Piko SmartControl

[Martingchapman]

Just bought one of these and just stumbled upon this thread! Love the handset, very nice weight and quality to it. I too was also wondering about uploading images of my loco fleet.

On a slightly different note, my layout uses Tortoise point motors. I believe I need a particular type of accessory decoder to work them, does anybody know which?

 

Regards,

 

Lee

 

Hi Lee

How are you getting on with the SmartControl?

Have you tried connecting it to a PC running JMRI by any chance.

 

Martin.

[tmurray]

Hello,

 

Found this thread a while back, but I'm finally getting around getting a membership and to posting to it (!).

I think I'm the only person I know in the States that has one of these systems. I managed to pick it up from Hatton's back in February for a good price -a really good price. I'd been following the development of this system for a couple of years, as I first got word of it from my ESU rep. There were issues releasing it here with production, branding, and licensing. Piko decided to release it here, but has not marketed it as well as I had hoped. It has tremendous potential, and can compete with much larger setups, but it seems to be marketed as a "starter set." 

 

I did have a couple of issues initially; as I (not reading EVERY word in the manual) tried to charge the handheld with the USB port on the system -it bricked both. So, I hope others don't make that mistake. A reset of the firmware to both the handheld and the Smartbox proved successful in returning functionality to both.  The instructions provided by Piko on their site, worked fine and the process was really straight forward. But, this is not an exercise for those who aren't very familiar with PCs.

 

The LNet (or LocoNet) port is not active on the box.  This is completely due to Intellectual Property issues, and it's -supposedly- it's restricted by software, which disables the port.

Last week, I did receive the ECoS to LocoNet Converter, and have only NCE cabs. I'm trying to find a Fleischmann Profi Boss to replace my PowerCab, without any luck. If anybody knows where I could find one, I would be very grateful. :-)  There is basically zero documentation on this converter from Piko or ESU.

 

There are a few shortcomings, in my view, such as a fascia mounted holder that can also charge the unit via the contacts on the rear, and the limited power supply. But, I do believe these are being addressed by ESU and we'll see some new accessories, hopefully this year.

 

The hookup to JMRI is something I haven't tried yet, and connecting to my phone using various apps, has yet to work, for some reason. With a working handheld, I haven't really put a lot of effort into this yet, so maybe in the next week I'll play more.

 

Has anyone else had hands-on experience using the system?

 

-Tom

Edited July 24, 2017 by tmurray

[Martingchapman]

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the forum.

 

I have had the PIKO SmartControl for a few months now, but not had a lot of time to "play" with it.

However, I am very happy with what I have done so far.

It will connect to JMRI and behaves as if it was an ESU ECoS.

 

I have a small OO layout with twin track ovals and a couple of terminus stations (still work in progress) but one of the things I like about the PIKO is the ability to easily select a loco from the list (you don't have to remember loco numbers, you can select them by name) and get it running, then select another and get that running then select a third and get that running.

Then the really cool thing is to go back to the first or second loco, just by swiping to it and the speed controller goes to the setting for that loco which it was at when you left it.

Watching the rotary control go to this setting on its own is great, and it makes it really easy to have a couple of locos circling the ovals whilst shunting a third in the station and to switch between them at will.

 

A fascia mounted holder/charger would be a great accessory to have.

All my locos are sound equipped and I can have four running simultaneously without any problems, so for me the power supply is not a problem.

 

Not a LocoNet user so no experience of this.

Have tried ECoS Controller on my Android phone and it works fine, not sure if it is any improvement over the SmartController though.

Would like the ability to upload my own loco images.

 

Martin

Edited July 26, 2017 by Martingchapman

[Ron Ron Ron]

ESU have now introduced their own version of the SmartControl.

New topic here.....

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127210-new-esu-cabcontrol-dcc-system/

 

 

 

 

.

[njee20]

Do we know if the Smart Control will definitely not (or definitely will) work paired with an ECoS? Tempted by the Smart Control, but I know I’d like some of the features of the larger screen on the ECoS, and can see me buying one down the line. But it will definitely be that way around, as woukd use the Smart Control for 95% of my operating.

