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The Engine Shed


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16 minutes ago, micklner said:

I hope the LNER version of Hush Hush does'nt end up Black !! Lead Grey with a touch of Black according to Hornby , I think they need to look at the cover of the Hush Hush Book in the text for the actual colour.

That painting is far too light - The author William Brown has worked with us to get the livery correct and RAL 7016 is considered the correct colour for this phase of the locomotive's livery.

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It’s the engine shed image that looks very black though Paul.

This shows the difference 

https://www.ralcolorchart.com/ral-classic/ral-7016-anthracite-grey

 

FC0432AF-48B0-47E3-8131-39033CDFE948.png.bc9f4194068c582c23365e18dee264a1.png

 

But if you look at photos there’s a clear difference between swatches and daylight photos, where it really lightens it, so I’ll be very interested to see what a paint sample looks like ;)

Currently I have the grey one ordered but if it’s too dark for my perception I’ll probably change to the proposed green instead. 
 

Online Ral, black & the Engine shed 

4F4379EA-EB2D-4860-8413-01EDDDA407A0.jpeg.f50dee24b6009ef282b429a86f09bbd1.jpeg

Edited by PaulRhB
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Unfortunately, that’s how dark it comes up within Adobe Illustrator Paul, but I can assure you that we have specified RAL 7016 within the artwork. The decoration sample will be what we judge the colour on, not how Illustrator renders it.

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Well if it comes out like the RAL I’ll be very happy as that swatch in daylight looks about right compared to best models I’ve seen. 
Certainly not the photographic grey some have done it in but the dark grey does look very classy. 

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1 hour ago, Islesy said:

Unfortunately, that’s how dark it comes up within Adobe Illustrator Paul, but I can assure you that we have specified RAL 7016 within the artwork. The decoration sample will be what we judge the colour on, not how Illustrator renders it.

 

Hey @Islesy

The best option for Hornby is to share images of a painted pre-production W1. this should give Hornby a better chance to let people review the model before it goes into production. And yes I know you'll have the best possible man to check the colour for you.

I recall you'll did this for the LMS Princess Coronation Class "Sir William Stanier FRS" where one studio pic looked to dark and in the following edition of TES you'll showed it off outside under natural light and it silenced the naysayers.

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1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Picking up stuff now isn’t naysaying it’s just raising a question which Paul has clarified for us quickly is purely down to other software. 
;)

 


I do apologise. I didn't mean it in that sense. I was referring to the Sir William Stanier FRS situation where people wouldn't stop saying it was the wrong colour. And in the end Hornby actually got that shade of maroon spot on.

Sometimes a few people will ask nicely (like yourself). But sometimes people tend to get carried away and make a big deal out it. Have you seen the multiple threads on the Hornby 4-pin decoder? It's gotten way out of hand and no one has stepped in to stop it yet.
 

Edited by MGR Hooper!
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19 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

This edition as has been posted above restores The Engine Shed to its former glory. Couldn’t wish for better .Looking forward to 60700 which I saw several times at KX in the 1950’s 

Saw it?  I had a run behind it and cabbed it after arrival at the Cross.  My dad cabbed it in its original form when he was a young chap. 

 

Contemporaneous postcard etc views show the colour as quite dark when it was in traffic in its later water tube boiler state so it lpooks like Hornby have got the colour right.

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On 24/04/2020 at 13:29, Islesy said:

Unfortunately, that’s how dark it comes up within Adobe Illustrator Paul, but I can assure you that we have specified RAL 7016 within the artwork. The decoration sample will be what we judge the colour on, not how Illustrator renders it.

That is not far off how dark RAL 7016 actually is looking at my colour chart . This is a chart supplied by a well known industrial paint supplier from when I had to match colours as part of my job.  If the model comes out that colour it will be darker than many in service locomotives that were actually painted black. I do not like the habit of using words to define colours but in this case anthracite is a clue. The actual substance is well towards the black end of the range as far as types of coal are concerned. Unfortunately I an't comment on what colour it should be as it was way before my time.

Bernard

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22 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

...Looking forward to 60700 which I saw several times at KX in the 1950’s 

You won't be the only one. There's a neat segue in the exotica running on the Southern half of the ECML too, 60700's departure was followed by the appearance of the Deltic Demonstator (DP1) in its so funky paint job. (That was my perception at the time, but I was just a kid...)

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On 24/04/2020 at 15:02, MGR Hooper! said:

 

Hey @Islesy

The best option for Hornby is to share images of a painted pre-production W1. this should give Hornby a better chance to let people review the model before it goes into production. And yes I know you'll have the best possible man to check the colour for you.

