GordonC Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 In my mind, so far, there are only two "main" suppliers to 00 British outline model Railways: Hornby and Bachmann Branch-Line. We'll see who will join them. There are a number of established, smaller, 00 RTR suppliers including Heljan, Dapol and RapidoTrains. DJModels and Oxford Rail are new entrants into the market. Certainly Dave Jones is an established person, but his company is new. I was neither giving anyone a hard time nor cutting anyone any slack. Simply stating observable facts. I expect these numbers to change with time. Heljan have quite a range of locos at least, perhaps not as much rolling stock as Hornby or Bachmann, but they've got to be counted as a 'main' supplier with Classes 14, 15, 16, 17, 23, 26, 27, 28, 33, 35, 47, 52, 58, 86, 128, Lion, DP2, Kestrel, Falcon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Not geographically correct for me but I could be tempted by a set. At £24 I think they would be good value for money - certainly when compared to Bachmann's silly rolling stock prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I had approached Cambridge Custom Transfers a couple of years back about doing these transfers. He was interested in doing them, but required good detail shots of each piece of writing on the wagons, which i never managed to get hold of. If anyone has any good detail shots then it could be possible if CCT is still interested. I have some info on the Summers lettering and details of the smaller script that was used for a private commission for a 7mm etched version of these wagons and this info was used to produce some rather nice looking black transfers for the chap. You could also go on and do the later BSC white lettering for the later livery that some of the wagons gained before the traffic to Shotton ended in 1980. Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monjac Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thanks for that reply Paul which got me thinking. A photo earlier in this thread showed SUMMERS in black lettering but the wagon looks to be white and therefore might be an outshopping set up. Did they use black lettering for a while.? If yes, then I could try using a Crafty computer decal which would get round the problem.. because whilst you cant do white lettering , black is no problem. Can you tell me the name of the font. ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Hi Monjac, the Summers wagons were painted in a light grey livery I don't know the exact shade but not too dissimilar to the shade used on the ICI wagons. The first Summers wagon no. 60 was out shopped with white SUMMERS with JOHN above the middle M and & SONS below the middle M lettering and wagon number along with the repair script information, tare and load markings and NON POOL marking. Whether this was just for photographic purposes at Charles Roberts works I am uncertain. However the second wagon no. 61 came out with black lettering replacing all of the white ones described above. Obviously the black lettering stands out much better than the white. I don't know whether no. 60 was repainted before it left the works to goto Shotton or Bidston to enter traffic. However the next photo taken by Chas Roberts was of wagon 119 and this still had the black lettering but more bold thicker lines making up the letters and they had dropped the JOHN and & SONS above the middle M. A further photo of no. 162 appears to be the same as 119. I have no idea as to the font but if you want some more info on the lettering then send me a PM. Cheers Paul Edited April 14, 2015 by pharrc20 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Roxey Mouldings plan to supply Summers transfers for their kit, it might be worth contacting them if Summers transfers you want. (The Roxey kit, although advertised as a Summers wagon is in fact an ICI wagon. The body is longer and higher on an ICI wagon than on a Summers job). Some prototype detail pics here for them wots interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Currently building an N gauge model of Wallerscote island, Northwich at which the soda ash produced from the process using the limestone was stored before forward distribution by water, rail (with liberal numbers of the Farish covhops) and road. However, if anything justifies a return to 00 gauge this does! I can feel a micro layout representing another part of the ICI empire at Northwich coming on... Of course, N gauge ICI hoppers would be even better but to have them represented RTR in any scale is a great result. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I was finally able to get a copy of Cheona ICI Hopper Wagons book on Friday and it has certainly helped me. Ordered sixteen of the ICI Hoppers as that seems to about right. With me ordering sixteen and the obvious case that twelve of these will need renumbering, is there anywhere you get transfers for these wagons at all? I was down at the SVR two weeks ago on Saturday and once again had a look at the ICI Hoppers the SVR has. Only dawned on me that the grey paintwork that's now emerging on the underneath of 19052 (3252) possibly stems from when it was built in 1938...!! Certainly was built to last it seems...!! Edited July 28, 2015 by Garethp8873 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Currently building an N gauge model of Wallerscote island, Northwich at which the soda ash produced from the process using the limestone was stored before forward distribution by water, rail (with liberal numbers of the Farish covhops) and road. However, if anything justifies a return to 00 gauge this does! I can feel a micro layout representing another part of the ICI empire at Northwich coming on... Of course, N gauge ICI hoppers would be even better but to have them represented RTR in any scale is a great result. Some assorted 16t minerals in ICI livery for Soda Ash would be a good accompaniment for these! