Kitbuilt - SECR L class from the DJH kit

[pete_mcfarlane]

My turn to dig a kit from the to-do pile. I bought this about 10-12 years back and it's been waiting to be built ever since.

I'll probably start this in a few weeks. As is often the case with DJH kits the professionally thrown together as quickly as possible built example on the front doesn't look quite right. I suspect it's sitting too high on its chassis, so the first task will be to work out what can be done about this. I also need to find where I put the Gibson driving wheels.......

Edited March 19, 2015 by pete_mcfarlane

[Horsetan]

OMG, they're all coming out of the woodwork!!

[Kenton]

 

As is often the case with DJH kits the professionally thrown together as quickly as possible built example on the front doesn't look quite right.

As it comes out of the box ... and why not the Romfords that should be in the box with it? Interesting to see how you get this to sit down and keep balanced. Edited March 18, 2015 by Kenton

[pete_mcfarlane]

Having looked at the box picture again, I think that as well as the loco being slightly too high, it also doesn't have an ash-pan between the driving wheels. This kind of gives the thing a light and airy look- when the real L class were big and bulky by 4-4-0 standards. An ash-pan should be easy to fabricate. 

 

It does have some Romfords in the box but the old kind with deep flanges. I much prefer Gibsons to these. 

[N15class]

How accurate is this one? I had trouble with the three DJH kits I built. Never touched them again not even in 7mm.

 

Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I've yet to properly check it for accuracy. There's something weird about the tender chassis though.

 

Sometimes I despair of this site with all its whining about RTR prices and badly spelt Hornby bashing. But sometimes it's brilliant, and whilst idly browsing this thread I discovered that the Beyer-Peacock works drawings are online thanks to the ever brilliant MSIM (always worth a visit if you are in Manchester). A couple of minutes searching turned up copies of the L class GA: http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=16236

 

The tender is on there as well: http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=16240&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=35320

 

So i now have copies of the GA drawings and can measure the kit against them 

 

DJH kits seem to generate a mixed set of opinions. These seem to go together well, so some people think they are brilliant, but they seem to date from an era when people accepted more compromises than we do now. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by pete_mcfarlane

[Kenton]

 

DJH kits seem to generate a mixed set of opinions. These seem to go together well, so some people think they are brilliant, but they seem to date from an era when people accepted more compromises than we do now. 

It all stems from what type of modeller you are: Do you build kits that were designed to give an adequate representation of the prototype but may have some compromises (not leat of which the OO gauge limitations on the chassis. Or are you a no compromise modeller that wants every rivet in place and perfection. I am definitely one of the former and simply cannot get worked up about a kit with compromised detail. The DJH kits (most of which are these days considered OLD) are generally build without issues. But do have issues with regard to purism. Perhaps there is some fun to be had in adapting the kit or fabrication of the "missing" parts. Just not for me.

[pete_mcfarlane]

My approach is that I'm building these kits in OO, so there are always going to be compromises, but I do want the result to look like the real thing. So I'm prepared to hack the kit about a bit if needed. 

[N15class]

I do not mind adapting kits. I know in OO there are compromises in the frames. But the cabs, boilers, tenders and major dimensions should be right. Which were not in the ones I built.

 

 

 

Any back on track. Any idea of when you will be starting. Or do you need extras first?

Edited March 19, 2015 by N15class

[Kenton]

 

But the cabs, boilers, tenders and major dimensions should be right. Which were not in the ones I built.

Maybe

But if you do not bother to check them against a GA drawing then ... who's to care ? Ignorance is bliss and all that. Good enough that it goes together and runs ADAIC.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'll probably start in a week or so - I'm finishing off a couple of Roxy LBSC coaches at the moment.

 

I've got the bits I need to start work although I could do with better copies of the drawings off the MSIM website. I'll decide what motor and gearbox to use once the build is underway. If the tender looks to be bad then I may ditch it and buy the SEF one from their E class, which Mr Bradley's book on SECR locos tells me is the same as the one behind the L. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

I had a spot of free time after tea, so I got the kit out and did some checking. 

 

The loco appears to sit somewhere between 0.5 and 0.75mm too high. There are some raised pads on the underside of the running plate, which can be filed off to make it sit at the right height. IIRC the C2X i did was similar. That and the missing ashpan probably account for why the example on the box lid looks too high.

 

The firebox is about 1mm too long and the footplate has been stretched to match. Otherwise the boiler and the rest of the loco looks to be dimensionally accurate. 

 

The tender is 2mm too short. The sideframes have an extra 1mm in height, and the tender sides are also getting on for a mm too high, which is why it looks slightly distorted. It's also a bit crude (axles running in whitemetal bearing anyone?). I'm increasing drawn toward ditching it and getting the SEF tender, as it will save a lot of work replacing the underframe. I'll probably live with the extra mm in length as it won't show. 

[N15class]

Do you have a link for the drawing site. There are a few Beyer and Peacocks I would like to build. Thanks

[Turbo_Tim]

Frustrating that the resolution is so low. 700 pixels isn't much for such detailed drawings.

[Horsetan]

Frustrating that the resolution is so low. 700 pixels isn't much for such detailed drawings.

The whole point is that the Museum wants you to order them, not grab 'em off a screen for free.......

