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26 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Bumper edition of TES coinciding with the announcement of the Hornby L&MR 3rd Class open coach

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/expanding-stephensons-rocket

It'll be interesting to see if they pursue the L&M theme any further.

 

Obvious candidates might be a carriage truck with carriage or a coach with a coupe compartment.

 

Perhaps a bit early to think about more locos, but given Hornby's previous "Titfield Thunderbolt" train pack including the 14xx, "Lion" would appeal two ways.  

 

John

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Rails can't do anything right when it comes to Hornby can they, first the Terrier, now the LMR 3rd class coach.

 

I've just suggested to Rails they propose to do the Mk4 coaches now.

 

I doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.

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Posted (edited)

Is there more to come, on the colour layout the part number is quoted as R40019 but the model is R40141.

I do not believe that Hornby have different part/catalogue numbers for colour layouts, the colour layout would be unlikely to appear in the catalogue!

 

So what Is R40019?

Edited by Bob83a
Correct typo
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9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

I doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.
 

 

Didn't know Hornby had a crystal ball....

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13 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.

 

How can it be when the Hornby models is fully tooled and ready to go? and has been since they tooled the other coaches for the L&M Pack.

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This quote from the engine shed agrees with the debate on accuracy:

being scaled to look ‘right’ behind Lion and all of the coaches shared a common underframe for ease of production. As such, their design probably reveals more about how early 19th century rail travel was perceived by the railway industry and press in the 1930s, rather than how it actually was;

The included drawing signed by Stephenson suggests the wheelbase may be longer on the replica, which would hunt less, and the springing more modern but overall the construction looks similar with the same frame design. 
 

27 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more

Have you looked at the Engine Shed where they show the test shots? ;) There’s no way they got design to test shot in the time since Rails announcement.

This is more akin to the Blue Pullman when Bachmann were forced into an early reveal because otherwise people would cry foul if they left it a secret longer!

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37 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Rails can't do anything right when it comes to Hornby can they, first the Terrier, now the LMR 3rd class coach.

 

I've just suggested to Rails they propose to do the Mk4 coaches now.

 

I doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.

Would seem more likely that Rails were having a shot at Hornby to be honest - and look at the difference in proposed price.  Given the relationship between Rails and the NRM it is possible they knew  Hornby were making the 3rd and wanted to get in before them.

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28 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Have you looked at the Engine Shed where they show the test shots? ;) There’s no way they got design to test shot in the time since Rails announcement.

This is more akin to the Blue Pullman when Bachmann were forced into an early reveal because otherwise people would cry foul if they left it a secret longer!

which one was that in ??

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18 minutes ago, mozzer models said:

which one was that in ??

One linked at the top of the page Brian, MGR H has reposted it but as it was on this page I didn’t ;) 

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3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.

 

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Would seem more likely that Rails were having a shot at Hornby to be honest - and look at the difference in proposed price.  Given the relationship between Rails and the NRM it is possible they knew  Hornby were making the 3rd and wanted to get in before them.

Given the lead-in time for tooling, and the expense in CAD design even prior to tooling, my money is on this just being a huge coincidence. That both were in various stages of design prior ro any announcement.

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37 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

Given the lead-in time for tooling, and the expense in CAD design even prior to tooling, my money is on this just being a huge coincidence. That both were in various stages of design prior ro any announcement.

I don't doubt they measured it in July 2018 - it makes absolute sense to measure everything in sight when you get the opportunity - then you can work on it at your leisure (the CAD) and spring a rabbit out of the hat when the opportunity arises.

 

But it's another of those 'We've already been planning it' jobs - wait for someone to show there is demand for a new model - The Terrier, the 91 and now this.  It's like Hornby wait to see what the public reaction to the model is and then quietly turn on their product which they had in CAD before announcing it to the world - all after the other company has expended a lot of time and effort and basically doing Hornby's market research for them.  Using Cavalex - Hornby announced the 91 but not the coaches leaving Cavalex in a quandry and the coaches in limbo - I have no doubt unless Cavalex turned out ready to roll prototypes then Hornby will simply announce the coaches if Cavalex did any more visible development of the 4mm coaches otherwise they will do them when they feel like it.

 

I know at the end of the day it is business and there is nothing underhand about how Hornby maintain their models and market, maybe in the past they have been too lax about things, certainly not any more.

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but Hornby haven't shown something that they had sitting in CAD waiting for someone else to announce. They have waited until they had an engineering sample to show. Please explain how they made this happen in less than a week? or accept that this is not a new project that they only decided on last Thursday

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6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But it's another of those 'We've already been planning it' jobs - wait for someone to show there is demand for a new model - The Terrier, the 91 and now this.  It's like Hornby wait to see what the public reaction to the model is and then quietly turn on their product which they had in CAD before announcing it to the world

Sorry, but in this case I just don't buy that. RoS announced their carriage less than a week ago, and now H have samples. So you're saying they went from nowt to sample in less than a week?

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4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I doubt very much this is Hornby building an expanding range of early railways, the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model albeit updated, the LMR open looks like another shot at Rails and nothing more.

 

The new Rocket is a very different beast to the Triang model. You can't call something re-tooled from the ground up a "re-run" even if you half-heartedly tag on "updated".

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1 minute ago, truffy said:

Sorry, but in this case I just don't buy that. RoS announced their carriage less than a week ago, and now H have samples. So you're saying they went from nowt to sample in less than a week?

Or maybe the reverse of what has been suggested and Hornby got wind of what Rails were planning when Rails got the measurements of the coach and brought their model into production whilst Rails were doing their CAD work.

 

I don't think Hornby went from a CAD to a model in a week, though if the chassis is the same as the other coaches then it is only the top that needed a mould producing.

 

If it is ok to suggest Rails were doing a spoiler on Hornby then it is fine for me to suggest that it could be done in reverse.

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2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The new Rocket is a very different beast to the Triang model. You can't call something re-tooled from the ground up a "re-run" even if you half-heartedly tag on "updated".

I never called it a re-run and I know it is a completely new model.

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Just now, woodenhead said:

I never called it a re-run and I know it is a completely new model.

 

You said - "the Rocket was an anniversary special re-running the Triang model" (my bold)

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Hornby got wind of what Rails were planning

 

Elvis arrived in his UFO, measured it from a grassy knoll after filming the moon landings ;) 


Like I said in the coach thread they could have kept quiet but like Bachmann’s BP probably decided the conspiracists would hammer them even more if they waited! 

Edited by PaulRhB
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I must award black marks to Hornby and Rails.  I ordered a blue coach from Rails as soon as they sent me an email announcing it.  This morning I received an email from Rails telling me they had cancelled theirs because of the Hornby announcement and inviting me to pre-order the Hornby one.  I did this immediately but it appears they had sold their pre-order quantity in the few minutes available to me.  So now I can buy neither and that's what comes of Rails and Hornby playing silly games.

 

Time to grow up, chaps . . . 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Stanley Melrose said:

I must award black marks to Hornby and Rails.  I ordered a blue coach from Rails as soon as they sent me an email announcing it.  This morning I received an email from Rails telling me they had cancelled theirs because of the Hornby announcement and inviting me to pre-order the Hornby one.  I did this immediately but it appears they had sold their pre-order quantity in the few minutes available to me.  So now I can buy neither and that's what comes of Rails and Hornby playing silly games.

 

Time to grow up, chaps . . . 

 

Hunt around other shops. I found one at Kernow. Rails would have had just a small allocation of Hornby's projected production run which would be doubtless much smaller than orders for the their in house version.

Edited by JSpencer
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