I recall you'll did this for the LMS Princess Coronation Class "Sir William Stanier FRS" where one studio pic looked to dark and in the following edition of TES you'll showed it off outside under natural light and it silenced the naysayers.

As you mention Sir William, I thought this photo might be of interest. Sir William is to the right and Bachmann’s Patriot to the left. The Patriot has been renumbered and renamed but is otherwise untouched. I think it is striking how close the livery shades are, especially as one is LMS red and the other London Midland red and the two come from different manufacturers.

 

Patriot & Ivatt Duchess.jpg

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12 hours ago, No Decorum said:

As you mention Sir William, I thought this photo might be of interest. Sir William is to the right and Bachmann’s Patriot to the left. The Patriot has been renumbered and renamed but is otherwise untouched. I think it is striking how close the livery shades are, especially as one is LMS red and the other London Midland red and the two come from different manufacturers.

 

Patriot & Ivatt Duchess.jpg

 

I thing Larry Goddard may have had a role in the Hornby engine colour.

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On 24/04/2020 at 13:05, Islesy said:

That painting is far too light - The author William Brown has worked with us to get the livery correct and RAL 7016 is considered the correct colour for this phase of the locomotive's livery.

Thanks for the reply .

 

Mr Brown is also mentioned on the link below re the W1 , this is another variation of shade of "W1 Grey" its is not Black as it appears in the Engine Shed pictures. Time will tell on what is actually produced.

 

If it is even close to the Loveless version it will be superb.

 

1301011386_aLNERW1.jpg.8116662db4da4a9e7aedd81a98f1b4f4.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.loveless.co.uk/hushhush/index.html

 

 

Edited by micklner
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52 minutes ago, micklner said:

If it is even close to the Loveless version it will be superb.

 

That was the colour that I was initially expecting. But that link is two years old, and perhaps WB has done more research since.

 

I've rather warmed to WB/Hornby's choice of RAL7016. I think it will look really classy.

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23 hours ago, No Decorum said:

As you mention Sir William, I thought this photo might be of interest. Sir William is to the right and Bachmann’s Patriot to the left. The Patriot has been renumbered and renamed but is otherwise untouched. I think it is striking how close the livery shades are, especially as one is LMS red and the other London Midland red and the two come from different manufacturers.

 

Patriot & Ivatt Duchess.jpg

The Hornby rendition edges it for me, has that blood red depth whereas Bachmanns is a a tinge to the cherry side. I have 46256 next to Bachmanns  MR 1000 and its the same. Both superb though - no complaints.

 

Of course we have the advantage that there are many alive who have seen a maroon LMS or BR loco in real life. There can't be many who have seen 10000 in its original condition commenting on this thread surely?!

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27 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Of course we have the advantage that there are many alive who have seen a maroon LMS or BR loco in real life. There can't be many who have seen 10000 in its original condition commenting on this thread surely?!

We all see colour differently and we all remember things differently.

 

Just being able to say you've seen a maroon Duchess doesn't mean your recall of the livery will be correct - even pictures can be difficult to use as the basis.

 

Hornby and Bachmann have to go by what looks right on any model, odd as it seems colour doesn't scale well and even if you use the correct shade of paint as used on the prototype once it is scaled down to model size it can look completely different.  Modern image models are the most obvious examples of this where there is a working prototype to compare with.

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37 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

We all see colour differently and we all remember things differently.

 

Just being able to say you've seen a maroon Duchess doesn't mean your recall of the livery will be correct - even pictures can be difficult to use as the basis.

 

Hornby and Bachmann have to go by what looks right on any model, odd as it seems colour doesn't scale well and even if you use the correct shade of paint as used on the prototype once it is scaled down to model size it can look completely different.  Modern image models are the most obvious examples of this where there is a working prototype to compare with.

Is anything more bizzare than Bachmann and Hornby s interpretation of the Pullman livery.

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I used to follow his threads on here with great interest.  My impression (just as a reader, not a customer of his) was that though a professional designer, builder and painter of coaches for many years, he had come quite late to building a layout of his own.  The quality and the sheer speed of his output were extremely high, and could be inspirational at times; and he wasn't afraid to rip-up his work and start again when he thought of a better idea. 

 

However, he also unfortunately gave the aura of actually enjoying being a bit of an 'old curmudgeon' at times, and of not suffering what he saw as fools gladly.  I'm not sure exactly what happened, he just seemed to disappear from this site, but he may simply have ruffled the wrong feathers once too often.

Edited by Willie Whizz
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