The Engine Shed

[Ozexpatriate]

When was R3203 "Okehampton" announced? Was it the end of 2014?

 

Is this the first rebuilt West Country Hornby have modelled?

 

Given all the stink over "Exeter" when Hornby was really struggling with their supply chain issues*, I think it's encouraging to see them reissue it. Those people who really wanted one before but were disappointed will now be able to purchase one.

 

* I'm not saying that is all completely solved but dramatic improvements are evident.

[autocoach]

Pity Hornby could not have done Exeter in it's as built condition in 1945 as shown in the Engine Shed photo. They are doing the MN in the original 1941 condition. And accurate early Bulleid coaches in a green that matches the locomotive too?

 

I know it is too much to ask for.

[railroadbill]

When was R3203 "Okehampton" announced? Was it the end of 2014?

 

Is this the first rebuilt West Country Hornby have modelled?

 

Given all the stink over "Exeter" when Hornby was really struggling with their supply chain issues*, I think it's encouraging to see them reissue it. Those people who really wanted one before but were disappointed will now be able to purchase one.

 

* I'm not saying that is all completely solved but dramatic improvements are evident.

Not the first Hornby rebuilt WC/BB,  I've got 34008 Padstow and 34088 213 squadron, which I've had for some years now.  Nice models, run well, I really ought to shorten the tender draw bars.  Hope this helps.

Edited November 13, 2015 by railroadbill

[Ian Hargrave]

Not the first Hornby rebuilt WC/BB,  I've got 34008 Padstow and 34088 213 squadron, which I've had for some years now.  Nice models, run well, I really ought to shorten the tender draw bars.  Hope this helps.

The first rebuild to be modelled was 34003 Plymouth.I believe around New Year 2007.

[Guest]

Looking at Hornby's Box-Design Pic for Manston, I've got to ask...

I know a few of the Battle of Britain's carried red nameplates, rather than the more accustomed Blue or Black, but is the red right for '70? As far as I know, and have been able to find out, Manston's never had red nameplates. The red was much more synonymous with the WC's.

One other thing, but more one that can't really be helped, the information provided by Hornby for 34070 in preservation is out of date. Manston was out of service for about 3 months from January-March 2014 (just after the model was announced) while new Main Steam Pipes were fitted, and the Valve Gear received attention. However, currently:
 

Taken 28th Oct 2015

Regards,
Mr Pedantic of Poole
 

[Chris116]

The discussion regarding how many of Hornby's customers use the internet is one that applies to a wide range of other companies in many different parts of the business world.

 

My late father was a very forward looking person who liked many modern things but he never understood computers in any way and was very determined not to find out how they worked!

 

The fact that many modellers are in the over 60's age range (myself included) means that there must be a fair number who will never see Hornby's new method of communicating with their customers which must be bad news for any firm.

[Dunsignalling]

When was R3203 "Okehampton" announced? Was it the end of 2014?

 

Is this the first rebuilt West Country Hornby have modelled?

 

Given all the stink over "Exeter" when Hornby was really struggling with their supply chain issues*, I think it's encouraging to see them reissue it. Those people who really wanted one before but were disappointed will now be able to purchase one.

 

* I'm not saying that is all completely solved but dramatic improvements are evident.

The original Exeter appeared in the 2012 catalogue with a R31xx reference number so I think Okehampton (in the R32xx series) would have been in the next (2013) edition (which I can't find at present) so should have been announced in late 2012. It somehow seems much longer ago than that...........

 

As for Okehampton being the first rebuilt WC offered by Hornby, I have Plymouth, Padstow, Yes Tor, Westward Ho and Ottery St Mary plus a few with Battle of Britain names. So, no, it isn't.

 

John  

Edited November 14, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Well, not quite. IMHO, it's more like producing everything to P4 standards and then changing to 00.

Ah, but if you replace those "rollers" with a flanged wheelset, in OO it will go round 2'6 to 3' radius curves. If you move the wheels out to P4, you'll need double that.

 

The much-derided slack inherent in OO is what makes it possible to build an operationally satisfying layout that will fit into an average-size house.  

 

Personally, I much prefer the flangeless wheels to the alternative of a pivoted truck flopping about under the cab.

 

 

John

[No Decorum]

Ah, but if you replace those "rollers" with a flanged wheelset, in OO it will go round 2'6 to 3' radius curves. If you move the wheels out to P4, you'll need double that.

 

The much-derided slack inherent in OO is what makes it possible to build an operationally satisfying layout that will fit into an average-size house.  

 

Personally, I much prefer the flangeless wheels to the alternative of a pivoted truck flopping about under the cab.

