When were Class 42 Warships last used on the Waterloo - Exeters

[TravisM]

Does anyone know when the Class 42 Warships were last diagrammed to work the Waterloo - Exeter services and what the last members were?

 

Julian Sprott

[Steve T]

Does anyone know when the Class 42 Warships were last diagrammed to work the Waterloo - Exeter services and what the last members were?

 

Julian Sprott

Sunday 3rd October 71. Did see some gen once what worked on the last day but can't remember where. Seem to recall some of those used that day never worked again.

 

EDIT: Following a quick search the following gen was found elsewhere on the site - last up train D823 1O18 1820 Exeter SD - Waterloo, light to OC then withdrawn; last down train D822 1V19 19:08 Waterloo - Exeter SD, then ECS to NA for withdrawal.

[TravisM]

So 822 and 823 were effectively just "switched off"?

 

Julian Sprott

[br2975]

Following the 'great hydraulic cull of 1971" 822 gravitated to Bristol where it was stored with a large number of other victims.

.

From my notebook:-

 

Saturday, 23rd. October 1971
Bristol, St. Phillips Marsh / Marsh Jct..
808, 815, 819, 822, 831, 833, 843, 844, 845, 854, 855, 857, 858, 865, 868, 869,
6310, 6315, 6320, 6319, 6322, 6323, 6327, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6334, 6337, 6339, 6340, 6348, 6354,

(51070+59429+51098), (55033), (59447),
Railair Parcels set:- (51137+86???+86???+51150)

 

Brian R

[Steve T]

So 822 and 823 were effectively just "switched off"?

 

Julian Sprott

Yes.

 

Forty-six hydraulics were withdrawn that day, the vast majority of which were in full working order.

['CHARD]

Oh this thread just became the most important focus of my attention.

 

'Just switched off' is a grave concept. I knew the date of course, but had no idea locos worked a class 1 turn straight into the history books.

 

I assumed the majority had been inoperative for weeks or months and the withdrawal date was admin catching up.

 

This is far more poignant and worthy of close scrutiny.

[Rugd1022]

As sad as it sounds Chard a great number of Hydraulics were just switched off on or just before the day they were withdrawn. Some were already on borrowed time though, restricted to local workings only whilst awaiting exchange components but soldiering on on meagre parcels and freight trips etc.

 

When 821 was withdrawn at the end of '72 it was in very good nick - good enough to move from the Sou' West to Didcot under its own power in May '73 when it was delivered into private hands. Several Westerns were used to tow redundant classmates to Swindon only to be switched off and withdrawn themselves once they'd backed into the Con Yard. In Decemebr '67 all five D6xx's were withdrawn having all been driven onto the dump road at Laira and switched off - D602 had worked a class 1 service the day before! When the final four Class 22s were withdrawn on New Year's Day 1972, it didn't stop two of them being used around Exeter the following day, while the other two were sat idling on the shed to drain what was left of their fuel. In a few cases though some locos were still in use after their 'official' withdrawal dates, D1013 was spotted shunting round Newton Abbot two days after being paired with D1023 on the Western Tribute tour of 26/2/77.

 

(OT alert... similar things happened much later on too - when Rugby man Roger Gilbert (RIP) took 58 047 from Bescot and brought it to Rugby to work the Bletchley & Forders tripper the phones were red hot..... it had been withdrawn the previous week and someone had to take it back to Bescot during the following night ).

[jonny777]

This is the saddest thread that I have read for a long time.

 

The thought of perfectly serviceable hydraulics being just switched off and then withdrawn makes me want to get cosy with a bottle of single malt, especially when the amount of taxpayers' money invested in them is taken into account.

 

And I'm sure that I remember through 1973/4 there were continual moans from BR of a loco shortage on summer weekends.

['CHARD]

This is the saddest thread that I have read for a long time.

 

I very nearly sent an identical message instead of my previous post.  Absolutely spot on, you've nailed my emotion on this completely.

 

Yet again, pride and dogma prevailing over common sense.  Sadly familiar isn't it.

