The Engine Shed

[reevesthecat]

I would like to think there will still be a Christmas time announcement to pull all the separate announcements together with maybe a headline item (such as class 87 and new mk3's) with reliveries also announced then. I agree there are no modern announcements yet so hopefully saving the best till last.

Mark

[Ian Hargrave]

Surely its just a matter of timing. The mags will pick up the information from the Internet and publish as soon as they can in their news section, as we have seen with Collett coaches etc, so those without internet access are only disadvantaged by a few weeks. So I think the policy is really pretty inclusive.  And I would suggest that if its so important to have up to date information, in all facets of life, they would probably have recognised the benefit of having the internet by now. Its not like you have to get it piped in, you can pick it up very easily on a monthly pay as you go phone.  Even amongst seniors I would have thought people who aren't internet connected are very much in the minority now.

 

What was the alternative. Announce to press and wait for the mags to publish in 2/3/4 weeks , with an embargo inbetween (which was broken several times by one mag that seemed to go to the publisher early). Then subscription readers got information ahead of the mag appearing in shops , how was that fair exactly? Then of course you couldn't comment on it on a forum because it may have been embargoed and run risk of moderation.  Really the internet with direct communications between manufacturer and their customer has swept all that away. I get if you are a mag proprietor you may be a little bit peeved at no longer having news that could boost your circulation but really for the rest of us this is a tremendous improvement. And I think mags are savvy enough to realign their offer accordingly

 

Initially I was very cynical about Hornby's new direct approach, and I still do not like the fact that they are cutting out model shops by selling direct. But I thoroughly enjoy Simons blog and The Engine Shed and I think both have been a great success in enguaging directly between Hornby and their customers. So if no Christmas announcement because they've pre announced next years range I'll not complain.

 

What I think you will see is maybe an announcement concerning re liveries or perhaps even one new model around Christmas time , coinciding with release of new catalogue. There's been no modern image items announced (Sorry don't view the 71 as Modern) so maybe there is something still to come there. There have been tantalising glimpses of what appears to be a mk3 in some Engine Shed videos, so you never know.

 That is to misunderstand what I mean. It costs nothing in terms of hard cash to brief the press concurrently with the weekly blogs on The Engine Shed. Where in my brief post did I mention either "embargoes" or the provision of freebies to review. ? I think we have moved on from there many months ago as Dibber 25 informs us.There is still knowledge and expertise in the model rail press which,handled properly,any manufacturer can tap into which might be of benefit in terms of goodwill and just maybe subsequent sales. It is perhaps appropriate at this juncture to remind ourselves that we have the freedom to post on this site courtesy of Andy Y and the model rail press.There is an "alternative" which can embrace all ...including those who still write for or buy the magazines.There are even some who suurf the net and read magazines. It's a bit like the debate between those who use Kindle and those who prefer the "solid" version of a book.The Engine Shed is a giant leap forward.No one can deny that.Isn't there room for all ? That is all I am saying.

[Legend]

Yes I see what your saying Ian. The only point I'd make is surely The Engine Shed Blog is the same as the brief to the press. What else would be in a press pack that's not for general consumption? It just so happens that the internet connected get to see it at the same time as the press and the information is out there in the market immediately.

 

I think in any case it is clear that Hornby has decided to go direct and cut out the press for whatever reason. On the other hand Bachmann seem to be taking advantage of the void and using the forums as an extension of their PR . I'd evidence that by various statements on here direct from Bachmann eg the price of Thompson coaches, lack of product , delays on the Stanier mogul etc

[The Stationmaster]

 That is to misunderstand what I mean. It costs nothing in terms of hard cash to brief the press concurrently with the weekly blogs on The Engine Shed. Where in my brief post did I mention either "embargoes" or the provision of freebies to review. ? I think we have moved on from there many months ago as Dibber 25 informs us.There is still knowledge and expertise in the model rail press which,handled properly,any manufacturer can tap into which might be of benefit in terms of goodwill and just maybe subsequent sales. It is perhaps appropriate at this juncture to remind ourselves that we have the freedom to post on this site courtesy of Andy Y and the model rail press.There is an "alternative" which can embrace all ...including those who still write for or buy the magazines.There are even some who suurf the net and read magazines. It's a bit like the debate between those who use Kindle and those who prefer the "solid" version of a book.The Engine Shed is a giant leap forward.No one can deny that.Isn't there room for all ? That is all I am saying.

I suspect the problem (if that is the right word?) is that Hornby's bean counters do see it as costing hard cash to brief the press in the traditional fashion.  To them it means the cost of having someone to do it and moreover someone who has the knowledge and ability to field the inevitable questions back from 'the press'.  Effectively they have avoided that cost by introducing what many folk were clamouring for which is updating of information via The engine Shed and they have saved money by doing away with the annual presentation to the press.

