Elsbridge Tramway Company: Elsbridge Town - NeilHB's layout

[Hesperus]

I've completely missed this topic before but love what you're doing. The coaches look great.

 

So my next question is...suitable plans for an 0-4-0 Manning Wardle of an appropriate 1870s-ish vintage - anybody know of any suitable please?

I have that issue of RM here if you still need a copy.

[NeilHB]

Thanks for the offer Hesperus - that would be great thanks!

 

Managed to do a bit more work on the stock for the layout - did anyone order a pot of coffee...?

Very much a work in progress, but say hello to Tidmouth, Knapford and Elsbridge Light Railway coffee pot number 1. Slaters MW 2'8" wheels, Premier Components side rods and plenty of plastic strip. There's a long way to go yet and then a further 3 to build.

 

Wellsworth and Suddery Railway No.3 'Crosby' is now finished (bar a bit of touching up here and there and some proper transfers for the name and number) and ready for a hopeful spin tomorrow at the Mickleover Model Railway Group show.

If you see me at the show come and say hello!

Edited October 2, 2015 by NeilHB

[Mike Bellamy]

. . . . . ready for a hopeful spin tomorrow at the Mickleover Model Railway Group show.

 

If you see me at the show come and say hello!

Looking at the amount of stock they have put out, you'll find it difficult to get even a small space for a Terrier - the layout seemed full to overflowing . . . lots of the Green Scene - running both late steam and early diesel.

 

 

 

.

[NeilHB]

Looking at the amount of stock they have put out, you'll find it difficult to get even a small space for a Terrier - the layout seemed full to overflowing . . . lots of the Green Scene - running both late steam and early diesel..

Sounds like they need a bit more colour variation to me...! Will bring it along anyway and will keep my fingers crossed!

 

See you later!

[hartleymartin]

The layout must be early days before the acquisition of No. 5 "James." Can't imagine that Sir Topham Hatt would be keen on wooden brake blocks after the incident landing his new moxed traffic locomotive in a cow field!

[NeilHB]

You are right Martin - it is very early days before the North Western Railway was formed. I will admit that I have three distinct operating periods in mind for the layout:

 

1) 1906-1910 - layout operated solely by the 4 coffee pot locomotives, tramway passenger coaches plus the dumb buffered goods stock

 

2) 1912-1920 - layout operated by the coffee pots and the 4 Wellsworth & Suddery Railway locos, plus stock from the W&S.

 

3) 1920-1925 - layout operated by the coffee pots plus the addition of North Western Railway No.1...post 1925 is when the extension to Ffarquhar opened to the layout of Elsbridge would have changed significantly to allow through running to Ffarquhar and the quarry at Anopha.

 

I will admit that I am hoping that Dapol sells certain parts of the Terriers separately as I would like to change the wooden brakes for the cast iron versions - much more suitable!

[WD0-6-0]

I reckon the Quarry Tramway would make an excellent model. A stretch just outside of Ffarqauar station passing along the streets of Ffarquar, limited in stock that could be used though. I suppose Coffee Pots up to the arrival of NWR No.6 when that and No.1 could take over until No.7 arrived to operate it exclusively and later with the Quarry Drewry.

When operating in the later half of period 2 and through 3 you could arguably justify NWR No.2 and in period 3 occasionally NWR No.5

[NeilHB]

I agree with you Rhys - at some point in the future I want to make a model of the tram road - I just need a lot more space than I have now in order to do justice the sinuous nature of the route - I envisaged wide baseboards with sweeping curves on a steep gradient. I'd originally planned an N gauge model of the tram road before deciding that N gauge wouldn't work as I couldn't model the coffee pots! i thought the best bit to model would be the stretch up near the crossroads effectively where the lines doubles back on itself - this way you could get away with having the fiddle yards for each end at the same end of the layout, plus an excuse for lots of wild, moorland scenery.

Motive power wise - No.1 and the coffee pots until the arrival of No.7 (Awdry states the coffee pots where scrapped when No.7 arrived, but in my slightly altered Sodor-verse, the best parts of the two remaining coffee pots were combined into one and sold to the Ffarquhar Quarry Company as their dedicated shunter, which survived in service until the arrival of the Drewry shunter in the early 70's...)

Agree re the use of No.2 in periods 2 and 3, plus No.5 in the later part of period 3, but the question the becomes - what livery? Original black, or post accident red?! Or one chassis, and two differently painted bodies to cover both periods?

[WD0-6-0]

Is oo your answer here, more layout in the space and big enough for the coffee pots?

I love the idea of rolling moorland but personally prefer the idea of the tramway running on the road from the station to the outskirts of the town, next to the road and past the shops. We both know what must be included by a certain crossing by the quarry… there must be a constable

That makes sense, the coffee post would have been the best part of 80 years old by then at least. It would make sense for the quarry to borrow/buy a coffee pot to handle the shunting, No.7 couldn't be expected to tackle its own timetable and shunting for a third party.