 

 

John

Good point about 00 but I think we shall have to agree to differ on the flangless wheels and pivoted truck. I'd like to add that my Hornby A4 will take much tighter curves because it was possible to pare off four pieces of plastic on the inside of the truck to allow the flanged wheels more lateral play.

[Ozexpatriate]

Looking at Hornby's Box-Design Pic for Manston, I've got to ask...

 

I know a few of the Battle of Britain's carried red nameplates, rather than the more accustomed Blue or Black, but is the red right for '70? As far as I know, and have been able to find out, Manston's never had red nameplates. The red was much more synonymous with the WC's.

Ironically "The Engine Shed" shows the model illustration (early BR crest) with red nameplates underneath a photograph showing a very light coloured* nameplate (late BR crest) dated September 21, 1963.

 

* It looks more washed out than the blue of the RAF crest below it.

 

The box illustration (early crest) appears to show a darker colour - quite possibly red. The box illustration might be a preservation photograph.  I can't tell.

 

EDIT: fixed date of photograph.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Vistisen]

The discussion regarding how many of Hornby's customers use the internet is one that applies to a wide range of other companies in many different parts of the business world.

 

My late father was a very forward looking person who liked many modern things but he never understood computers in any way and was very determined not to find out how they worked!

 

The fact that many modellers are in the over 60's age range (myself included) means that there must be a fair number who will never see Hornby's new method of communicating with their customers which must be bad news for any firm.

Why? to put it bluntly, the fogeys will carry on buying out of habit no matter what Hornby does, they are either Hornby fans or not. What Hornby absolutely has to do is capture the imagination of the next generation if it is to have any chance of surviving. They use the net. Of all the people on RM web complaining about Hornby dropping ‘traditional’ communication is anyone of you under 50? I am, just! ( for a few months yet ). I and subscribe to a magazine, but not for news, but for its in depth features and inspiration. For news I use the web, Facebook, and forums such as but not exclusively RMWEB.

[Guest]

Ironically "The Engine Shed" shows the model illustration (early BR crest) with red nameplates underneath a photograph showing a very light coloured* nameplate (late BR crest) dated November 21, 1963.

 

* It looks more washed out than the blue of the RAF crest below it.

 

The box illustration (early crest) appears to show a darker colour - quite possibly red. The box illustration might be a preservation photograph.  I can't tell.

That's the one thing I can guarentee it's not.

Manston was first returned to steam in 2008, and has run in BR Green Late Crest with a cut-down 4,500g tender since then.

 

To my eye, the nameplate in the box-illustration is black (stating the obvious, but hear me out). The light is shining on the side of the locomotive facing the camera which brings out the difference in shades on the B&W scale. The nameplate is a much darker shade of grey in the photo, than the right-hand buffer shank which as per most steam engines, would have been red along with the rest of the buffer beam. However, that could be due to dirt build up and weathering, as the nameplate doesn't match the roof casing either, but does match the tender frames.

 

Regards,

Matt

Edited November 13, 2015 by TheSoutherner

[Dunsignalling]

Ironically "The Engine Shed" shows the model illustration (early BR crest) with red nameplates underneath a photograph showing a very light coloured* nameplate (late BR crest) dated September 21, 1963.

 

* It looks more washed out than the blue of the RAF crest below it.

 

The box illustration (early crest) appears to show a darker colour - quite possibly red. The box illustration might be a preservation photograph.  I can't tell.

 

EDIT: fixed date of photograph.

Looking through B&W photos in Mr Derry's book on the subject, with particular reference to non-rebuilt locos that appear in good condition, a few things become apparent.

 

1. 'WCs' (apart from obviously black examples) generally carried red-backed plates, and most appear in B&W as a similar shade to the green of the loco sides.

 

2. On 'BBs', most of which will have had blue plates, the usual impression is of a shade somewhat lighter than body colour. Not unlike the November 1963 photo in the link.

 

3. My previous Collectors' Club edition 'Manston' has the cut down tender as currently paired with the preserved prototype (and has blue plates). The new one is presumably intended to portray the loco as running in BR service condition before December 1962 when her tender was 'edited'. It is actually somewhat earlier than that because the photo of 34070 in 'Derry' shows the later BR emblem on the still high-sided tender in June 1962. This was likely to have been applied at an earlier works visit in March 1960 or March 1962 but I haven't established which because I haven't yet found any photos from between those dates. On a few other locos so treated this seems to have happened a couple of months after transfer from SE to SW territory so the balance of probability points to the later visit. 