 

Hornby seems to be excessively internet orientated in its sales and information roles but that is presumably a decision they have made when developing their new structure.  And it is undeniable that The Engine Shed seems to work rather well and it is even cute enough to upstage announcements (and even imagined forthcoming announcements) by others.  Overall the level of contact is not bad when looked at in isolation but it clearly does not compare with traditional avenues and that eventually might not be to Hornby's advantage - but only time will tell.

 

As far as the loss of the annual presentation is concerned again that might, or might not, work in Hornby's favour.  Bachmann clearly believe that such an approach is worthwhile but don't forget that it has become a situation where that presentation does not cover all of their product releases in any one year as they take advantage of other events and occasions to promote their business.  I don't think that drip feeding information over time, even done in the clever fashion adopted by The Engine Shed, will work quite as well as developing relationships with the trade and press in the way Bachmann do it but it undeniably makes and sustains direct interest on the part of end customers.

 

Maybe Hornby are looking beyond that even - only time will tell - but ultimately unless they look after the media and retail trade I think that directly dealing with the end customer might not be the ideal route for a model railway manufacturer of their stature in the hobby.

[Andy Y]

There hasn't been a December press event at Hornby for the last two or three years. No reason to suspect this year will be any different. Hornby no longer has any regular dealings with the model press.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

We did go down for that 'read-a-long-a-powerpoint' session last year; I don't think I'd make a 9-hour round trip for one of those sessions again!

 

Where in my brief post did I mention ... "embargoes"

 

You didn't; it's one of Legend's hobbyhorses.

 

Really the internet with direct communications between manufacturer and their customer has swept all that away. I get if you are a mag proprietor you may be a little bit peeved at no longer having news that could boost your circulation 

 

It isn't about news; as has been discussed it can be picked up from whatever source; it was more the manner of the way it was carried out - surely any good supplier wants to make use of the maximum number of channels of communication, if they value the readers of such media.

[Andy Y]

Yes I see what your saying Ian. The only point I'd make is surely The Engine Shed Blog is the same as the brief to the press. What else would be in a press pack that's not for general consumption? It just so happens that the internet connected get to see it at the same time as the press and the information is out there in the market immediately.

 

 

Engagement with 'the press' allows an opportunity for further information to be sought from the horse's mouth and communicated, if you're reliant on a diet of the blogs and relatively one-way Facebook posts you'll just get what you're served up.

[Ozexpatriate]

 That is to misunderstand what I mean. It costs nothing in terms of hard cash to brief the press concurrently with the weekly blogs on The Engine Shed. 

Ian, I might be misinterpreting you, but there is a real cost in hard cash to brief the press. Time is money. Press briefing presentations have to be prepared and time is spent doing the briefing itself. We can all scoff at the ubiquity of lousy PowerPoint presentations, but good ones take a substantial amount of time to prepare. This takes away from what the individuals involved would otherwise be doing.

 

If you were suggesting a biweekly meeting with the press, I'm not even sure the journalists would have that much time to spend with one supplier.

 

Nonetheless, for exactly the reason Andy brings up (the trade press can add context and, based on follow-up questions, additional useful information) having some on-going communication between Hornby marketing and the trade press is good for everyone.  The question is one of frequency.

[Ian Hargrave]

Ian, I might be misinterpreting you, but there is a real cost in hard cash to brief the press. Time is money. Press briefing presentations have to be prepared and time is spent doing the briefing itself. We can all scoff at the ubiquity of lousy PowerPoint presentations, but good ones take a substantial amount of time to prepare. This takes away from what the individuals involved would otherwise be doing.

 

If you were suggesting a biweekly meeting with the press, I'm not even sure the journalists would have that much time to spend with one supplier.

 

Nonetheless, for exactly the reason Andy brings up (the trade press can add context and, based on follow-up questions, additional useful information) having some on-going communication between Hornby marketing and the trade press is good for everyone.  The question is one of frequency.

 I think it's time to put this one to bed. In no way am I suggesting press conferences or anything remotely similar.Where do I propose that ? Sorry but this is yet another leap to conclusion. The odd e-mail,telephone conversation,even chat at exhibitions ( yes,Hornby now  attend them ),just some channel of communication would promote goodwill. Isn't there a "cost benefit" in that ? I find it very odd that Hornby seemingly have walked away from the press and I personally am uncomfortable with it and it has for me distasteful echoes of other times and other places. Make of that what you will.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Ian Hargrave

[Rusty.J]

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/a-ex-lswr-coaches-update-and-the-b17-and-class-91-arrive/

[Nile]

I spotted a new product in the video, moving cows!

