gjhimages Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 How does one stop the card from warping? I have used cornflako pacetto,and grey card purchased as model making card from EB** Print out sheet,stick to card using pritt stick or equivalent Warp city Help please Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Spray mount may work better. Alternatively, instead of printing on paper, print it out on self-adhesive labels (I believe you can get these in A4 sheets). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 HI Gary There is plenty of advice already on RMweb - a little searching will find topics. Generally the advice is to use an odd number of layers - it is best to laminate layers, leave to dry under weights and then apply the finishing printed paper surface. My own preference for glue is slightly watered PVA. Bear in mind that unglazed card takes glue better than glazed card (the side that has printing on it). Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Have you tried mounting card ? That's usually quite thick & doesn't warp. Cornflake packets are to thin I would have thought. Foam board is one of the best things I've used it's solid & won't warp. Hope this helps Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Like so many things to do with card and paper modelling, it comes down to patience, central heating and the lack of experience of wallpaper hanging..... If you doubt me, take a piece of paper about 6" x 3", slather one side of it with a nice fresh moist Pritt-Stick and leave it alone, glue side up. I would be surprised if it didn't begin to curl up. Wait [did I mention patience...?] and it will then start to uncurl as the moisture spreads more evenly through the structure of the paper. When uncurled [de-stressed?] but still sticky, stick it onto the GREY side of a piece of Packeto Cornflako, a quick roll over with a wallpaper seam roller and it should be O.K. To return to my first sentence... 1. Patience-It isn't plastic and Mekpac. It isn't instant 2. Central heating-The average domestic air space is very dry, the same reason that shop-fitters and the like leave [or should leave] fittings and board products to condition for 24 hours in the new location 3. Wallpaper hanging-Teaches you that curly paper goes flat and becomes <S-T-R-E-T-C-H-Y> when damp. The roof panels of the cottages below are in single thickness Packeto-Cornoflako . I do try to use the ready-made crease down the side of the big boxes as my ridge line. Leaving big bits under a few copies of Railway Modeller for 15-20 minutes s suggested above won't hurt either. Best wishes, good luck, Doug PS Packeto-Cornoflako is a lot cheaper than many other suggestions, leaving more SLW tokens [scottish Laughing Water] in ones pocket. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I've given up on breakfast cereal, and my most regular source of material is Packeto-Bonio, which is somewhat thicker. Is this worth using, as I've just used it for rough mockups so far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhimages Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thanks for that Will try again with patience Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I've given up on breakfast cereal, and my most regular source of material is Packeto-Bonio, which is somewhat thicker. Is this worth using, as I've just used it for rough mockups so far? Bisto says " Arf woofle woofle growful woofly, grr woofle wooffy woof" which being interpreted means:- "Super stuff, and the inside is a good mottled pale brown that does for stone window cills and door steps. It's 0.6mm thick whereas the large size Packeto Cornoflako is about 0.5mm, that's the white inside packets...." Doug PS He's allowed to open his own packet, so doesn't necessarily do so from the top... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Fortunately I'm expected to open the boxes as well as buy them, so I can keep them in good condition! I think they'd be pretty unusable if she prepared her own food, as she's several times the size of a box, with teeth to match! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 If these are scalescenes kits you are doing sticking full A4 sheets onto card, if you immidiatley stick a blank or scrap piece of paper to the reverse of the card you will find it will stop the warping, it balances out the wet effect being single sided. You could probably use news paper or junk mail of similar thickness to your prints. I tend to do this on most of my builds now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobach47 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 i use lengths of square balsa glued as braces inside buildings none have warped yet or you can make up braces out of cereal packet card formed into a long square tube also i find evo-stick wood adhesive to be the best for card modelling you may have to pin or clamp for a minute or two but you do get a second chance if you make a mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hello all, I'm in trouble to understand why a modeller should try to save a few "SLW tokens" when choosing the best base for his structures? Most of us easily spend tens (even hundreds) of such tokens for locos etc. This - in my humble opinion - doesn't quite match these gree… savings efforts. I strongly recommend the use of good card, not just the next packetooo available. Mind you: Saclescene's John W. (to name just one of several) expressly requires card of up to 2mm (80thou) thickness – and I'm sure he knows what he is writing about ! :yes: Guess how I know: I've tried several kinds of grey card, packetos, corrugated and foamcore. Mostly not really satisfied… Now I'm back to card, especially "Finnpappe"*). Grey card and foamcore will only be used for mock ups, for bracing and closing the backs. Regards Armin *) Finnpappe: “…no word for it in English dictionary – is a product made of ground wood pulp…” instead of paper fibres (as common grey card is).Lighter than grey card (light beige) and softer but quite stiff. Much easier to cut, doesn’t dull knife edges as quickly as grey card. Cutting arcs is a pleasure – compared to common card. Therefore well suited – and in Germany widely used in professional modelling circles (e.g. architects). PS: for those wanting to give this stuff a try, you can find it there: Architekturbedarf (usual disclaimer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hello all, I'm in trouble to understand why a modeller should try to save a few "SLW tokens" when choosing the best base for his structures? Most of us easily spend tens (even hundreds) of such tokens for locos etc. This - in my humble opinion - doesn't quite match these gree… savings efforts. I strongly recommend the use of good card, not just the next packetooo available. Mind you: Scalescene's John W. (to name just one of several) expressly requires card of up to 2mm (80thou) thickness – and I'm sure he knows what he is writing about ! :yes: Guess how I know: I've tried several kinds of grey card, packetos, corrugated and foamcore. Mostly not really satisfied… Now I'm back to card, especially "Finnpappe"*). Grey card and foamcore will only be used for mock ups, for bracing and closing the backs. Regards Armin Armin, You are of course entitled to your opinion, I use what I find works. Further, John Wiffen's thickness guides are recommendations, not imperatives. It is perfectly feasible to make a satisfactory Scalescenes model if due regard is given to the dimensions of laminated components. It matters not a fishes t*t if a chimney stack is made from 4 layers of 2mm card or 6 layers of 1.3mm card, sufficient lee-way is built into the models. Some modellers are unable to cut 2mm card with any degree of accuracy due to arthritis, or lack access to exactly 2mm and 1mm card. To assure them that they can still produce a successful model I am building this Scalescenes OO TX36 Edwardian School using 1.3mm and 0.6mm card, sourced freely as printers off-cuts. The only things I do not cut corners over are my paper and my inks. I hope to post this build later. It is simple to confuse thickness with rigidity, the late John Ahern worked almost completely in card as thin as postcards, albeit well braced with thin strip-wood and clever design, his models survive decades later. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gastwo Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hello all, I'm in trouble to understand why a modeller should try to save a few "SLW tokens" when choosing the best base for his structures? Most of us easily spend tens (even hundreds) of such tokens for locos etc. This - in my humble opinion - doesn't quite match these gree… savings efforts. In all fairness Armin, not all modellers have lots of "SLW tokens" to spend, so to try and persue their hobby they have to make do with whatever is at hand. You have to admire the ingenuity of some of the constructors that have posted on this forum. Shaun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 My preference for gluing is, weirdly, superglue, the really runny stuff. I also use fairly thin card - the sort that you can print out on, and laminate up to the thickness required. I would recommend doing this with the parts cut to shape, as, if you are going up to 2mm, it will be as hard as MDF by the time you are there. it warps at first, but soon straightens, and warps less, the more layers you use. The resulting structures seem to be very resistant to further warping, and are standing the test of time. Indeed, they are strong enough that I use this technique for building chassis for all my rolling stock now, locos included. However, Pritt does seem excellent, although not so the cheaper versions. My superglue du jour is whatever is cheapest and runniest from the pound shop - seems to work nicely, and I need it by the gallon! As to quality, it varies according to what I am doing - coping stones, lintels and rough finished corner-stones are sometimes from egg boxes, which bends nicely when damp. I have used cereal boxes, card folders, all sorts, finding myself short of cash, and needing to save the folding stuff for things I really cant make, like wheels. Admittedly, my models are a paint finish, too, but I have constructed Scalescenes models (and a few of my own to similar, but way inferior, design). I agree with the comment on using good quality, but feel the comment should be - use the best you can afford - same as with everything. Box card works, but there is better if