The Engine Shed

[melmerby]

39 minutes ago, autocoach said:

The Hornby/Rivarossi "big boy" has been resurrected again. https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/rivarossi-h0-1-87-union-pacific-heavy-freight-train-steam-locomotive-class-4000-big-boy-running-number-4014-special-edition-in-celebration-of-the-150th-anniversary-of-the-first-transcontinental-railroad.html.  New and improved. They appear to have RP25 size flanges on all the wheels this time.

 

 

I don't need one, It won't fit on my layout, it's the wrong country, when can I buy one?

 

Edit: May 4th 4014 starts on it's tour from Cheyenne depot

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/big-boy-release-event-tickets-59066950840

Edited April 26, 2019 by melmerby

[Andy Hayter]

40 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

 

Edit: May 4th 4014 starts on it's tour from Cheyenne depot

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/big-boy-release-event-tickets-59066950840

 

I think you will find that May 4th 4014 starts (and finishes) on a Wednesday - Trumpday as it will then be known.

[Steamport Southport]

Darth Vader Day surely?

 

 

Jason

[Chris89]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And not really much more than the Tillig 2-10-2s I've been acquiring. But they are HOm, and tiny by comparison. As for the HOe Bemo 0-4-4-0s, Saxon IVks, at over £500 a pop, these are even smaller, yet all to the same 1:87 scale. 

 

The fact is that British OO models are almost all very fine value, by comparison with other countries' models. 

 

Have to agree for the Value sake (although, shop i got the BR85 from, One of the guy's didn't think highly of Hornby though) But then Roco is in a different league, even better then the Stirling Single i'd have to say.

 

Either way the Prairie for sure is on my list, so are the Mark 2Fs as see me getting those Scotrail ones, over the Bachmann ones (Due to price mostly)

[phil gollin]

.

 

That Large Wheeled Prairie looks very nice  -  I hope it ends up a success.

 

This quote interested me (and is a warning to all "rivet counters")  ;

 

"....  As you can see below, the footplate edge has numerous bolts along its entire length. This posed a modelling problem as well as a manufacturing one. As for the modelling issue, these bolts needed to look right on a 00 gauge model, which is not as simple as it may sound. These bolts cannot simply be scaled down as this does not look correct. Like many aspects of the hobby, a balance must be struck between pure modelling accuracy and what looks right on the finished model. ...."

 

.

[truffy]

I guess it depends on what criteria you use to judge ‘looking correct’.

 

I know that in military modelling there are proponents and opponents of colour scaling. 

[robmcg]

9 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

That Large Wheeled Prairie looks very nice  -  I hope it ends up a success.

 

This quote interested me (and is a warning to all "rivet counters")  ;

 

"....  As you can see below, the footplate edge has numerous bolts along its entire length. This posed a modelling problem as well as a manufacturing one. As for the modelling issue, these bolts needed to look right on a 00 gauge model, which is not as simple as it may sound. These bolts cannot simply be scaled down as this does not look correct. Like many aspects of the hobby, a balance must be struck between pure modelling accuracy and what looks right on the finished model. ...."

 

.

 

I so agree.   Heljan's 47XX was criticised for the sin of 'not looking quite right' from certain angles.   And for having rivets that were too 'obvious'.  Having photographed these models from various angles in different types of light I can attest that sometimes rivets are barely visible, and only in the flat multi-direction light of such as Rails and other shop or magazine styles can they look odd or 'wrong' or 'too prominent'..

 

I don't recall real railways of the 50s and 60s being blessed with studio light.

 

You certainly can't please all the people all the time!

 

The Praire tanks look great to my eye so far.  (Hornby Engineshed pics)

[Philou]

I've got the Rivarossi 4-6-6-4 'Challenger' that I bought in Bud Morgan's of Cardiff in the early 70s for the princely sum of £77 then! I had never run it as I didn't have anywhere until I took it to my local club last year. Out of the box and for the first time after 45 years, since bought, and not run - it worked. Very smooth - not fast - but very powerful. I was surprised!!

 

If the 'Big Boy' is anything like the 'Challenger', I don't think you will be disappointed - cash well spent.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

PS: A photo to compare the 'Challenger' to a 'large' DB loco - imagine just how much bigger is the 'Big Boy'!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[jjb1970]

I wonder if the Big Boy is a one off special case to exploit an iconic prototype and also the heritage of Rivarossi or part of a wider re-boot of their North American range? They pulled the plug on their North American range which was sad as the new generation Rivarossi models such as the H8 and GE U25/28C were superbly done.

[Wickham Green]

I'll have a Big Boy ......... if I can figure out how to convert it to EM gauge.

[autocoach]

11 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I wonder if the Big Boy is a one off special case to exploit an iconic prototype and also the heritage of Rivarossi or part of a wider re-boot of their North American range? They pulled the plug on their North American range which was sad as the new generation Rivarossi models such as the H8 and GE U25/28C were superbly done.