[JSpencer]

For a moment, I thought they were going to do an all new class 91!

[Ozexpatriate]

The production of R3003 BR 4-6-0 'Barnsley' B17 Class - Late BR and R3004 BR 4-6-0 'Serlby Hall' B17 Class - Early BR Weathered was severely affected by the well-documented production delays Hornby experienced a few years ago, but we have found an alternative factory and work has progressed smoothly since and we are now approaching the release date.

Rather than the black hole of the old days, I have to say that this is exactly the kind of communication that can only build up the confidence of enthusiasts that Hornby, despite obstacles, is working to correct things and is a fulfillment of one of the promises made by the new executive team. Edited October 16, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[dibber25]

Since we're on this subject yet again, can you tell us, Andy, if you get direct communications from Hornby these days? Or do you pick stuff up from their blogs, website etc. As far as I can see, despite the initial promises, there is now NO direct contact whatever between Hornby and the model press, either paper or ether? I can't really see why it is expensive to send an e-mail saying, 'the S15s are in the shops now, so you can go out and buy one to review." Instead of which, the press, which has supported Hornby and the hobby in general for pretty much its entire existence, now stands in line with everyone else to await information. We have car magazines in our 'stable'. I see brand new Mercs, Porsches, Bentleys etc in the car park, provided for review by companies who recognise the importance of a relationship with the specialist press. Hornby no longer has that relationship.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Bernard Lamb]

We have car magazines in our 'stable'. I see brand new Mercs, Porsches, Bentleys etc in the car park, provided for review by companies who recognise the importance of a relationship with the specialist press. Hornby no longer has that relationship.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I see that as not being a big problem in the short term, when a large percentage of punters are familiar with the product. I do wonder how this policy will attract newcomers to the hobby. Very much a move to bring in sales at larger margins in the short term with little thought for the future. Or do they know what they are doing and have a further change of direction in the pipe line?

Bernard

[Ian Hargrave]

Rather than the black hole of the old days, I have to say that this is exactly the kind of communication that can only build up the confidence of enthusiasts that Hornby, despite obstacles, is working to correct things and is a fulfillment of one of the promises made by the new executive team.

Brave new world then.....into a bright shining new dawn ?

[No Decorum]

For a moment, I thought they were going to do an all new class 91!

That would have been most agreeable. New matching DVT too, of course.

[Ozexpatriate]

Brave new world then.....into a bright shining new dawn ?

I'm not sure I would go quite that far Ian. It is one promise kept by the executive team. Let's see if the others are kept too.

[Ozexpatriate]

As far as I can see, despite the initial promises, there is now NO direct contact whatever between Hornby and the model press, either paper or ether? I can't really see why it is expensive to send an e-mail saying, 'the S15s are in the shops now, so you can go out and buy one to review."

I see that as not being a big problem in the short term, when a large percentage of punters are familiar with the product. I do wonder how this policy will attract newcomers to the hobby. Very much a move to bring in sales at larger margins in the short term with little thought for the future. Or do they know what they are doing and have a further change of direction in the pipe line?

While I am happy to laud Hornby's improved direct communications with enthusiasts, I don't think this should happen at the expense of communicating with the trade press. That's not a good thing.

[dibber25]

While I am happy to laud Hornby's improved direct communications with enthusiasts, I don't think this should happen at the expense of communicating with the trade press. That's not a good thing.

Improved direct communications with SOME enthusiasts. There are still those who read the magazines and who don't have internet access, as any magazine Editor who ever ran an 'internet-only' competition will tell you! By confining its PR and publicity to the one mode, Hornby is actually doing SOME of its customers a disservice and we, magazine editorial teams, are having to use our resources, time and money, to provide that service instead.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Ian Hargrave]

I'm not sure I would go quite that far Ian. It is one promise kept by the executive team. Let's see if the others are kept too.

You will doubtlessly discern that my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted that

Edited October 17, 2015 by Ian Hargrave

[Fenman]

... we, magazine editorial teams, are having to use our resources, time and money, to provide that service instead.

CHRIS LEIGH

But the magazines are profit-seeking entities, not charities or a public service, so surely you should expect to have to use your resources to generate the content from which you make a profit?

 

From my perspective as a punter, I very much like the new approach Hornby is taking. It feels fun, too, rather than po-faced, and the enthusiasm of their development team is infectious: I actually found myself wondering if I could find a place for the new and lovely-looking LSWR stock, pottering around rural East Anglia.

 

Paul

[dibber25]

But the magazines are profit-seeking entities, not charities or a public service, so surely you should expect to have to use your resources to generate the content from which you make a profit?