 

4. Hornby's only previous application of red nameplates to a BB was on '73 Squadron'. That is known (from colour photos) to be correct for approximately three years prior to its tender being cut-down (early 1960 to late 1962) and possibly earlier but it is not certain when they were first so painted. They look very pale in a 1950 photo in 'Derry', suggesting that they might have been blue at that time but the shot appears to have been taken in very bright conditions so it could be a trick of the light.

 

John      

[Ian Hargrave]

Why? to put it bluntly, the fogeys will carry on buying out of habit no matter what Hornby does, they are either Hornby fans or not. What Hornby absolutely has to do is capture the imagination of the next generation if it is to have any chance of surviving. They use the net. Of all the people on RM web complaining about Hornby dropping ‘traditional’ communication is anyone of you under 50? I am, just! ( for a few months yet ). I and subscribe to a magazine, but not for news, but for its in depth features and inspiration. For news I use the web, Facebook, and forums such as but not exclusively RMWEB.

Your choice of the term "fogeys" is to say the least unfortunate.It demonstrates a barely disguised contempt for many of us and is unnecessarily offensive .

Edited November 14, 2015 by Ian Hargrave

[Chris116]

Why? to put it bluntly, the fogeys will carry on buying out of habit no matter what Hornby does, they are either Hornby fans or not. What Hornby absolutely has to do is capture the imagination of the next generation if it is to have any chance of surviving. They use the net. Of all the people on RM web complaining about Hornby dropping ‘traditional’ communication is anyone of you under 50? I am, just! ( for a few months yet ). I and subscribe to a magazine, but not for news, but for its in depth features and inspiration. For news I use the web, Facebook, and forums such as but not exclusively RMWEB.

As an over 60 "fogey" I buy new and secondhand items from shops, exhibitions and on the net. I know what is going on in the hobby through reading magazines and the net. Those who do not use the net could miss out on Hornby items due to not knowing about them. That is Hornsby's loss and possibly other manufacturers gain. I think Hornby are right to use the net to the maximum but the 'fogeys' are still a large part of the market who they should also be encouraging. Most young people are guided into the hobby by an adult so upsetting those adults could be a bad idea!

[Vistisen]

Your choice of the term "fogeys" is to say the least unfortunate.It demonstrates a barely disguised contempt for many of us and is unnecessarily offensive .

It's what my children call me, I did not mean to cause offence I'm sorry

[Dunsignalling]

Why? to put it bluntly, the fogeys will carry on buying out of habit no matter what Hornby does, they are either Hornby fans or not. What Hornby absolutely has to do is capture the imagination of the next generation if it is to have any chance of surviving. They use the net. Of all the people on RM web complaining about Hornby dropping ‘traditional’ communication is anyone of you under 50? I am, just! ( for a few months yet ). I and subscribe to a magazine, but not for news, but for its in depth features and inspiration. For news I use the web, Facebook, and forums such as but not exclusively RMWEB.

To be frank, model railways are, in overall business terms, a fairly small market that is currently supported, in large part, by those 'fogeys' many of whom who have good occupational pensions plus the free time to indulge their interests. Hornby et al are beavering away supplying all sorts of goodies while that situation continues.

 

Realistically, it's not going to do so (at current levels) for much more than another decade and it seems unlikely that current and future younger generations will have as much cash or time in retirement to devote to hobbies. Even taking an optimistic view on that, it is fanciful to assume that as large a proportion of their age groups will take up railway modelling was the case with mine. When we began, it was a fairly mainstream interest but that is no longer so. For most folk today, even many of us with a passion for the railways of yesteryear, trains are just a method of getting around and seldom the one of first resort at that.

 

That won't be the disaster for Hornby that some on the inside of the hobby looking out tend to prophesy. So long as model trains continue to generate profits, Hornby will service the market for them (and will communicate with actual or potential customers by whatever means they find effective).

 

Hornby's income stream from the "fogeys" will diminish over time and newcomers won't fully compensate for that. However, the way businesses like theirs work nowadays makes it easy to shift their emphasis from declining segments to more active ones. That applies as much to manufacturing as it does to communications technology.

 

What nobody should assume, however, is that those who don't dive headlong into the joys of social media are economically inactive. Their money is as good as yours "young man" and it is quite possible they have more of it and spend less of what they do have on hi-tech gadgetry, leaving more for model trains.

 

Commercial organisations like Hornby turn their backs on any means by which they have maintained links with existing customers at their peril. It has always been the case that it is much harder to recruit new regular customers than it is to lose established ones. 

 

I take a pragmatic view on the future of the hobby; if newcomers join, all well and good. If they don't, it's not a problem for me and it might not be for Hornby .

 

John  - a fully paid-up Old Fart - never fogey.     

