Piko SmartControl

[SamThomas]

Good advice from GU, especially with regard to trying a replacement PSU & setting up a test track/decoder reset.

 

IIRC with a command station that does not have internal track voltage setting the track nominal voltage will be 1volt less than the PSU.

[Rigaman]

Many thanks to GU for his excellent advice.  I have now solved my problem.  I decided to buy a DCCconcepts Alpha Meter to check my track voltage and when I found one at 20% off at Rails of Sheffield it settled the decision.  This has shown that my DCC track voltage is around 15.6v and therefore good.  The problem had to lie elsewhere and I decided to first look at some of the CVs I'd changed to implement ABC braking.   When I changed CV134 back to its original state, the problem went away!  Unfortunately ABC doesn't now seem to work but that's another problem and I'm happy to play with that myself for a while.

 

Thank you all who have commented on my problem.  I do appreciate it.

[lokalbahn]

I've been enjoying mine, but today it seems to have reset itself back to the bear OS - on boot up it now is in English, and then I get a lot of android errors 'Unfortunately, Launcher/SystemUI/google has stopped' so I am unable to do anything, other than chose language, and connect to the wifi, between the error messages. Is there a way to do a hard reset? I have tried a soft reset (power off wait - power on). I've also tried connecting to the Piko SmartControl updater. Is it toast?

 

Thanks!

[Ron Ron Ron]

A quick Google search on “Launcher/SystemUI/google has stopped”  came up with this…..

 

https://www.guidingtech.com/fix-system-ui-has-stopped-issue-android/

 

…and many more.

It appears to be a common Android problem, with various ways of fixing it.

 

 

.

[lokalbahn]

Thanks Ron - unfortunately because the launcher has stopped working I can't launch any apps (including settings etc) to try and remove or change any options :-(

[lokalbahn]

And magically it is now working again! I am now updating the app. If anyone is interested in the fix, buying a second hand ECoS worked for me. Just remember correlation is not causation :-) I also restarted it about 30 times over the last couple of days. So now I need to find out whether I can use it with the ECoS 50200...

[lokalbahn]

By the way, I had the developer options-> allow debugging over usb active (not set by me though) and turning that off allowed it to connect to the updater, which has now partially worked (1 out of 2)

[GoingUnderground]

If anyone is interested, ESU are now offering a service to upgrade/convert a SmartControl system into a CabControl system. This is a software/firmware upgrade, not a hardware upgrade, includes both the ICU and the Smartcontrol Handset.

 

They are also offering a service to upgrade just the handset software to the latest Mobile Control 2 software.

 

But it's not cheap, see https://www.esu.eu/en/support/warranty-repair/reparaturen/servicepauschalen/ECoS-ecoscontrol-radio-mobile-control-ii/

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for that welcome news Keith.

The cost of the upgrade is a bit steep, but I’m tempted to have it done.

I’ve never had a problem or glitch with the SmartControl set up…so far, fingers crossed……but future proofing is at the back of my mind.

 

 

.

[Alfie1]

Hi guy's I'm new here and have read with interest regarding the Piko 55040 Smart Control system. 

I bought mine in May 2019 and up to 2022 have been pleased with the unit, but now it has become very slow and sometimes non responsive, it also seems to forget some locos or there settings. (I have tried a reset and backup)

So no help from Piko not even a reply to 4 emails. So I contacted ESU in Germany last month who replied the next day to say they can update the Piko 55040 Smart Control system to the current spec of the current ESU 50310 Cab Control system for 149 euros but there is a problem with this.

Firstly you have to send both smart box and throttle to Germany and as we are no longer in the EU there is customs and duty to pay as it is classed as an export, ESU will refuse to pay any taxes on your parcel, so you must state a value of less than 30 euros to get round the import duties and VAT this is an extract from ESUs web site

“Please always add a commercial invoice to the product. This invoice is for customs purposes only and may not exceed € 30.00 (!), what in fact applies to the real value of a faulty item. If you only send the original invoice a so-called import turnover tax becomes due and the whole customs handling would be a lot more complicated. ESU doesn´t accept to pay this tax, therefore the parcel will be returned to you unopened.”