[Rivercider]

Slightly o/t as they are class 43s, but here are two Warships D853 and D851? being towed to Swindon in October 1971 both having been withdrawn that month 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/9734513230/in/photolist-fQcVD1-e4Mbqg-dWNnJM-5KVpwr-rpu8oG-awo4qa-a2r3t2-kdThjn-aKWkgc-UneFN-maowu2-eMNndg-ftTcqo-eXASFy-e6qyn8-qnnLz2-jbh3kS-pnnLe7-hL3u2k-fiCquv-bzcnQQ-9ThtwR-FusaU-p2ExHY-g7ARbs-jX8his-qGXtph-aeVjh3-9VL8Jq-pLCoGx-b3QWvg-aPhd1p-dm33Gb-b8kKya-adujt9-p5V7mY-5WQhZ1-4Y9NHd-jnBf7F-idXCTB-fQcVNo-d4tUnC-cHTyLG-axHS2p-asA23L-i5q8aZ-fQGmPa-9nFavr-g7AQGS-dKiuag

 

cheers

[TravisM]

Nothing new in BR withdrawing or switching off perfectly usable loco's.  Opening a hornet's nest here but a lot of steam loco's just had the fires dropped and headed for the storage line.

 

Julian Sprott

[Enterprisingwestern]

They were still scattered about the region 6 months later.

From one of my notebooks.

29/4/72.

Bath Road.

807.

Newton Abbott.

819. See Brian R's post above.

803.

866.

816.

Taunton.

806.

 

5/5/72.

Marsh Junction.

6319.

867.

815.

7008.

7047.

7051.

7067.

7012.

Bath Road.

818.

 

Mike.

[jonny777]

Nothing new in BR withdrawing or switching off perfectly usable loco's.  Opening a hornet's nest here but a lot of steam loco's just had the fires dropped and headed for the storage line.

 

Julian Sprott

 

 

No, but that does not excuse the procedure, especially from a "sheer waste of taxpayers money" point of view.

 

In fact, in the steam era it was far worse. There are photos of shiny "ex-works" steam locos sitting on the scrap lines of certain East Midlands depots.

 

 

When spending other peoples' money rather than their own, the managers tended to adopt a much more relaxed attitude to waste.

[br2975]

Nothing new in BR withdrawing or switching off perfectly usable loco's.  Opening a hornet's nest here but a lot of steam loco's just had the fires dropped and headed for the storage line.

 

Julian Sprott

Some didn't even have the fires dropped - circa 1965, some withdrawn SR Moguls were steamed one last time, to haul their compatriots to South Wales for scrap.

.

I believe there's a photo of one at Cardiff East Dock in Denis Dunstone's book on Alan Jarvis.

.

Brian R

[br2975]

Following on from Jonny777#s post above......

 

Saturday 4th. March 1972
.
Hydraulics only
.
Cardiff General – Bristol Temple Meads
Cardiff
1041,
7039 (hauled by, Cardiff-Portsmouth ?)
86B Ebbw Jct.
7011/85,
East Usk
7090
Severn Tunnel Jct.
1043/47,
Bristol
818, 7007 (3E08),7068 (4010)
Marsh Jct.
D815/31/67/69, 6308/19/28/30/34/37/48, 7003/08/12/21/25/40/41/43/47/51/56/57/65/67/78
6328 had both 81A & 82A stencils, 6330 had 83A stencil, 831 had 84A stencil.
Bristol Temple Meads / Bath Road
1012/21/30/48/62,7019 (4010/6B07),7031 (1V23),7038,
Bristol T.M. – Cardiff General
Severn Tunnel Jct.
1060, 7023/80
East Usk
7091+7100,
Bewteen Newport & Cardiff
1027
86A Canton
7093

[br2975]

Another extract from my spotting notes, a bunk around Canton

.

Saturday 22nd. January, 1972.

.

86A Canton

24, 129, 1588/94/97, 1609, 1729/30/40, 1859, 1906/16/24

3256/59/68, 3421/24, 3756, 3960, 4176, 5182, 7511

6878/82, 6923

7022/91/93/94/95

'Taff Vale' sidings alongside Ninian Park Halt.

6896, 6907/08/13/17/22/39/48/76/81/85/86 all stored due to NUM dispute

7060/64/70/73/83/86/88 withdrawn

[jonny777]

Yes.

 

Forty-six hydraulics were withdrawn that day, the vast majority of which were in full working order.

 

 

Thirty one Hymeks are listed as withdrawn in January 1972.