you can afford it. occasionally, you may find that good quality card is a must - say with windows. some of my glazing bars are less than 1mm wide - cheap card will not cut this thinly- well, not cleanly. What I would not do, based on experience, is mix materials too much, if your room is liable to damp or changes in temperature. from experience, that results in warping that is even worse than that which has occurred to my sense of humour It also is occurring on a finished model, which is likely to cause a sense of humour failure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejgray52 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I use mounting card from the Range, by the time you have layered the walls (scale scene I'm thinking of) it's pretty solid - they did not warp even when the roof leaked on them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjhimages Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Thanks for all the tips I put a couple of 'scrap' strips across the back of a piece of a4 card This seemed to cure the obvious warp will now cut out and put together Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Gentlemen,sorry, but this doesn’t convince me. I didn’t say “lots of ‘SLW tokens’”, but “a few ‘SLW tokens’”. This I take literally! A simple example (I quote prices for 2mm-sheets (in words: two millimeters) @ 70x100 cm (28x40 in)): The stuff I prefer costs € 3.99 + P&P; converted to Sterling at the current (fainting) exchange rate ~ £ 2.80 +P&P. Grey card is € 2.45 + P&P (~ £ 2.00 +P&P). These amounts I still call “a few”. Each of those 70x100 sheets lasts quite some time, I can do a lot (not just a few ) buildings. Btw, I surmise that high grade ink will – per building – cost more than the card I use for the same building… So, what are we battling about? Doug, you are right: John’s thickness guides are not expressed requirements; however, he designs his structures to “approximate” 2mm etc. bases, not for stacks of packeto stuff. Me thinks that beginners will be better off if they adhere to his recommendations. And I suffer from arthritis… Regards Armin ( liking - not admiring - the work of many contributors here, amongst them Doug… ) PS: this my last post to this topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I had a problem with this, too. I'd made a Metcalfe loco shed and put it into the attic wherein the embryo layout is located. After a winter it had warped so badly it was no longer of use. Befuddled by this, well, annoyed, actually, I realised that something needed to be done other than bumping up the strength of the structure, for Metcalfe kits have quite a lot of layers to them giving quite some strength. So. I tried applying shellac to the card and, so far, it's worked. Cliff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Hughes Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It used to be, back when card was the usual building material for everything from sheds to loco bodies, that it was always recommended to seal it with shellac to stop moisture warping the card. I don't suppose the structure of card has changed much over the years so, if that advice was sound fifty years ago.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Some watercolour artists stretch the watercolour paper before painting on it so that it remains flat when the watercolour is applied. Tape the card to a flat surface with masking tape and wet it with a sponge. Then let it dry. You might find that it retains it's flat profile when you then glue on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I had a problem with this, too. I'd made a Metcalfe loco shed and put it into the attic wherein the embryo layout is located. After a winter it had warped so badly it was no longer of use. Befuddled by this, well, annoyed, actually, I realised that something needed to be done other than bumping up the strength of the structure, for Metcalfe kits have quite a lot of layers to them giving quite some strength. So. I tried applying shellac to the card and, so far, it's worked. Cliff Is natural shellac still available? if so what is the brand name? I believe knotting is or was shellac based. I've used the term 'natural shellac' as I suspect nowadays it is synthetic stuff and would it do as good a job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppercorn Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sleeper, I used stuff from a small (and expensive) bottle of shellac that I bought locally some years ago from a hardware shop. I can't find it, but when I go over to the shop this week, I'll check and let you know. It may have been made by Rustins. CliffH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Knotting is indeed a good source of shellac traetment, but be sure to buy the old fashioned stuff, not the modern clear stuff that smells of aeroplane dope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 In the past, I've used shellac flakes and dissolved them in meths. More recently I've used Bartoline patent knotting - smells of meths too, bought from here - http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p28317 - now seems to be a different manufacturer, but most likely the same stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.