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I was finally able to get a copy of Cheona ICI Hopper Wagons book on Friday and it has certainly helped me. Ordered sixteen of the ICI Hoppers as that seems to about right. With me ordering sixteen and the obvious case that twelve of these will need renumbering, is there anywhere you get transfers for these wagons at all? I was down at the SVR two weeks ago on Saturday and once again had a look at the ICI Hoppers the SVR has. Only dawned on me that the grey paintwork that's now emerging on the underneath of 19052 (3252) possibly stems from when it was built in 1938...!! Certainly was built to last it seems...!! I would suggest that as these wagons get close that a nice message to Steve at Railtec transfers would sort that gap out. He is a great chap and very willing to help us out at short notice. If we are talking TOPS panels then relatively quick and simple task once we supply him the accurate information. Contact him here. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008547071662&fref=ts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Appleby Model Engineering did a sheet of transfers for the ICI hoppers and the short-lived resin kit that John produced many years ago. You could try contacting John Talbot to see if he still has any sheets left for sale. It is suitable for renumbering wagons in the late 70s to late 90s with the non-standard plain black with white stencilled letters and numbers plus the AME sheet also includes a few of the rarer plain white version of panels. For steam era wagons it is bit more difficult as there aren't any suitable transfers at present although I tended to use D and E locomotive numerals to number my wagons with. HTH Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 Appleby Model Engineering did a sheet of transfers for the ICI hoppers and the short-lived resin kit that John produced many years ago. You could try contacting John Talbot to see if he still has any sheets left for sale. It is suitable for renumbering wagons in the late 70s to late 90s with the non-standard plain black with white stencilled letters and numbers plus the AME sheet also includes a few of the rarer plain white version of panels. For steam era wagons it is bit more difficult as there aren't any suitable transfers at present although I tended to use D and E locomotive numerals to number my wagons with. HTH Paul I think a couple of likely suspects will be able to help out, they've come good in the past. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Appleby Model Engineering did a sheet of transfers for the ICI hoppers and the short-lived resin kit that John produced many years ago. You could try contacting John Talbot to see if he still has any sheets left for sale. It is suitable for renumbering wagons in the late 70s to late 90s with the non-standard plain black with white stencilled letters and numbers plus the AME sheet also includes a few of the rarer plain white version of panels. For steam era wagons it is bit more difficult as there aren't any suitable transfers at present although I tended to use D and E locomotive numerals to number my wagons with. HTH Paul I was looking to build some of these kits when I was planning an 'oo' gauge layout based on Liverpool Road station at Chester West Junction and went to Winnington sidings in March 1996 whist they were still in service on the ICI limestone traffic flow you will have to excuse the quality as they were taken pre-digital age I never actually purchased any of the kits as further research showed that these ICI hoppers did'nt go as far as Chester but it was known that the John Summers hoppers would have on occasions run through to Dee Marsh on a service train after maintenance. The information that I found out at the time was that they commenced service back in 1935 continued right through to the late 1990's. Haulage from the start was by the then new Stainer 8F based at Northwich CLC shed with trains of 14 to 16 hoppers plus an LNER 20T brake van. The hoppers ran on diamond framed bogies but most of these had been replaced by 1950 and had been re-bogied or built from new on plate framed bogies. These formations changed little during steam days and at the end rakes of 18 hoppers were run behind class 37;s without brake vans. Hope this information and pictures are some use to those who might to thinking of purchasing a rake from Hattons in the future . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Any further news on these wagons? As Oxford seem to be one of the few companies who can/do deliver in a relatively timely fashion?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy h Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 not as yet been checking here every week. not been updated for a few weeks at the moment. https://www.ehattons.com/projectupdates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I was looking to build some of these kits when I was planning an 'oo' gauge layout based on Liverpool Road station at Chester West Junction and went to Winnington sidings in March 1996 whist they were still in service on the ICI limestone traffic flow you will have to excuse the quality as they were taken pre-digital age liverpool road 003 (400x290).jpg liverpool road 004 (400x203).jpg liverpool road 005 (400x254).jpg liverpool road 006 (400x240).jpg liverpool road 007 (278x400).jpg liverpool road 008 (279x400).jpg liverpool road 009 (289x400).jpg I never actually purchased any of the kits as further research showed that these ICI hoppers did'nt go as far as Chester but it was known that the John Summers hoppers would have on occasions run through to Dee Marsh on a service train after maintenance. The