Martingchapman Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I want to run a 1940's era GWR Mixed Passenger train on my layout but wondering what coach would be appropriate. Would welcome any suggestions as to a suitable coach type for this class of train. Especially if the coach in question is available RTR (00 Gauge) either new or second hand as I am not up to kit or scratch building. Thanks in advance for any help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2015 How about an auto coach or maybe B set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Mainline or branch........., there's plenty to chose from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2015 Mainline or branch........., there's plenty to chose from? I doubt if there were many (any?) mixed trains on GWR mainlines by then - far too many restrictions on running them on mainlines to make them a practical proposition. And of course they only ran on branches where they were authorised - which I don't think was a vast number judging from past scans through service timetables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The Brixham branch still had fish trucks attached to the branch passenger (14xx + Autocoach) in the '50s. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2015 The Brixham branch still had fish trucks attached to the branch passenger (14xx + Autocoach) in the '50s. Adrian But that doesn't make it a Mixed Train - they were simply Tail Traffic. (And on that note I remember travelling up from Kingswear on a heavily loaded dmu on a Bank Holiday Monday c.1969 and we duly shunted at Churston to attach a loaded Conflat with an insulated container which might well have been fish traffic from Brixham - the branch having closed by then.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martingchapman Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I model a rural branch line. I only want to have one coach in the mixed train. Would it be ok to run a single coach from a B Set as these seem to be the only 00 Gauge RTR non corridor GWR Liveried coaches on the market? Already have a 14XX plus Autocoach which is the main passenger service so want to run a mixed train as something different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 What about a BCK running down the branch as a through coach from a mainline express? The Bachmann Collett BCK would be right up your street in this regard! You could mix in some cattle vans, horseboxes, siphons, fruit D's, and milk tank traffic as well, as all these were passenger rated stock that could run at passenger speeds with your through coach. CoY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Don't Hornby periodically re-release the old Triang clerestories and their spiritual heirs? The brake end would be perfect for a secondary service on an out of the way branch I would have thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks for the replies. I model a rural branch line. I only want to have one coach in the mixed train. Would it be ok to run a single coach from a B Set as these seem to be the only 00 Gauge RTR non corridor GWR Liveried coaches on the market? Already have a 14XX plus Autocoach which is the main passenger service so want to run a mixed train as something different. Half a B Set wouldn't work as they were kept in coupled pairs. As others have suggested you need a coach with a brake/Guard's compartment and two suitable vehicles have been suggested in posts 8 & 9. However there is nothing to stop you using the 14XX & autocoach on a Mixed Train - this happened in real life (e.g on the Wallingford branch where at one time all trains were authorised to run as Mixed Trains) and you can keep the autooach coupled to the engine while shunting as that was permitted in the GWR Instructions (and happened, e.g. at Wallingford). So now you have two potential formations for a Mixed Train - and don't forget that you also need a freight brakevan on the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2015 Apart from the extra mixed train, you could perhaps spice up your existing 14xx and autocoach service as per this photo on the N gauge forum (scroll down a bit): http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=21453.0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2015 We seem to be getting a number of posts about tail traffic but not so many addressing the OP - which was about a Mixed Train. So I'll recap from several previous posts (well they were a while ago). A Mixed Train conveyed a mixture of passenger stock (next to the engine - although there were instances of that legal requirement being ignored on at least one light railway) and then behind the passenger stock came the freight stock, basically anything. then at the rear came a freight brake van. As an aside the last one I travelled on - back in 1971 - consisted of passenger stock, then a 16T Mineral wagon, then a 45 T Class A tank car, another couple of wagons and then the brakevan. Tail traffic is non-passenger carrying vehicles attached to either the front or rear of a passenger train and should be either Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock - e.g a Syphon or a milk tank, or a horsebox - a wagon branded XP (after the late 1930s) which means (or should mean) it has an automatic brake and a wheelbase of certain minimum length. Trains conveying tail traffic on the rear do not have a freight brakevan on the back, Mixed Trains do. Most passenger trains were permitted to convey tail traffic of some sort or another although often subject to it being vehicles of a certain wheelbase or not 4 or 6 wheeled. Mixed Trains were subject to a number of special regulations which limited the number of vehicles they could convey (maximum 30 of all descriptions); specified the number of freight brakevans in relation to the number of wagons depending on the tare weight of the van; restricted the number which may be operated on any line in relation to the permitted, and in one case average, speed on that line. The latter restrictions meant that effectively Mixed Trains were not permitted on many mainline routes - but of course tail traffic was, it was allowed almost everywhere subject only to the load limits on any particular train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 One possibility for the 1940s era would be a pair of 4-wheel carriages made up from Ratio kits, probably a brake-third and a third. The Tanat Valley line, which was one of the few branches with mixed train working, was still using 4-wheel carriages at that period. I am, though, slightly puzzled by your reference to 1940s era. The first half of the 1940s fell during World War II, then came post-war austerity and then