chairs and fishplates which will be off to the casters next week. One of the off shoots with couplings is we are going to fit them onto our garden rail stock, and to make shunting easier we have found the coupling pins need a loop fitted. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 The first batch of plywood arrived, which we ordered as pre cut. One of our team carried out site a survey, plotted all the levels and track route, from this information they made a full size master end board drawing, from this I was able to mark off all the measurements for cutting and machining. First I made a master template to guide where to drill the dowel holes and cut the front main stretcher girder slot. Time was taken to mark at an early stage each end board with a unique number so we do not get them mixed up, this was time well spent it made the cutting work a lot easier and confident the right piece was cut the right way round. I set them out on the bench in order just prior to numbering. For neatness, although this will not been seen once the boards base plates are fixed on, a template was made to guide the router to cut exact size holes. To do this a full scale drawing was made, printed out and used as a template for making the template. First stage of routing was the dowel recesses and the main back board spline slot. A bench saw was then set up to cut the track base support points on all the end boards. In pairs using the bench saw ensured they were parallel with the end board bottom edge. You can see in the picture the dowel backing plates have been stuck in place. While I had made a mess and was covered in saw dust, a start was made on cutting some sleepers for track test building. I used a band saw for this, here doing the first cut. A pile of sleepers awaiting the second cut. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 With the baseboards for FSIJ under construction I’ve made up a small length of track to test the assembly method. The pine sleepers are scale size and glued to a suitable lump of flat board. A small amount of distressing with a wire brush has given the surface some grain effect, the colouring of the sleepers will be completed once the track is fixed. Firstly a centre line is drawn on the board, and next the sleepers are glued to the board. I’ve purposely made the spacing uneven and slightly off centre, this is prototypical when you look closely at the track at Bredgar. Next the rail which is code 215 which matches the prototype is marked for the plate locations from the sleeper centres, for this test section I’m using some brass rail which with have spare as we only have just enough nickel silver rail to complete the layout. The plates are then soldered in place followed by the clips and dummy screws, and then the power feed rods which are tubes that solder to the bottom of the screw and run through to the underside of the baseboard. One of the early considerations was to have no visible wires showing on the layout. A simple jig has been made to drill the four holes to locate the screws that protrude through the plates. Using the centre line on the track base and on the jig the holes are drilled. The rail ends at base board ends are always vulnerable, by using some small countersunk brass screws and drilling a countersunk a hole in the plates the rail can be soldered in place which gives a very strong joint. Before the rails are glued in place some blackening liquid is applied which gives a base for the weathering, and thats a job for the artistic department, Martin. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 I started experimenting tonight with different techniques to distress and weather the sleepers than I had previously used for a lighter weight track test piece done a while back. Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Bit more activity this weekend with machining timber ... ... and making baseboard/support locating toggles. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Using a jig and the template to drill the holes for the baseboard toggles mounting plate bolts. I used spare brass locating dowel plates to accurately locate the plywood template. Then the holes were countersunk, just got to get the bolts now. First stages of assembly of baseboard number one. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Glueing up the front lower beam, you can never have too many clamps! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 A few ribs at the front of board one now installed. Martin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 Bringing this thread up to date, board five of six now has the basic elements assembled. This is the underside of two of the boards showing the channel that runs the entire length at the front of the boards. The well in the furthest board is for access to the underside of where the points will be, when complete a removable panel will be fitted here. This photo shows boards three, four, five and six. We are plotting the curve of the main line so that board six can be constructed. This shows the changing track levels on boards three and four. Here we are mocking up positioning for the facia and thinking about the supports for this. The first prototype facia supports tested. With these in place, LED light panels were trialed as a potential light source, early impressions are very encouraging. Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now