 

There are some YouTube videos appearing to show both alongside each other, I know the Mobile Control II is a slave to the ECoS, but I don’t have the requisite funds to purchase both an ECoS and a Mobile Control 2 at the same time!

[Ron Ron Ron]

Do we know if the Smart Control will definitely not (or definitely will) work paired with an ECoS? .....

 

I have just acquired a SmartControl, but don't have an ECoS to hand to test this out.

 

However, on page 14 of the handbook, with regard to the ECoSLink socket on the back of the SmartBox, it states that "You can connect your PIKO SmartBox with an ESU ECoS command station".

The SmartControl system can also be used with all ESU compatible devices (i.e. all the ECoS add-on's, boosters and modules etc.).

 

The new ESU DCC system, the CabControl, which is a direct ESU badged equivalent to the SmartControl (apart from the increased 7 amp track power rating), uses standard MobileControl 2 handsets.

If additional handsets are required for this system, then these would be the same MobileControl 2 handsets that are available for the MobileControl 2 add-on to the ECoS.

There are additional PIKO badged SmartController handsets available for the SmartControl system, but I've no idea if these can be used independently with the ESU CabControl or a MobileControl 2 equipped ECoS.

 

I haven't yet been able to properly test my new SmartControl, but the app looks very much like the ESU app.

I don't yet know whether or not it's exactly the same, or will work seamlessly with the ECoS or CabControl.

 

The SmartControl and the CabControl are basically the core of the ECoS without the extra features associated with the ECoS console (hardware console controls, large screen, route control and editing features etc).

According to the SmartControl handbook, with regard to connecting to model railroad software....

"The PIKO SmartBox acts like an ESU ECoS command station. In most cases you will be able to connect using the ESU ECoS settings."

The handbook also says that the PIKO SmartControl is supported by JMRI, RocRail, RR&co TrainController, WinDigiPet software.

 

 

 

.

[njee20]

Awesome, so it sounds like if one were to procure a Cab Control (which I think is still technically US only at the moment) or a Smart Control you could later 'add' an ECoS. I'm not quite sure why I feel like I might want an ECoS down the line mind. Wonder if there are ever any deals to be had at Warley...

 

Be interested to know how you find the Smart Control.

Edited November 6, 2017 by njee20

[Ron Ron Ron]

....Be interested to know how you find the Smart Control.

 

 

Interesting for me too, as I haven't yet been able to have a proper play with it, due to being up to my neck in decorating and DIY jobs to be completed before Xmas ....or (comedy German accent)... I 'vil be shot.

First impression is that the handset is very comfortable in the hand and the control knob and programable physical buttons are ergonomically well designed and easy to operate without looking at the handset.

I hope to post some more once I've become familiar with the system.

 

 

.

[njee20]

Look forward to hearing it. I should pop down to Gaugemaster and give one a go, being left handed it's amazing how many hand held devices manage to get the ergonomics to be somehow 'biased'.

 

Sorely tempted by one of the sets with track and a train, looks like you'd easily recoup the price difference by selling it on.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Look forward to hearing it. I should pop down to Gaugemaster and give one a go, being left handed it's amazing how many hand held devices manage to get the ergonomics to be somehow 'biased'.

 

Sorely tempted by one of the sets with track and a train, looks like you'd easily recoup the price difference by selling it on.

 

 

Good news regarding left/right handedness.

The physical buttons are assigned (mapped) by the user to whatever function you require them to perform.

Also, the control knob can be worked by your thumb from either side.

 

Price wise, mine cost me significantly less (...and I mean a lot less) than what Gaugemaster and others are asking for one of these.

 

 

.

[njee20]

I see some of the German retailers are doing the set with the ICE and the freight loco/wagons for c€550, I reckon you'd easily get €300 back for the bits. It's tempting...