nationalisation. Any part of the 1940s could make an attractive, albeit somewhat different, model but those three sub-eras would have had subtle differences between them, the content of poster displays being an obvious one. A wartime model, for example, would almost certainly have to incorporate some signs of ARP activity, which wouldn't have totally have disappeared from the scene even by the end of the 1940s. The pre-war paint schemes on private owner wagons would have become less and less pristine as the decade wore, replaced to some extent by the small ownership details painted in the left hand corner of each side, and then, eventually, by a BR P-suffix number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepen Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The mid day train to Cardigan was described as mixed. There is a film of it arriving in the BBC Railway Roundabout from 1958. There is a copy on youtube. The train is a 45xx, box van and coach. GWJournal No 30 (1999) had more details on the working of the branch. It suggested that the long journey from Whitland meant that mainline coaches with lavatories were preferred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The Princetown branch ran mixed trains with a Toplight brake third (or brake compo?) right up tp closure in the early 50's. The Culm Valley ran mixed trains as well as tail traffic in the form of milk tanks from the dairy at Hemyock. In the late 40's the coach was normally an old clerestory brake third, later replaced by an ex Barry Rly brake 3rd. Hope this helps. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2015 The mid day train to Cardigan was described as mixed. There is a film of it arriving in the BBC Railway Roundabout from 1958. There is a copy on youtube. The train is a 45xx, box van and coach. GWJournal No 30 (1999) had more details on the working of the branch. It suggested that the long journey from Whitland meant that mainline coaches with lavatories were preferred. A number of the passenger trains on the Cardigan branch, in both directions, were authorised to run as Mixed Trains (and timed accordingly) but the fact that they were authorised to run as Mixed didn't mean that they had to. On another GWR branch every passenger train was authorised to run as Mixed - but of course in reality they didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The Princetown branch ran mixed trains with a Toplight brake third (or brake compo?) right up tp closure in the early 50's. The Culm Valley ran mixed trains as well as tail traffic in the form of milk tanks from the dairy at Hemyock. In the late 40's the coach was normally an old clerestory brake third, later replaced by an ex Barry Rly brake 3rd. Hope this helps. Ray. I read recently that the Hemyock branch used a gas-lit carriage because the speed wasn't fast enough for a dynamo to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 A number of the passenger trains on the Cardigan branch, in both directions, were authorised to run as Mixed Trains (and timed accordingly) but the fact that they were authorised to run as Mixed didn't mean that they had to. On another GWR branch every passenger train was authorised to run as Mixed - but of course in reality they didn't. I seem to remember seeing a photo of the Presteign branch train – another line with a number of scheduled mixed trains – which consisted of a couple of 4-wheeled coaches and a goods brake van. Obviously no goods traffic on offer from the terminus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2015 I seem to remember seeing a photo of the Presteign branch train – another line with a number of scheduled mixed trains – which consisted of a couple of 4-wheeled coaches and a goods brake van. Obviously no goods traffic on offer from the terminus. There are photos of this on page 69-70 of "GW branchlines: A pictorial survey" by C.W. Judge, which include a 517 class loco hauling a "Toad" goods brakevan and two 4-wheelers (Composite and Brake Third) on the Presteign branch in 1906. It seems to have been a regular sight on that line for several years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I read recently that the Hemyock branch used a gas-lit carriage because the speed wasn't fast enough for a dynamo to work. BUT, it was either in this, or another thread someone said that the coaches were taken for a run on the mainline once a week (I think) to charge the batteries. Seems there is a bit of conflicting info about! FWIW my understanding was the same as Mikes' Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 BUT, it was either in this, or another thread someone said that the coaches were taken for a run on the mainline once a week (I think) to charge the batteries. Seems there is a bit of conflicting info about! FWIW my understanding was the same as Mikes' Khris November 2014 edition of Back Track captioned a picture of the train at Culmstock; "a couple of ex-Barry Railway gaslit coaches .... the last vehicles on BR illuminated by gas when the service ended in 1963" A letter in the January edition corrected this' "from October 1962 they were replaced by two BR built Thompson design short frame non-corridor brake seconds .... the spare vehicle each week in turn was worked empty to Exeter (or maybe Paington) to recharge the batteries. So an interesting item of rolling stock on an ex-GWR branch. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Yep, that sounds like what I had read. Knew I read it somewhere Old age is catching up with me at a rapid pace, I am afraid to say, especially when I need to ask the wife where I have put things in my hobby room Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martingchapman Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. What a knowledgeable and generous lot you are. I am not into the finer detail of the period and what actual stock would/would not have run, my railway is more an "impression" of a GWR Branch line in the late period before BR days. So applying "Rule 1" but following all the great advice above I am intending to use one of the new Hornby GWR Clerestory Brake Coaches (R4670) due out later this year. From the pre-release photos this looks to be an interesting model which will prove a nice contrast with the Autocoach. Thanks again everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted March 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2015 What's people's view on the new Clerestory? Looks very much like the old ones, but still quite nice.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There's an awful lot of luggage space for a branch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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