Hornby has the talent to compete in the North American market but I doubt it has the financial strength and management breadth to bear the marketing investment cost of re-entry. It is a highly competitive market with over 10 major players (in HO: Rapido, Athearn, Broadway, Atlas, Bowser, InterMountain, MTH, Kato, Walthers, Bachmann USA, TrueLine and I'm sure I missed someone.) However it is mostly focusing on modern diesel (post 1980) provides less and less prototypes and almost an exclusive focus on freight. Multiple offerings of the same locomotive with only minor phase differences are common. And then there is the EMD F unit that everyone sells in every livery possible.   Siemens passenger locomotives are just beginning to stir in the market.  In steam everyone except Rapido and Bachmann want to sell only the large high value monster freight (see Big Boy, Challenger, Cab Forward NW Y class) and passenger steam locomotives. 

[Chris116]

Back in the early 70's I had a Saturday job at Platform Two, 118 Wimbledon Broadway. We sold new and second hand models in N, TT, HO, OO and OO9. The counter was about 20 feet long down the centre of the shop and featured an interesting OO layout which used third and fourth radius curves and if it was quiet would see the Rivarossi Big Boy in action on the outside loop. It used to cause a stir hauling about 20 Mk1 Hornby carriages! 

Just to confirm how big a Big Boy is, I saw the one in the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay Wisconsin next door to the A4 Dwight D. Eisenhower and the A4 looked VERY SMALL indeed. The A4 plus two LNER carriages were not as long as the Big Boy and it towered over them so much that it was like seeing an RHDR loco next to a Standard guage one. 

[JSpencer]

Big Boy in Cheyenne I took a couple of years ago. Thanks to its size, it was not hard to find.

Edited April 29, 2019 by JSpencer

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

Back in the early 70's I had a Saturday job at Platform Two, 118 Wimbledon Broadway. We sold new and second hand models in N, TT, HO, OO and OO9. The counter was about 20 feet long down the centre of the shop and featured an interesting OO layout which used third and fourth radius curves and if it was quiet would see the Rivarossi Big Boy in action on the outside loop. It used to cause a stir hauling about 20 Mk1 Hornby carriages! 

Just to confirm how big a Big Boy is, I saw the one in the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay Wisconsin next door to the A4 Dwight D. Eisenhower and the A4 looked VERY SMALL indeed. The A4 plus two LNER carriages were not as long as the Big Boy and it towered over them so much that it was like seeing an RHDR loco next to a Standard guage one. 

 

For what it's worth the Big Boy was very large and beautifully designed but its boiler could fit inside the boiler of a C&O H8 which Rivarossi also made, including under Hornby ownership (Virginian variant). The C&O H8 by Rivarossi is a stunning H0 model and can still be purchased new on Ebay from time to time. 

 

picture edited

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by robmcg
typos

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, robmcg said:

For what it's worth the Big Boy was very large and beautifully designed but its boiler could fit inside the boiler of a C&O H8...

 

Looking at the monster, I should think a Peckett W4 would fit inside the boiler!

 

Actually, I'm surprised the Americans would refer to a boiler as a boiler, an HPSGF (High Pressure Steam Generation Facility) woud be more their style... 

 

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

Looking at the monster, I should think a Peckett W4 would fit inside the boiler!

 

Actually, I'm surprised the Americans would refer to a boiler as a boiler, an HPSGF (High Pressure Steam Generation Facility) woud be more their style... 

 

 

At 300psi, for the US that would be quite almost a low preasure boiler for 1941.  The USN were already operating at around 700 psi at this time and were close to 1000 psi by the end of WWII.

 

 

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, Chris116 said:

 the A4 looked VERY SMALL indeed. The A4 plus two LNER carriages were not as long as the Big Boy and it towered over them so much that it was like seeing an RHDR loco next to a Standard guage one. 

Big Boy = 132' 9¼"

A4 = 71' 0¼"

Gresley coach = 63' 6" (x2)

All sizes over buffers

Do the maths!

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

At 300psi, for the US that would be quite almost a low preasure boiler for 1941.  The USN were already operating at around 700 psi at this time and were close to 1000 psi by the end of WWII.

 

 

Considering in 1929 Gresley had tried a marine boiler @ 450psi in the W1.

[JSpencer]

28 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Considering in 1929 Gresley had tried a marine boiler @ 450psi in the W1.

 

He was even ahead of the RN on that one. The UK was falling behind the US and Germany with watertube boiler tech at this point. Maybe Gresley's experiment would have been more successful with a US version that had already ironed out much of the problems of these types (Germany was not quite there interms of reliability). The RN entered WWII with outdated boilers that were inefficient (short radias of action) and needed big machine spaces (survivability impared because they were easier to hit and flood).

The W1 with US watertube and cast frames may have been a different beast. But that is another debate going OT here.

 

[Steamport Southport]

The LMS was well ahead. 6399 Fury was up to 1800psi.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_6399_Fury

 

 

 

Jason

[Oldddudders]

And of course the US did not generally believe in fusible plugs, so boiler explosions were more numerous, even in quite recent times, and big boilers do give big bangs. DRGW 4-6-6-4 #3703 lost its boiler in October 1952, and the boiler landed 250 ft from the point where it left the frames. Big forces involved - and only 255psi.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

The LMS was well ahead. 6399 Fury was up to 1800psi.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_6399_Fury

 

 

 

Jason

But that didn't drive the cylinders and was why I didn't include it.

450psi from W1's boiler did.

[43078shildoncountydurham]

Chaps,

 

Is big boy worth a pre order or wait?

 

regards

 

craig

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, 43078shildoncountydurham said:

Chaps,

 

Is big boy worth a pre order or wait?

 

regards

 

craig

Yes...