Edited November 14, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

It's what my children call me, I did not mean to cause offence I'm sorry

Fair enough

[The Stationmaster]

The discussion regarding how many of Hornby's customers use the internet is one that applies to a wide range of other companies in many different parts of the business world.

 

My late father was a very forward looking person who liked many modern things but he never understood computers in any way and was very determined not to find out how they worked!

 

The fact that many modellers are in the over 60's age range (myself included) means that there must be a fair number who will never see Hornby's new method of communicating with their customers which must be bad news for any firm.

Interestingly I recently heard something which indicates that a large section of part of the model railway buying market do not look at the 'net (or perhaps not this part of it?) and remain heavily influenced by what they read in magazines.  Now these folk might or might not all be of an older generation but I suspect that is irrelevant as I know a large number of older people on the 'net (and indeed have formed a number of friendships that way) so I think age is not necessarily the bar to 'net use which many people seem to think it is.

 

On the other hand it is very clear that what seems like a major part of the younger generation regard the 'net or its various byways as their principal means of communication and obtaining information, which makes the whole idea of 'The Engine Shed' a very sensible one both as information and as a marketing tool.   I wholeheartedly agree with everything John (Dunsignalling) has said  and would add that if the signs in other 'cash heavy' hobbies are any sort of guide then as the older ones fall off the perch there are still going to be newcomers coming along although probably in smaller numbers.

 

And like John I consider, and sometimes refer to, myself as a fully paid up OF - but never a fogey

[Vistisen]

It all just goes to show how names and labels affect people in different ways. I'd much rather be called a fogey than an Old Fart. To my ears that is much more offensive. Just to make sure that I really hadn't insulted people I looked up the origins of the word foegy it come (somewhat aptly in the light of the last 24 hours) from the French for word fougueux (fierce or fiery). In the 1800’s it was a nickname for an invalid, wounded soldier, an old fighter that did not give up.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Vistiaen

[railroadbill]

Once upon a time, back in the early 80s I think, there were a category of younger people called Young Fogeys (should that be fogies?). Writing with a fountain pen and wearing tweed jackets with leather arm patches while reading the Daily Telegraph (insert "traditional" paper of choice here) while being 25 or so would have been typical signifiers.   For some strange reason the category morphed into yuppies, as the 80s picked up speed.

 

 

I was going to say that it was "old" that was the more objectionable word, but actually older is better. The older you get the closer you are to being the person you're working to become.

 

But Hornby is fine reaching out to a younger market with social media. The Airfix site is really cool and groovy, so why not the railway stuff as well?.   imho     :-)

[Vistisen]

Once upon a time, back in the early 80s I think, there were a category of younger people called Young Fogeys (should that be fogies?). Writing with a fountain pen and wearing tweed jackets with leather arm patches while reading the Daily Telegraph (insert "traditional" paper of choice here) while being 25 or so would have been typical signifiers.   For some strange reason the category morphed into yuppies, as the 80s picked up speed.

 

 

I was going to say that it was "old" that was the more objectionable word, but actually older is better. The older you get the closer you are to being the person you're working to become.

 

But Hornby is fine reaching out to a younger market with social media. The Airfix site is really cool and groovy, so why not the railway stuff as well?.   imho     :-)

I think that young fogeys morphed into hipsters.  I have just bought the ladybird book about them. Brilliant fun http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/ladybird-books-new-adult-targeted-series-takes-wholesome-publications-in-a-less-innocent-direction-a6689306.html

Edited November 14, 2015 by Vistiaen

[railroadbill]

Thanks, Vistiaen,  I just came across the revisionist joke Ladybird books in Foyles yesterday when we were wandering round Westfield with my daughter and grand daughter. I didn't have time to look at the ones they had on display, but your link has explained all! Since I hadn't looked at a ladybird book since childhood, I didn't know if  they were actually still going, or if it was a mickey-take!!   Surprised that the article says that Penguin didn't like a satirical version of the execrable Janet and John books, though. 

 

If you fancy an American take on US graphic art of the 50s & 60s you might like this website. Not always that funny, but sometimes hits the spot.

 

http://www.gocomics.com/lastkiss

Edited November 14, 2015 by railroadbill

[stewartingram]

Don't know about Old Fogey, but I refer to my bus pass as a GOG card.

 

 

 

(Grumpy Old Git card).

 

Stewart

[railroadbill]

Don't know about Old Fogey, but I refer to my bus pass as a GOG card.

 

 

 

(Grumpy Old Git card).

 

Stewart

I've just gone for OG  old git  - I'm obviously not alone, we'll show these young whippersnappers with their Hornby websites etc etc ....