As No.5 arrived in late 24/early 25 I think it would be original Lanky Yorky black and with the original tender, No.5 didn't receive its Fowler tender until after the accident, it received the red livery at the same time. If you chose two different bodies on one chassis you'd need (assuming your Sodor-verse follows the above, if it doesn't then ignore this) two tenders too.

I've just painted a Bachmann STD 4 2-6-4T into NWR Blue with Late crest, I haven't decided on whether it should carry an S prefixed short NWR number or its 8xxxx number yet. Also I haven't lined the tanks but it suits the class well, I can imagine the shrewd Topham-Hatt would have had several STDs transferred before they were withdrawn.

Still trying to make up my mind between blue or black wheels, heading towards black.

[NeilHB]

I thought about 00 but I want to attempt (or rather I've been persuaded to attempt!) working valve gear for the coffee pots and I can't see myself managing that in 00 - plus I really like the chunkiness of 0 gauge. Besides, I've got no 00 left now!

Definitely needs to be a constable - shoe in one hand notebook in the other? I like the idea of the tram road running through the town - it would probably make a good micro layout, or a series of small scenes arranged on a roundy roundy layout perhaps? Even a circular layout of scenes would work...note to self must NOT start planning another layout...

Hurrah, glad someone else agrees with my idea - thanks!

That was my thought re the livery, must state that I do love the crimson red livery though so I think two different bodies are a must; at least the red livery has black wheels which makes it easier. The tender could also be two different bodies on a common chassis - one L&Y and one Fowler style.

Ooh that sounds good - pictures please! The NWR purist in me says short NWR number please - after all the different regions had different numbering styles and as STH I was ex Swindon I think follow GWR practice and be different. After all the NWR did become the North Western Region of BR so needs a separate numbering scheme I think.

Agree re transfer of standard locos before the end of steam, plus a few of the BR built pre nationalisation designs too for good measure.

What's your opinion on NWR lettering on the locomotives? I know it never appeared in the books but I think in real life it might have made an appearance, or rather variations of it may have appeared overs the years.

[WD0-6-0]

Ahh I'm looking forward to seeing that, it sounds great. Another advantage of O of course is you can share stock between Elsbridge and any potential future layouts.

Definitely, shoe, notebook and red in the face. Even better if you can get regular law breaker on the notebook

I'm contemplating using the baseboards I've got to do the tramway but I have so many other plans and not suitable stock so I may resist at the moment.

I'm looking forward to modelling No.5 myself, Crimson red with S5 on the cab side and early crest on the tender.

I think I mentioned it before but I think being an island it should have a scheme like the isle of white, an S prefix (for Sodor of course)

I'll post some photos in a moment. I reckon a couple of std 4 tanks and a couple of std 4 4-6-0s. I think a 9F for banking Gordon's Hill and maybe one or two others. I do quite like the idea of an extra BR built castle, I know most people say it would be "Sodor Castle" but that's not specific enough for me, I think it should be named after the actual castle (I can't remember where that is now) Cronk Castle sounds good but I don't believe there is a castle there.

The Lettering is a must, my model of No.1 will have the lettering, I've seen several plausible variations looking online, some with "North Western" in a very smart font and others simply "NWR" I think both can be used period dependant. One I hate is this "sodor rail" it really grinds me.

[WD0-6-0]

[WD0-6-0]

I know the livery was blue wheels but I think the wheels on a std loco should be black, they would have to conform to BR a little even if they had extra freedom compared to the other regions.

Also, I'm not sure how to apply the red lining to the tanks, my painting isn't that neat and I don't know if any transfers even come close

Ooh my 400th post

Edited October 4, 2015 by WD0-6-0

[NeilHB]

Thanks - I just hope I can make it work. The trick is getting it all to move as it should do. Aye, that's the plan. All future layouts are planned to follow the same theme or variations of it.

Haha - I don't know about regular law breaker that might tax my painting skills, could always print it out I guess?

I didn't really have suitable stock before I started Elsbridge Wharf, I'm just building it up as I go along so no excuse not to model the tramway Rhys! Go on, you know you want to...go on go on go on go on!

Castle wise you've got a couple to choose from - Ulfstead, Suddery and Rolfs Castle for a start. There may be more so I'll have to dig out my copy of Sodor: It's People, History and Places and check.

Looking forward to seeing the photos of No.1 when it's finished.

I'm of the same opinion as you - it's not Sodor Rail it's the North Western Railway!

Love the livery on the standard 4 tank - it looks great! Agree re the black wheels, but the blue wheels do look nice.

[WD0-6-0]

Im looking forward to all that, it's great fun with Sudrian railways, there's enough written history to cover it but with enough wiggle room to have the fun of making some bits up.

If you can include it it'll be great but even in 7mm very hard to see?

Haha, next layout will be Sudrian, if I could afford some Z gauge stuff it would be Arlesburgh Station with the Arlesdale railway, perfect for bachmanns new autocoaches... But it won't be that yet, it would have to be a section of mainline so I can run my Kipper set

I think it was Ulfstead Castle I had in mind, whichever it was I would imagine Sir Tophamm would definitely have that castle transferred to Sodor just prior to its withdrawal. After all a fresh twice the express motive power would allow the stress on No.4 to be reduced.