I am not happy to send my unit with no insurance etc to Germany as if it gets lost or damaged in transit I would get nothing, I do not have an issue to pay VAT on the cost of repair and it is unclear if I would have to pay import duty when it is returned to me.

ESU have told me to use Parcelforce have given me an HR code of 950300 and a Customs tariff number: 95030030 to use but both seem to be invalid and no helpline at parcelforce

Has anyone tried to send there unit to ESU in Germany for repair

I really like this system and wonder if it would be less hassle to just buy a new ESU 50310 Cab Control system or change to something else, any suggestions would be very welcome

[Nigelcliffe]

You could ask South West Digital (ESU importer into the UK), though they're under no obligation to assist as its a Piko product.  

Find a friend in Northern Ireland, and see what the rules are from there ?  

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

You could ask South West Digital (ESU importer into the UK), though they're under no obligation to assist as it’s a Piko product……. 

 

It appears they won’t be able to help with ESU products once out of warranty.

Southwest Digital have this note on the front page of their website…,

 

“Please note:  No ESU Repairs carried out in the UK

We can only give help and advice on ESU products.  We cannot help with any other DCC Systems.

 

ALL out of warranty items to be replaced or repaired will have to be returned directly to ESU Germany by yourselves.”

 

 

p.s. I’m sure I’ve read that there’s a customs code to cover items being sent across the customs border for repair or “alteration” and then returned, that I believe zero rates duty and VAT.

 

 

.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[Alfie1]

Thanks for your feedback, the codes ESU in Germany have supplied me with (HR code of 950300 and a Customs tariff number: 95030030) were to help I believe when it is returned so I would not pay duty on the whole system just the cost of the repair part. I assume these codes tell customs it left the UK and is now coming back, but I'm not sure. When I tried to use these codes thay come back as invalid

Maybe this is why UK dealers are unwilling to help when the item is out of warranty as these duties and taxes are horrendous.

I have not found any couriers as yet who can help or get round the insurance issue.

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Looks like the wrong codes Alfie1.

 

Quote from the UK Department of International Trade website…….
 

“…….you can export goods for repair, without advanced authorisation, to the EU (or any other country the UK has a trade agreement with, bearing a similar clause covering repaired goods) and re-import with duty and VAT waived.

 

The Customs Procedure Code (CPC) you must use at export is 21-00-000 and the goods can go for repair or “alteration” within the constraints of this CPC, and back into the UK under CPC 61-21-000. Duty and VAT will be waived accordingly.

However, if there is a cost for the process, for example the goods are not under a warranty for repair, duty and VAT will still have to be paid on the process/repair charges.

Due to this change, CPC 21-00-004 should no longer be used for OP exports to the EU.

 

Article GOODS.8: Repaired goods

“1. A Party shall not apply a customs duty to a good, regardless of its origin, that re-enters the Party’s territory after that good has been temporarily exported from its territory to the territory of the other Party for repair.

“2. Paragraph 1 does not apply to a good imported in bond, into free trade zones, or in similar status, that is then exported for repair and is not re-imported in bond, into free trade zones, or in similar status.

“3. A Party shall not apply a customs duty to a good, regardless of its origin, imported temporarily from the territory of the other Party for repair.”

 

(note Article Goods 8 is taken directly from the treaty wording…..only 1 & 2 being applicable.)

 

That would all appear very straightforward. UK and German customs shouldn’t be required to impose duty or VAT, other than for the repair or modification charges applied to out of warranty items.

Unfortunately, the government documents on the procedures and forms to be used, are very complex and totally baffling for a lay person, because they also cover commercial shipments and seem to be more orientated to goods which are temporarily exported for processing ( e.g. being manufactured into something), before being returned back.

