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Andy Y

ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

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It's been mentioned on the n gauge forum that Hattons won't do N gauge commissions. Link to that thread here

 

Could this be an opportunity to start a crowd funding exercise to run along side, so that the initial costs could be shared?

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Diversionary Sunday routes included via Buxton and the former LNWR route to Stockport, rev. and via Northenden. Also, via Chat Moss to Golborne/Winwick and on to Hartford CLC.

 

 

Dave

 

And straight from Altrincham through Sale/Stretford and Manchester Oxford Road. I note that some posts refer to rakes of 11 wagons. There are 18 on this one or is that because the 40's could handle longer trains?

post-9992-0-77819400-1427738965_thumb.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Thanks Mike,

 

Are they recovering the OHLE before the line became a tramway?

(It sure looks like an accident waiting to happen though!)

 

 

Kev.

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Is that a ladder propped against the wire, with the train running past?

 

And the four aspect on the nearest line is amber - is it still running?

 

:O :o

 

It's OK, they got hi viz on so it's all fine :scratchhead:

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And straight from Altrincham through Sale/Stretford and Manchester Oxford Road. I note that some posts refer to rakes of 11 wagons. There are 18 on this one or is that because the 40's could handle longer trains?

attachicon.gifBrooklands40042sept1983.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

.....the number of empties could vary and didn't necessarily reflect the number of loads worked outward by the loco. I've not seen a picture of hoppers on this stretch....though it obviously makes sense.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Generally speaking it was as follows for loaded trains

4F and 11 hoppers (or 9 if routed via Romiley and Tiviot Dale)

8F and 16

9F and 18

A single and pairs of Type 2s (28s) upto 19 during May 1963 to March 1964

Single Type 4 (40) upto 16 ditto

Thereafter single Type 2 (25s) upto 18

The Roadstone aggregate services that started in 1968 loaded upto 18 wagons depending on the destination and initially used a pool of ex Mond traffic hoppers and later gained the 13 refurbished and vacuum-braked ex-Summers hoppers.

The Mond (Northwich) traffic generally still loaded upto 18 wagons regardless of traction

Once the refurbished 37/5s came to Buxton trailing loads were gradually increased to 24 wagons right until the end of the hoppers on the mainline in 1997.

 

But don't forget demand and requirements at the Northwich end would dictate the daily number of wagons and rakes and services run along with any diversionary routes especially at weekends.

And has been noted return empties could vary again.

 

So to model a rake of 24 with a pair of 37/5s on the front would take a lot of room and a rather large sized layout. A rake of just over half that would still look very commanding. I have for several years operated rakes of 4mm hoppers and 8 to 10 hoppers usually looks just right.

 

HTH
Cheers Paul

 

Cheers Paul

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In announcement / delivery for smaller suppliers over the last 24 months (or so):

Oxford Rail (all) is 3 / 0

DJModels (00 steam only) is 9 / 1

Heljan (00 steam only) is 5 / 0 (Not counting the Garratt which was delivered about two years ago now, but we can make it 6/1.)

.

But arn't DJ Models and Heljan main suppliers, Oxfordrail is still only a smaller supplier, according to the listings here on RMweb.?? So do we cut them some slack as a result.?

Do I understand delivery is initially scheduled for end 2015, I think that is what I saw on Hattons stand at Ally Pally.

Edited by 250BOB

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SUMMERS

Contacted Hattons who say that presently they are not planning a SUMMERS variant.

On this basis.

Which of the current offerings by Hattons  would be the closest to modify to a SUMMERS  .?

I am thinking of replacing I.C. I   by S U M M E R S .or buying the unlettered version and simply applying decal letters..

Does anyone produce a Summers decal ?

All the "no ICI lettering" are 1992-1997 but would these be OK  with SUMMERS letters applied ?

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Is that a ladder propped against the wire, with the train running past?

 

And the four aspect on the nearest line is amber - is it still running?