Haha me too, most of my models will carry the BR crest of some description but some will have the Lettering or a heritage livery of some kind.

I'm tempted to turn one out in a NWR variation of wartime black?

Maybe I'll leave it blue on one side and black on the other? I think black wins but only just. I can't wait to line the tanks, when I work out how.

[NeilHB]

Totally agree - that's probably why it appeals so much!

True but I'll know it's there and hopefully with the vertical cylinders moving it will be sort of noticeable.

Ooh Arlesdale - I like!

Ulfstead Castle would be a good one - in full lined Great Western livery but with North Western on the tender instead?

NWR wartime black sounds like a good option - Number 4 would look grand in black I think?

Blue on one side and black on the other sounds like a good idea - you'll never see both sides at the same time so why not.

Let me know how you get on with the lining, will look forward to seeing photos when it's finished.

[WD0-6-0]

Ahh I was referring to regular law breaker, that'll be hard to see. The working valve gear I'm really looking forward to, I'm sure it'll be visible enough.

It's a shame the Z gauge chassis are so expensive, it'll be fun when I eventually do it though.

Ooh I like that, tempting but I would have thought that with 5741(8) and 14xx(11) (can't remember the GWR number) were given full unedited GWR livery I suspect that the castle would wear the same.

I agree No.4 would look fantastic in black but I don't think I could bear to do it, BR Early crest I think it has to be, I may even turn it out in Royal Train condition. I hope very soon to be building No.6 too.

Yeah I'll leave it like that for now, I like them both.

It'll probably be some time before I get the tanks and bunker lined but when I do I'll keep you up to date, I've sent you a message so as not to hijack your thread too much.

Edited October 4, 2015 by WD0-6-0

[NeilHB]

Oh yes true that will be very difficult to see - a couple of squiggles on the page should be sufficient?!

Thanks, I'm just hoping I can get it to work properly - I think the first coffee pot is very much going to be the guinea pig for the rest of them.

True - 5741 and 1436 are in full GWR so it would make sense for the Castle to match - just an idea though to consider at some point in the future maybe?

No.4 in Royal Train condition sounds very nice - true about the black - can you imagine the reaction - what colour?!

That's fine I don't mind - feel free to hijack away!

[WD0-6-0]

Squiggles would do it, anyone who'd read this would know what they meant.

I can't wait to see the coffee pot, if I do build the tramway I'll need at least one and seeing yours will give me something to work from.

1436 that's the one, I could not remember that. With STH being a Swindon man it definitely would be real GWR livery, although I think the period I intend to model I may leave 1436, 5741 and the castle in BR liveries?

I'm rather looking forward to building No.4, it'll be a challenge that's for sure. The running plate is going to test my skills and patience.

Thank you, I'll keep you up to date with things

[hartleymartin]

I'd like to see what prototype that you are basing your "Coffeepot" locos on. I've always thought that it would be an interesting subject to model, but never figured out where to start with it. Inside cylinder 0-4-0 would make it reasonably easy with the motor and flywheel hidden in the vertical boiler.

Based on this one, perhaps?

[NeilHB]

Rhys true you have a point there. Which period are you modelling - was it 1950s? If so you would be right with the BR liveries, though 5741 never carried BR in the books did he so there is that as a precedent for painting them in GWR!

 

Martin - no fixed prototype as such but more an amalgamation of prototypes - Beamish No.1, Sara & Burgess locos (South Devon Railway 'Tiny'), Fraser & Tinne loco supplied to New Zealand, Alexander Chaplin locos - they are all inside cylinder locos that are fairly rudimentary in design. The motor will definitely be in the boiler, I just need to find a suitable gearbox for 1/8" axles that doesn't cost a fortune first - once that's sorted I can work out the exact position of boiler, cylinders and valve gear etc.

[WD0-6-0]

yeah 1950s-60s ish with a little wiggle room either side. You have a point regarding 5741 and 1436 but in my universe the toffs in London did not grant STH permission to revert to GWR livery until after 1968, if my painting improves then I may go as far as BR Lined Green. I do like the idea of 5741 being a grubby black though.

I know that it is recorded that No.6 is an Avonside loco that's been Swindonised plus all sorts of parts like Hunslet and others. I don't quite agree with that, given the fact that No.6 never worked on the GWR. My model is going to be based on a Peckett with the shorter tank like the W6 special Merlin.

[hartleymartin]

In my mind, coffeepot vertical-boiler locomotives always look like something cobbled together from a steam launch and a coal wagon. Aside from being a railway enthusiast, I would also love to have a small steam launch one day. One day when I've got a job that pays me well enough to have that sort of a hobby.

[hartleymartin]

You may find this article useful:

http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HR-Issue-166-Coffee-Pot-article.pdf

[NeilHB]

Rhys that sounds good - maybe lined black for 5741 as he was station pilot at Tidmouth for a while (this would also tie in with BRs tradition of station pilots carrying very smart liveries - look at Liverpool Street and it's Great Eastern lined blue J69s). Your idea for No.6 sounds good - I shall await with interest.

 

Thanks for the article Martin - much appreciated.