 

Without knowing, I’m wondering if the SmartControl system would come under model railway equipment and therefore be zero rated for duty, meaning there would only be VAT liable on the upgrade and postage charges?

 

 

 

.

 

 

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Edited February 7, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[Alfie1]

Well I just can't work this out, it seams to be a minefield just to send the Piko back for this upgrade, so I have now ordered a new ESU 50310 Cab Control system from the States.

As the Piko 55040 works but has issues like it will just disconnect for no reason or other intermittent faults I will try a few other things with it when the new ESU is up and running.

I'm hopeful that all the Locos and switches I programmed into the Piko 55040 can just be loaded into the ESU by using the backup data I have on a USB stick (I emailed ESU to ask, but they replied it should work but they have never tried it)

I will let you have the outcome and if any of you guy's find out how to send things for repair in Germany, please let me know

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

I'm in the same boat as you Alfie1, regarding wanting to send my SmartControl system for the ESU update.

I haven't experienced any problems with it so far (touch wood), but it won't play ball with the ECoSBoost I purchased, even though it should.

I'm hoping ESU can get them working together.

 

If only the upgrade option was being offered a year ago, as my son was working in the Netherlands for 6 months and he could have sent it to ESU from his address there.

 

 

.

[TWG]

On 13/02/2023 at 18:08, Alfie1 said:

Well I just can't work this out, it seems to be a minefield just to send the Piko back for this upgrade...........

 

..........I will let you have the outcome and if any of you guys find out how to send things for repair in Germany, please let me know

 

 

There was a similar discussion not long ago arising out of the refusal of the Lenz importer to be involved in sending items back to Germany.  I wrote that I sent items for repair to Uhlenbrock without much difficulty.  I downloaded a Customs form CN22 from the Royal Mail website.  This does not require any Customs codes.  You have to tick a box describing the contents; I ticked Other

and entered Reperatur (Repair).  I took the package to the Post Office and paid £14 for tracked delivery with insurance of up to £250.  I assume that Uhlenbrock did not have to pay anything on receipt as they charged me only for the repair.  I had nothing to pay when I received the goods.

 

So not really a minefield in my (admittedly limited) experience. 

[Alfie1]

Hi Guy's

I have now received my new ESU 50310 Cab Control system from the States and I' m happy with it, everything is instant no waiting 20 seconds for it to execute a command. I also note it is running Android 6.0.1 and has the latest updates installed.

The only downside is it will not recognise my backup data from the Piko 55040 so I have had to reprogram every switch Locos and all there functions, but I am still happy with it.

Regarding sending the Piko to Germany for an update I am interested to read TWG of how easy it was to send to Germany, just makes me wonder why ESU feels the need to make the very clear instructions on there web site as well as to me in emails regarding sending to them. I guess the only way to find out for sure is to try taking it to the Post Office

 

[philip-griffiths]

On 05/02/2023 at 16:56, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Find a friend in Northern Ireland, and see what the rules are from there ?  

 

Good one Nigel. 
 

all Parcel Force / Royal Mail items leaving here go via GB so same rules apply. When I sent something to the south last year it had to have a customs form, as it goes via Liverpool. 

[GoingUnderground]

On 13/02/2023 at 20:18, Ron Ron Ron said:

I'm in the same boat as you Alfie1, regarding wanting to send my SmartControl system for the ESU update.

I haven't experienced any problems with it so far (touch wood), but it won't play ball with the ECoSBoost I purchased, even though it should.

I'm hoping ESU can get them working together.

 

If only the upgrade option was being offered a year ago, as my son was working in the Netherlands for 6 months and he could have sent it to ESU from his address there.

 

 

.

Rather late in the day to reply, Ron, and you may already know the answer, but your SmartControl can't (not won't) play ball with your ECoSBoost because the firmware in your SmartControl, 4.2.3 or earlier predates the release of ECoSBoost 50012. 