[njee20]

Having had a play at Warley last week I've bitten the bullet and ordered one of the starter sets.

 

If anyone wants a sound-fitted BR245 diesel, some nice double deck coaches or some track for a good price just shout!

 

How are you getting on with yours Ron?

[Ron Ron Ron]

How are you getting on with yours Ron?

 

 

Still in its box unfortunately.

I only had the opportunity for a quick play when it arrived, then packed it away until I could spend some quality time getting familiar with it.

I had hoped that would have happened by now, but circumstances have worked against me.

Where does all the time go, when you're retired?

Even the trip to Warley ended up being 4 days away from home and we're away on holiday (again) all next week.

 

My test track is stored away at the moment, but I've just acquired a rolling road, so hopefully I can set that up with the SmartControl after next weekend.

Two new sound fitted locos and 6 more decoders to fit after Warley, so I need to crack on.

 

 

 

.

[NickC]

Can anybody tell me if the fan in the smart box should be running when the unit is powered on? I have just got one and the fan starts when the smartbox is switched on and then immediately stops.

On startup the track power led blinks slowly (which indicates that there is no power to the track) and then occasionally goes solid green when the stop button is pressed on the smart controller and the track powers up, however most frequently when the power button is pressed on the smart controller it blinks green and returns to red. The track power led on the smart box changes from a green slow blink to a rapid green blink and there is no track power. Anybody any idea what's going on? There is no short-circuit on the layout and happens even with no locos on the track (The layout runs fine if I return to using my old Hornby eLink controller). I can't find any information in the handbook or on the Piko website, I'm wondering if the smart box is faulty and I'll have to return it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Nick.

The fan runs as a test for a brief period on startup.

From your description, it sounds like you might be turning the track power off or selecting an emergency stop, when you are trying to turn it on.

 

From the latest edition of the user manual....

 

 

PIKO SmartBox startup sequence. (page 18)

 

After connecting your PIKO SmartBox to power, the following procedure is executed:

 

1. The power status LED on the right will light up permanently.

2. Shortly after, a second green LED and a blue LED will blink for a moment  (green LED for track status, blue LED for active connection).

3. The fan inside the PIKO SmartBox will spin up briefly (as a test).

4. The startup procedure is finished now. The green LED for track status will blink on a one second interval, until the system is set to "green"( status "GO" to activate the track power) via the silver letters "STOP / II" or via the function button at the upper right side of the device.

 

After starting the PIKO SmartControl App, the blue LED will be on, until the connection is cancelled or lost.

In case of a short circuit, the PIKO SmartBox will cut off the track power and the green LED for track status, will blink with a faster frequency than before.

 

 

Also, note what it says in section 2.2. (page 10)  about the "Stop / II" button.

Pressing the "Stop /II" button for longer than the set time parameter, will cut power to the layout and the LED will go to red.

Restart track power by pressing the "Stop / II" button again.

 

 

I hope that helps?

 

.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[NickC]

Ron,

Thanks that is helpful. You must have a different version of the manual because mine (v1.0.14) does not contain that information.

So it appears that the smartbox has decided that there is a short circuit because the green LED for track status is blinking rapidly and there is no track power. Looks like the smartbox must be faulty then because I know there is no short circuit and Indeed if I re-connect my old eLink the layout works fine from RailMaster. Looks I'm going to have to see about returning it for repair or replacement.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Ron,

Thanks that is helpful. You must have a different version of the manual because mine (v1.0.14) does not contain that information.

So it appears that the smartbox has decided that there is a short circuit because the green LED for track status is blinking rapidly and there is no track power. Looks like the smartbox must be faulty then because I know there is no short circuit and Indeed if I re-connect my old eLink the layout works fine from RailMaster. Looks I'm going to have to see about returning it for repair or replacement.

 

 

v1.0.14 ...from 2015 is out of date.

 

v1.1.0 / SB v4.1.3 is the latest copy I have (sent to me from PIKO).

 

The section I quoted has indeed been added, along with a few other things.