 

:O :o

 

It's OK, they got hi viz on so it's all fine :scratchhead:

Looking at the railhead, there hasn't been anything running on the left-hand track for a while. I would imagine the driver of the 40 had been stopped some time before, and advised that there was someone working at a height on the adjacent track.

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SUMMERS

Contacted Hattons who say that presently they are not planning a SUMMERS variant.

On this basis.

Which of the current offerings by Hattons  would be the closest to modify to a SUMMERS  .?

I am thinking of replacing I.C. I   by S U M M E R S .or buying the unlettered version and simply applying decal letters..

Does anyone produce a Summers decal ?

All the "no ICI lettering" are 1992-1997 but would these be OK  with SUMMERS letters applied ?

Hi,

It all depends on how much you are willing to overlook,

The Summers bodies were slightly shorter which affected the angle of the end stanchions (only really noticeable when next to one of the ICI hoppers), You could also remove the vacuum break gear as the JS wagons (PHO's) didn't have these. 

If Hattons/Oxford Rail have done their homework they will also have done two types of plateframe bogies, to allow for the two forms of bearings.

On the left is the later condition axle box (roller bearing) fitted later in ICI service, on the right is the as built (grease?) axle box suitable for JS wagons.

post-13109-0-69122300-1427914396_thumb.png

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

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But arn't DJ Models and Heljan main suppliers, Oxfordrail is still only a smaller supplier, according to the listings here on RMweb.??

In my mind, so far, there are only two "main" suppliers to 00 British outline model Railways: Hornby and Bachmann Branch-Line. We'll see who will join them.

 

There are a number of established, smaller, 00 RTR suppliers including Heljan, Dapol and RapidoTrains. DJModels and Oxford Rail are new entrants into the market.

 

Certainly Dave Jones is an established person, but his company is new.

 

So do we cut them some slack as a result.?

I was neither giving anyone a hard time nor cutting anyone any slack. Simply stating observable facts. I expect these numbers to change with time. Edited by Ozexpatriate

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But why did the manufacture of Soda Ash and Polythene need such vast quantities of carboniferous limestone?

 

http://www.themeister.co.uk/hindley/chemical_factories.htm

 

https://archaeologyuos.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/discovering-cheshires-industrial-archaeology-part-2/

 

And it seems to have ceased production at Winnington

 

http://www.tatachemicals.com/europe/media_centre/20140203_winnington.html#.VRxMVUpwYps

 

http://vinchad.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/the-end-of-ici-hoppers.html

 

There will be nowt left in this country soon.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

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from the look of the age of the photo it would have been from the time the 1500v system was changed over. a quick search gives the conversion being done in 1971. on another note there's a good few clips you tube of the hoppers in and around the north west

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Looking at the railhead, there hasn't been anything running on the left-hand track for a while. I would imagine the driver of the 40 had been stopped some time before, and advised that there was someone working at a height on the adjacent track.

40 was going at some speed as were all the diesel units replacing the AM4's that day. Health and safety 80's style.

 

Mike Wiltshire

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It was quite common for work to be carried out in the OLE under isolation whilst diesel worked trains ran normally beneath. Everyone knew and understood the arrangements and it generally worked with the minimum of fuss.

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from the look of the age of the photo it would have been from the time the 1500v system was changed over. a quick search gives the conversion being done in 1971. on another note there's a good few clips you tube of the hoppers in and around the north west

If this refers to the class 40 shot, it was taken in 1983 at Brooklands with Tops numbered 40042 between Brooklands and Timperley stations. OHL was 25KV at the time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

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I remember about 6 or 7 years ago spotting a book in a cheap book shop here in Uttoxeter.

It was called "The history of the ICI Hopper wagon", and contains some great pictures.

I put it on the coffee table when I got home, only later to be spotted by my wife.

She looked down at the book, and slowly read out the title......she then looked up at me with that look that says " what the .... ".

It's one of my favourite books, picked it up again today for another read now that some models are on the horizon.