[pete_mcfarlane]

Do you have a link for the drawing site. There are a few Beyer and Peacocks I would like to build. Thanks

This is the link posted in the page on BCDR tanks: http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/collections/online/search.php?type=images

 

I'm confused as to how you get hi-res copies of the drawings so I've dropped them an email. I'll keep you posted. 

[Horsetan]

...I'm confused as to how you get hi-res copies of the drawings so I've dropped them an email. I'll keep you posted.

 

It used to be a lot easier before MOSI redesigned their website. There was an order form that you could download and print off. Paper prints were available in sizes up to A0, or could be supplied on CD-ROM.

[Simon Moore]

This is the first kit I ever made sourced from this very forum. It's runs smooth with the djh gearbox. I still need to line it & finish it off.

 

Simon

[pete_mcfarlane]

I had a response from the MSIM. The Science and Society picture library now handle the requests.

 

The L drawings are on there already. But not everything is (the instructions were to tell the MSIM about anything you want, and they'll get it uploaded on to the SSPL site). 

 

Loco: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10673893&itemw=3&itemf=0008&itemstep=1741&itemx=1760

Tender: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10673897&itemw=3&itemf=0008&itemstep=1741&itemx=1764

 

I've now mailed the SSPL about getting copies. 

 

There are quite a lot of other drawings on there. Mostly export locos, but how about the GA for a Manx 2-4-0T or a County Down 4-4-2?

[Ian J.]

The tender is 2mm too short. The sideframes have an extra 1mm in height, and the tender sides are also getting on for a mm too high, which is why it looks slightly distorted. It's also a bit crude (axles running in whitemetal bearing anyone?). I'm increasing drawn toward ditching it and getting the SEF tender, as it will save a lot of work replacing the underframe. I'll probably live with the extra mm in length as it won't show. 

 

The DJH S&DJR 7F I'm building also has simple 2mm holes for the tender pinpoints to go in. Really not very good at all. I've dug out some top hat bearings and will fit those to give the tender better running (I hope).

[N15class]

I had a response from the MSIM. The Science and Society picture library now handle the requests.

 

The L drawings are on there already. But not everything is (the instructions were to tell the MSIM about anything you want, and they'll get it uploaded on to the SSPL site). 

 

Loco: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10673893&itemw=3&itemf=0008&itemstep=1741&itemx=1760

Tender: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10673897&itemw=3&itemf=0008&itemstep=1741&itemx=1764

 

I've now mailed the SSPL about getting copies. 

 

There are quite a lot of other drawings on there. Mostly export locos, but how about the GA for a Manx 2-4-0T or a County Down 4-4-2?

They have the LSWR 0415 which I may well get ans see how it compares to the Nine Elms one.

[Horsetan]

They have loads of Beyer Peacock stuff, including the drawings for a fair few Great Northern Railway (Ireland) locomotives, including the "S" 4-4-0s

[pete_mcfarlane]

The DJH S&DJR 7F I'm building also has simple 2mm holes for the tender pinpoints to go in. Really not very good at all. I've dug out some top hat bearings and will fit those to give the tender better running (I hope).

I've given in to temptation and have an order in the post to SEF for their E class tender, complete with etched chassis. It looks a lot less dimensionally compromised than the DJH one (which I think comes from the D1/E1 kit, which is one of their very early offerings. And yes, I have one of those in the to do pile as well.....)

[pete_mcfarlane]

I got a copy of the loco GA for the SSPL - at £36 it wasn't cheap, but it's extremely useful. 

 

As far as I can tell. these are the dimensional faults with the loco.

 

• There is an extra 2mm stuck on the rear of the footplate in the form of a thick rear drag beam. This makes the area behind the cab side sheets too long, and looks odd.
• The firebox is 1mm too long, all at the rear.
• This forces the smokebox saddle too far forward. 

All of these are fairly straightforward to rectify with a little work. 

 

It's also worth noting that the kit is only suitable for the locos after they acquired L1 type smokeboxes. It would need a bit of work to replace the door and remove all the rivets from the smokebox to do them as built.

 

I also need to work out an identity for my model. The kit comes with plates for A763 (Manchester built) and 1781 (German) . A763 is the one that got named 'Betty Baldwin' during the 1926 General Strike, but had the original smokebox at that point. 

 

Anyway, next steps are to start cleaning up the whitemetal parts. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Here's today's progress. I've decided to built it as A777, in late 1920s condition with the L1 smokebox (as per the kit) and the original pattern of Chimney. I have a Cownline turned brass chimney of the right type, so the later type of chimney that came with the kit has be squirreled away for use another time. I miss Crownline - some of their stuff was a little ropey but the turned chimney is nice. 

 

The other discovery is that kit seems to be made form a soft variety of whitemetal, and so is a little prone to distortion. i don't recall this problem on the previous DJH kit I built.

 

Anyway, after cleaning up and removing 2mm from the rear of the footplate, I glued the cab in place, This highlighted the problem with the firebox being too long.

The smokebox saddle is too far forwards. After removing nearly 2mm from the rear, buy rubbing it on coarse glasspaper, it now sits in the right place.

There then followed some cursing and filing whilst I got the boiler to sit level and not foul the cab windows. Eventually I ended up with this - the boiler is only resting in place. 

I've now filled all the gaps. Next time (probably Tuesday) I'll sand these, and make start on the chassis. I want to get the basic chassis/body/tender relationships right before before going much further.