For example, the old section 6 (Overview of the Android operating system) is now section 8, with a new section 6 and 7.

 

Section 7 deals with how to turn off the SmartControl system properly.

Both the SmartController and SmartBox each need to be shut down following the correct sequence.

 

Regards the LED's....I can't confirm it at the moment, but I think the rapid blinking for a short may also apply to an emergency stop.

 

 

 

.

[NickC]

My smartbox appears to be on v1.1.2, whilst the smartcontroller is on v4.1.3 so latest software, just an out of date manual

[Martingchapman]

Can anybody tell me if the fan in the smart box should be running when the unit is powered on? I have just got one and the fan starts when the smartbox is switched on and then immediately stops.

On startup the track power led blinks slowly (which indicates that there is no power to the track) and then occasionally goes solid green when the stop button is pressed on the smart controller and the track powers up, however most frequently when the power button is pressed on the smart controller it blinks green and returns to red. The track power led on the smart box changes from a green slow blink to a rapid green blink and there is no track power. Anybody any idea what's going on? There is no short-circuit on the layout and happens even with no locos on the track (The layout runs fine if I return to using my old Hornby eLink controller). I can't find any information in the handbook or on the Piko website, I'm wondering if the smart box is faulty and I'll have to return it.

 

Nick,

I can confirm that the post from Ron giving the startup sequence is correct.

 

If you have a short circuit then the led on the SmartController (SC) will immediately go from green to red and the green track power led on the SmartBox (SB) will change from steady to rapid blink.

Once you remove the short circuit and press the "Stop/II" button on the SC then the SC led should go back to green and the SB track power led should go steady green.

 

Here are a few checks you can do before you send the box back (apologies in advance if you have already tried these)

Unplug the "Prog" and "Main" track connectors from the SB, plug in only the power cable and see what happens, does it go through the start up sequence and end up with the Green Status led (right hand one) on steady and the Green Track Power led (left hand one) flashing?

If so, power up the SC, open the PIKO app and connect (via WiFi) to the SB.

Once connected, on the SB the Blue WiFi status led should be on steady with the Green Status led (right hand one) on steady and the Green Track Power led (left hand one) flashing?.

Press the "Stop/II" button on the SC (if you have enabled the "Stop button delay" feature you will have to press and hold the button for >0.5 seconds for it to activate), the red led on the SC should go green and the flashing green Track Power led on the SB should go steady.

If you manage to get the system into this (working) state then it suggests it is ok and the problem is a short circuit on either the Main or Prog track connections (because at the moment they are disconnected).

If the system is ok to this point then to prove it is working, select a loco on the SC and set the speed to say 10 and the sound to on (if sound enabled).

Then connect a couple of wires to the Main track connector and plug it into the SB, then touch the ends of the wires to opposite wheels on the selected (upturned) loco.

The loco should start to run and the sound should turn on, if it does then the SC/SB is ok and you need to look further for the problem.

 

If however, with the system set up initially as above (with the Main and Prog connections disconnected) and you still have a red led on the SC and flashing green led on the SB then it looks as if the system is faulty.

 

If the problem only occurs when you connect the track it must be a local short circuit.

You say this is not the case because it works ok when you connect the elink and Railmaster, are you sure you are disconnecting everything including the elink, before you connect the SB?

 

Regards the manual, the latest version (as listed by Ron) can be downloaded from this page on the PIKO website -

http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=5&vw_name=detail&vw_id=79

 

Martin.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Martingchapman

[NickC]

​Martin, Thank you for your input. I have tried working through your suggestion this morning.

The SmartBox indicates a short-circuit as soon as the Stop/II button is pressed even when started with both Main and Prog unplugged, thus I can only conclude that the problem is within the smartBox. Thank you to both you and Ron for your help

Nick

Edited December 5, 2017 by NickC

[Martingchapman]

Nick,

In that case it may be worth taking the cover off the SB and inspecting the pcb around the Main and Prog socket area just to make sure there are no wire whispers shorting out the pins or contacts.