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Thanks Wild Boar for your reply detailing the differences between SUMMERS and ICI wagons.

Does anyone know a decal supplier for the SUMMERS letters.?

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.....might be worth advertising on here for other like minded souls to join you once the model is available and then approaching a decal producer with a reasonable sized order.

 

Dave

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I remember about 6 or 7 years ago spotting a book in a cheap book shop here in Uttoxeter.

It was called "The history of the ICI Hopper wagon", and contains some great pictures.

I put it on the coffee table when I got home, only later to be spotted by my wife.

She looked down at the book, and slowly read out the title......she then looked up at me with that look that says " what the .... ".

It's one of my favourite books, picked it up again today for another read now that some models are on the horizon.

Ha I like that. As the main author of that book I am glad to see that you are appreciative of the hard work that went into getting that book into print. There were some compromises from the planned book and what got printed namely a reduction in the amount of colour plates as this had to be scaled back due to prohibitive price increases that would have pushed the final book price up beyond the planned £13.95. I am very proud of the book all these years later.

 

As WBM has pointed out there are some differences between the ICI and Summers wagons and if you wished to overlook these and went for the its my layout I'll operate what I like viewpoint then you could just as well use the ICI versions without the letters and repaint into Summers grey and remove the vacuum cylinders and pipework. Remember to use only wagons with plate frame bogies. Commission some transfers and go from there. I have a feeling that a company Black something or other did some 4mm Summers in a rub-down format.

 

But I am uncertain whether Hattons/Oxford Rail have realised how much demand for Summers wagons as well and if they have done their homework then they will suss out the common parts.

 

Cheers Paul

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Ha I like that. As the main author of that book I am glad to see that you are appreciative of the hard work that went into getting that book into print. There were some compromises from the planned book and what got printed namely a reduction in the amount of colour plates as this had to be scaled back due to prohibitive price increases that would have pushed the final book price up beyond the planned £13.95. I am very proud of the book all these years later.

 

As WBM has pointed out there are some differences between the ICI and Summers wagons and if you wished to overlook these and went for the its my layout I'll operate what I like viewpoint then you could just as well use the ICI versions without the letters and repaint into Summers grey and remove the vacuum cylinders and pipework. Remember to use only wagons with plate frame bogies. Commission some transfers and go from there. I have a feeling that a company Black something or other did some 4mm Summers in a rub-down format.

 

But I am uncertain whether Hattons/Oxford Rail have realised how much demand for Summers wagons as well and if they have done their homework then they will suss out the common parts.

 

Cheers Paul

Great book about the hoppers Paul, well done.

I note you also appreciated that look on my wife's face when she saw that I'd bought it.

Can people still get the book anywhere if they are interested.? It's a real goldmine of info on the subject.

Bob

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Hi Bob, thanks for the comments glad you enjoyed it. Granted it is quite a specialised subject and title was in hindsight not quite the one originally intended but came around after a lot of word arranging with the publisher. But the content inside more than made up for that in the end.

As far as I am aware the book is now out of print. I sold my last two copies recently and only have three personal copies left in my own collection.

 

Cheers Paul

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I hadn't read the above comments until now, however based on this announcement I also got out my copy of the 'Illustrated History of the ICI Hopper Wagon' to which my wife asked 'what book are you reading?' - cue strange looks when I told her lol It really a very well researched book and a great read Paul. We used to get a great view of them on the former CLC mainline between Cheadle and Cheadle Heath from the top floor of my former high school (Parrs Wood) hauled by pairs of 20s, 31s, 37s or single 47s at the time 1987 - 1994.

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.....might be worth advertising on here for other like minded souls to join you once the model is available and then approaching a decal producer with a reasonable sized order.

 

Dave

 

I had approached Cambridge Custom Transfers a couple of years back about doing these transfers. He was interested in doing them, but required good detail shots of each piece of writing on the wagons, which i never managed to get hold of. If anyone has any good detail shots then it could be possible if CCT is still interested. 

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