information that I found out at the time was that they commenced service back in 1935 continued right through to the late 1990's. Haulage from the start was by the then new Stainer 8F based at Northwich CLC shed with trains of 14 to 16 hoppers plus an LNER 20T brake van. The hoppers ran on diamond framed bogies but most of these had been replaced by 1950 and had been re-bogied or built from new on plate framed bogies. These formations changed little during steam days and at the end rakes of 18 hoppers were run behind class 37;s without brake vans. liverpool road 010 (400x218).jpg Hope this information and pictures are some use to those who might to thinking of purchasing a rake from Hattons in the future . Interior shots here are particularly useful! Weathering them will be fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I asked in the shop last weekend and was told it is at first CAD stage with fine detail to be added and initial production may start 2nd quarter 2016... the chap I spoke to mentioned about Summers wagons but they haven't said they will ever do them. Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Been waiting for these to be made for years, however when they are released what Buxton locos will there be to pull them. Maybe Hattons should consider getting Bachmann to produce a couple of limited edition 37 packs. My personal favourites being 37684 "Peak National Park" & 37688 "Great Rocks" in sub sector construction or maybe 37415 "Mt Etna" & 37416 "Mt Fuji" in intercity mainline livery. I remember seeing all of these locos working at Peak Forest with these wagons as well as RMC, Buxton Lime & Tilcon JGAs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted December 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2015 IIRC, before the 37s they were pulled by single 25's (slow and noisy), occasionally 40s and there was a short lived experiment with pairs of 20s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesfeldian Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 From my Co-Bo World website.... Paul Harrison writes, I have researched the history of the ICI hopper wagons including a short section on the Class 28s; Trials using a pair of Metro-Vick Co-Bos (later class 28) were conducted in May 1963 and they demonstrated superior braking power to the EE Class 40s which were also being assessed as replacement for the 8F steam locomotives. These trials on the 21st - 23rd May used D5711/D5714 in multiple hauling 19 wagons on the third day. The Class 40, thought to be D228 had suffered damage to the wheel tyres and brake linings and hauled a maximum of 16 wagons. Tests with 19 wagons were scheduled for the class 40s but were cancelled due to the damage sustained. Further trials took place in June when D5700 which hauled a 19 wagon test train unaided for four days in a row. Full scale introduction of these locomotives never took place, the final trials taking place in March 1964. The main problem was maintaining sufficient brake-force on the descent to Cheadle Heath despite the Co-Bos having good haulage abilities. The plan was to transfer 8 of the class to Trafford Park shed on a permanent basis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesfeldian Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 As an aside, surely the Hattons wagon renders this project obsolete... ?? http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/project-p.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted December 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2015 Interesting to learn about the Co-bo trials. Maybe I'll get some hoppers to run behind my Heljan Co-bo now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 As an aside, surely the Hattons wagon renders this project obsolete... ?? http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/project-p.php Officially the project is on hold, awaiting further news regarding the forthcoming RTR model. We are currently assessing ways of reducing the kits costs without affecting the quality. Alternatively, if anyone wishes to purchase 100 resin cast hopper bodies feel free to drop me a PM! Regards, Wild Boar Fell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I spoke to Oxford at Warley and they advised me that the delay in their project with Hatton's has been down to trying to obtain the relevant permissions from the owners of the ICI name and trademark and thus this has put the project back. They did have a small poster on the outside of their stand showing the details and the chap said they expected the models to be available in 9-12 months time. The permissions is interesting as I know quite a bit about this as does WBF when he got his permission sorted for his kit. Still some alarm bells ringing for me though about this Hatton's/Oxfordrail project... oh well. Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I was finally able to get a copy of Cheona ICI Hopper Wagons book on Friday and it has certainly helped me. Ordered sixteen of the ICI Hoppers as that seems to about right. With me ordering sixteen and the obvious case that twelve of these will need renumbering, is there anywhere you get transfers for these wagons at all? I was down at the SVR two weeks ago on Saturday and once again had a look at the ICI Hoppers the SVR has. Only dawned on me that the grey paintwork that's now emerging on the underneath of 19052 (3252) possibly stems from when it was built in 1938...!! Certainly was built to last it seems...!! .....one consideration about their construction is the height from which they were loaded with largish clasts of limestone. At Tunstead the impact during loading must have been considerable, therefore the robust construction served its purpose. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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