Section 3.1 of the manual has clear instructions on how to open the unit up its very easy, as it says just be careful of the fan.

 

I guess the other option is a warranty replacement.

If you go for this option, when you get the replacement unit, first thing to do is power it up without the Main or Prog connections, just the power connection.

Then connect the SC as before and see if it works ok.

Then try the two wire test on a known good loco.

Only then connect it to your track.

In that way you can be 100% sure the unit is ok out of the box, any problems from then on must be related to your individual set up.

 

Martin.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Martingchapman

[Martingchapman]

​Martin, Thank you for your input. I have tried working through your suggestion this morning.

The SmartBox indicates a short-circuit as soon as the Stop/II button is pressed even when started with both Main and Prog unplugged, thus I can only conclude that the problem is within the smartBox. Thank you to both you and Ron for your help

Nick

 

Nick,

Did you get this resolved?

[NickC]

Martin, the SmartBox was replaced under warranty, however it had exactly the same problem. That was sent back too and today I have just received a refund. There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with the output stage of the SmartBox (or I was just very unlucky) because even with a short circuit the output stage shouldn't fail completely and indeed I am confident that it isn't a short circuit problem with my layout because it works fine using a Hornby eLink and is happy to run for hours on end.

Nick

[Martingchapman]

Nick, sorry you have had so much trouble with the SmartBox and surprised you have two units fail in exactly the same way.

 

I have had no end of short circuits on my unit as I have built and run my layout and the SmarBox always recovers with ease.

In fact this is one of the strengths of the unit, when you clear the short it reverts back to exactly how it was before the short happened, all the locos go back to running at the same speed/direction they were before the short. 

 

I guess you have had enough of it by now, but if not and you can be bothered I would like to know what you did with the second unit when you received it.

Did you try it out with a couple of pieces of wire (or spare piece of track) and a known good loco, before connecting to your layout to prove it was ok out of the box.

Or did you connect it directly to your layout first and have it fail immediately.

 

If the former then it does seem that PIKO have a quality control problem and they need to sort it out.

If the latter then the problem could still be something on your layout, or as you say you are extremely unlucky.

 

Martin. 

[NickC]

​Martin when I received the second SmartBox I powered it up with no connector and, using the SmartBox app on the SmartController, I checked that it was configured to 2000ma to match the power supply. I then programmed in a single loco and all during that time the SmartBox behaved itself. I then ran my layout using my original Hornby eLink for about 90 minutes to check that all was OK with the layout. My layout is 18" wide and runs around the 4 walls of a 2.8m square room, so its not huge. I have a maximum of 7 locos on the track and up to 3 can be running at once which is what I was successfully doing with the eLink. I then powered down the eLink and completely disconnected it and in its place connected the SmartBox thus guaranteeing that the only power to the layout was from the SmartBox. I then started to run the single loco that I had programmed, with the 6 other locos stationary in their sidings, and after 15 minutes it stopped and the Track Power LED started to fast blink again. After that it was game-over with the SmartBox even after disconnecting it from the track, waiting 30 mins and re-powering whilst still disconnected from the track. I then re-installed the Hornby eLink and everything works without issue.  I must admit, If it wasn't for the fact the layout still runs without issue with the eLink, and indeed I have running it for 2 hours continuously today, I would have wondered about the layout. My locos are all Hornby or Bachmann and the oldest is 4 years old and they use a mixture of Lenz, TCS and DCC Concepts decoders. The points are controlled using DCC concepts IP digital motors or ADS-2fx solenoid units driving Peco PL-11 point motors., so nothing strange there. 

It all a bit of a shame because I liked the SmartController and want to move away from the eLink to something with a physical knob for throttle control instead of a screen based slider. I simply can't see what layout-wise could cause the SmartBox to permanently fail (unless I suppose one was pushing power back into the SmartBox output, which I definitely wasn't). There shouldn't be anything else that could destroy the output stage would there? 

Nick