 

The firmware in the SmartControl, or an ECoS or a CabControl, is configured to recognise specific products. The firmware in your SmartControl cannot recognise the ECoSBoost 50012, which I assume is the one that you have, because it didn't exist when version 4.2.3 of the SmartControl firmware was released. 4.2.3 was, I think, the final version released by Piko for the SmartControl several years ago.

 

ECoS firmware 4.2.7 was the first version to recognise ECoSBoost 50012, CabControl had to wait until 4.2.8 was released to do likewise. But unless Piko release their version of 4.2.8, which is the latest firmware version for CabControl, SmartControl will never play with ECoSBoost 50012 as Piko have turned their back on the original ESU designed and made SmartControl and no longer support it, opting instead for the SmartControl Light which is derived from a Uhlenbrock DCC system.

 

The only option for anyone with the original SmartControl wanting to use the ECoSBoost 50012 is to get it upgraded by ESU to CabControl which will have the latest CabControl firmware, 4.2.8. Thereafter it will be eligible for all future CabControl firmware updates.

 

However, the older and discontinued ECoSBoost models, the 4 amp 50010 and 8 amp 50011, should both work with the original SmartControl without the upgrade to CabControl.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for that rather late reply Keith.

I’m well aware of all that by the way.

 

I have the 50010  4 amp ECoSBoost.

It should work.

The Piko user manual says it should.

It doesn’t.

 

I also have the Piko 55046  18v / 5.3 amp power supply, so I’m not short of track power.

The ECoSBoost was a bargain, secondhand purchase.

Said to be only briefly used and deemed surplus to requirements.

It certainly looks new, with pristine packaging and it powers up OK.

 

I’d like to send the SmartControl (SmartController and SmartBox) to ESU for the update to CabControl,  but I understand there are issues with ESU’s unwillingness to receive and carrying out repairs or updates on any ESU equipment from anywhere outside the EU.

This applies to the Piko SmartControl update.

There shouldn’t be any problem with the UK because there’s temporary export and re-import custom codes for repairs and updates, both inside and outside of warranty periods. No customs duty should apply. This also includes VAT exemptions, apart from applying to any part of the work that involves modification and improvement.

Unfortunately it’s a minefield and unless you get the categories and codes right, it could lead to inappropriate charges being made, which should not apply.

 

The same goes for example, repairing an ECoS outside of the original warranty period.

ESU won’t touch it and SW Digital don’t appear to be willing to get involved with out of warranty issues.

 

 

.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[GoingUnderground]

It should work, as I can't recall seen any comments on the ESU forum about the 4 and 8 amp boosters not working with SmartControl, or not working with CabControl come to that as when CabControl was first released it too had firmware 4.2.3. There were several about CabControl not working with the 50012 booster when it was the only one you could get from new, but firmware 4.2.8 for CabControl seems to have fixed that judging by the lack of comments on the ESU forum.

 

Just out of interest, did you check out the ECoSBoost and the connecting cable at all to make sure that they were both OK?

Edited May 26, 2023 by GoingUnderground

[young37215]

My comments are not strictly related to the thread but having spent 20 minutes attempting to find it using the search function, I decided I need to make a comment so that I can find the thread more easily in future.

 

My issue is one of adding power to an ESU manufactured system by way of a booster. I have Cab Control and am exploring adding either a 4 Amp or 7 Amp booster. Although I would prefer the newer 7 Amp version ESU reference 50012, it appears to have limited availability at present with none that I can find in the UK. I am comfortable importing from reputable overseas sellers despite the additional hurdles and challenges. Ben ontspoord of the Netherlands has several 4 Amp versions ESU reference 50010 for sale at for $149 which keeps it below the customs duty threshold. Even with postal charges, this works out about 40% (£100) cheaper than I can find the 7 AMp version for.  

 

Comment above from Going Underground indicates that the controller being boosted needs to have the necessary firmware to enable it to communicate with the booster. I have 4.2.8 in my Cab Control and am assuming that this should be able to communicate with older versions of ESU kit such as the 4 Amp 50012. Does anyone know different?