 

What a sad end to members of a class that were ideal for cross country services, i.e. Cardiff - Portsmouth, Cardiff - Crewe,  Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth

 

And yet, eight years later Cardiff - Crewe services were still in the incapable hands of class 25s, struggling up the Welsh Marches gradients even with just 5 coaches (as I remember from experience).

[br2975]

And yet, eight years later Cardiff - Crewe services were still in the incapable hands of class 25s, struggling up the Welsh Marches gradients even with just 5 coaches (as I remember from experience).

Ah ! Yes - but at least those incapable hands belonged to a 'standard' loco (Class 25) on the North & West, or an equally incapable 'standard' loco (Cl.31) on the Cardiff-Bristol-Pompey turns , whereas a 'non-standard' Hymek would have walked away with such a load.

.

Perhaps Marylebone Road felt it was time to wreak its revenge upon the ( Great ) Western Region ?

Such were some of the inexplicable decisions of certain nationalised industries of the time.

[TravisM]

I heard from a friend who's father worked for the Treasury in the late 60's and he was on the financing committee for British Rail.  He recalls a huge argument at BR headquarters about the withdrawing of the Hydraulics and the money spent, given the financial waste that nearly new steam loco's were sent for scrap after a few years service and the Class 17 saga.

 

Western Region managers really wanted to hang onto the Hymeks and Westerns, at the expense of the NBL's and Swindon Warships until the HST's were in full service, and certainly didn't want the Class 50's as they saw them as more problematic and expensive to run than the Westerns.  They also felt the Hymeks were far better built and ran better than Class 25's and to a certain extent, Class 37's.  

 

HQ's response was that Beyer-Peacock was out of business and that all the hydraulics were reliant on German imports, which hamstrung them, and that was the argument that swung it.

 

I suppose the WR nearly got what they wanted as the HST fleet was nearly complete by 1980, so they would have been extended by 3-5 more years, who know's for the Hymek's

 

Julian Sprott

[Clagsniffer]

If the locos were in workable condition why did BR not just keep the locos running until they packed in and then scrap them? Why withdraw perfectly usable and capable machines?

 

I understand that they wanted standard (well I don't understand actually, but that's what they said), but why not just run them to destruction then get rid of them?

[TravisM]

Money, the value of scrap in the early 70's was fairly high.

 

Julian Sprott

[Bert Cheese]

When 821 was withdrawn at the end of '72 it was in very good nick.

Greyhound had received works attention fairly late in its service life, including repairs to fire damage at one end, evidence of which was discovered when the DTG rewired under the control desk at one end not so long ago, so I'd imagine it was released from works with everything in fine fettle.

 

The fire damage concerned was most likely that suffered while my late father was driving it, apparently a rather severe fire occurred under the leading cab while in a cutting (somewhere near Woking IIRC) which he and his secondman were unable to extinguish, the fire brigade had to attend while the crew "climbed up the bank and watched the bloody thing burn!"

He was surprised when the loco was subsequently repaired and became something of a favourite, being used on royal train duties on at least one occasion.

[Rugd1022]

Fascinating stuff there Bert - historical details like that are what make these threads!

 

(By the way, is there any chance I could have a large size copy of your lovely avatar pic please...? I could do with a new screen saver...!)

 

Cheers

[Phil Bullock]

Thirty one Hymeks are listed as withdrawn in January 1972.

 

What a sad end to members of a class that were ideal for cross country services, i.e. Cardiff - Portsmouth, Cardiff - Crewe,  Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth

 

And yet, eight years later Cardiff - Crewe services were still in the incapable hands of class 25s, struggling up the Welsh Marches gradients even with just 5 coaches (as I remember from experience).

Wow never knew Hymeks worked Shrewsbury - Aber! 37s certainly did in the early 60s and Hymeks worked Carmarthen to Aber

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[Fat Controller]

Wow never knew Hymeks worked Shrewsbury - Aber! 37s certainly did in the early 60s and Hymeks worked Carmarthen to Aber

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

I've never seen anything about 'Meks working from Salop to Aber; I suspect the LMR wouldn't have used them, preferring to use a pair of Class 24, then 25s. Likewise, I've not heard of them being rostered for the North and West; I thought the sequence there was DMUs, then 25s, followed by 33s. 

They always seemed a bit overspecified for the Carmarthen- Aber trains; I don't recollect seeing any photos of more than three coaches and a van on it diesel days.