 

From my perspective as a punter, I very much like the new approach Hornby is taking. It feels fun, too, rather than po-faced, and the enthusiasm of their development team is infectious: I actually found myself wondering if I could find a place for the new and lovely-looking LSWR stock, pottering around rural East Anglia.

 

Paul

If you were doing your hobby for a living, you'd find there's a very fine line between the magazine's resources and one's own. First and foremost, one provides a service to readers. For instance, I'm here doing magazine stuff on a Saturday morning. I'm not suggesting Hornby should stop doing what they are doing in reaching some of their customers direct. I think it's great. All I'm asking is that that they keep us in the loop with the occasional direct contact to let us know what's happening (as they promised but have failed to do) and when, so that one segment of their customers are not disadvantaged. Is that unreasonable? 

CHRIS LEIGH

[Dunsignalling]

Since we're on this subject yet again, can you tell us, Andy, if you get direct communications from Hornby these days? Or do you pick stuff up from their blogs, website etc. As far as I can see, despite the initial promises, there is now NO direct contact whatever between Hornby and the model press, either paper or ether? I can't really see why it is expensive to send an e-mail saying, 'the S15s are in the shops now, so you can go out and buy one to review." Instead of which, the press, which has supported Hornby and the hobby in general for pretty much its entire existence, now stands in line with everyone else to await information. We have car magazines in our 'stable'. I see brand new Mercs, Porsches, Bentleys etc in the car park, provided for review by companies who recognise the importance of a relationship with the specialist press. Hornby no longer has that relationship.

CHRIS LEIGH

And, if you carry on buying their models to review, it provides Hornby with no incentive to change their behaviour and reinforces their view that you need them more than they need you. Extending the car comparison to less exalted territory, could you imagine Ford refusing to loan a Focus for review if Vauxhall Astras etc were being so provided? .

 

Notwithstanding that it is has been known for the motoring press to destroy what they have been sent to review, the fragility of the detail on Hornby's models means that loaning is not really an option and they have decided (correctly, it seems) that each magazine editor will rush out to buy samples at full retail price rather than risk getting their review out a month later than another title.

 

If you wish to persuade them otherwise, there are pressures that can be brought to bear. Giving presentation of Hornby products lesser prominence would be a start. There are enough players in the market now to fill a review section (at least in some issues) without including anything from them!

 

If Hornby treat the press less favourably than other manufacturers, that should cut both ways. Adding a rider to the effect that their new loco had been squeezed into next month by the weight of other reviews would apply a little salt. Model Rail et al are not the BBC and have no duty of balance.

 

Just one question, maybe hypothetical, maybe not (but I'd be very surprised if it hasn't been considered).

 

If you were sent an Oxford Rail Adams Radial in time to review it an issue earlier than Hornby's, for which you had to wait for a retail sample, would you hold back to enable both to be reviewed together?

 

If you did, Hornby would have you exactly where they want you; getting preferential treatment over competitors, irrespective of their own actions.

 

John

Edited October 17, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Fenman]

If you were doing your hobby for a living, you'd find there's a very fine line between the magazine's resources and one's own. First and foremost, one provides a service to readers. For instance, I'm here doing magazine stuff on a Saturday morning. I'm not suggesting Hornby should stop doing what they are doing in reaching some of their customers direct. I think it's great. All I'm asking is that that they keep us in the loop with the occasional direct contact to let us know what's happening (as they promised but have failed to do) and when, so that one segment of their customers are not disadvantaged. Is that unreasonable?

CHRIS LEIGH

I am not questioning your motives. But your employer* is out to make money.

 

Some people argue that Hornby would get a good return from giving free stuff to profit-seeking publishers. But none of us is in a position to know that: only Hornby knows their cost/benefit, and, therefore, whether or not what you want is "unreasonable".

 

Given how heavy Hornby's losses have been recently, and given the - to me - impressive turnaround their new management has achieved, I'm happy to keep giving them the benefit of any doubt.

 

Paul

 

* I think you've told us before that you've retired, so replace this word with whatever is appropriate!

Edited October 17, 2015 by Fenman

[Fenman]

... If Hornby treat the press less favourably than other manufacturers, that should cut both ways.

 

...

 

If you were sent an Oxford Rail Adams Radial in time to review it an issue earlier than Hornby's, for which you had to wait for a retail sample, would you hold back to enable both to be reviewed together?

 

If you did, Hornby would have you exactly where they want you; getting preferential treatment over competitors, irrespective of their own actions.

 

John

Surely this is the wrong way of looking at it?

 

I would suggest the most important question is "what is in the best interests of our readers?", not whether this is an opportunity for revenge in a game of tit-for-tat.

 

Paul