Andy Y Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Dave Mylett has sent over the latest CAD images for the ICI hopper. There are the first CADs of the ICI hoppers. We are currently reviewing them but they seem to be very good and measure up well against the drawings we have. There are a few things that need adding or changing (a handbrake wheel is missing on one side for instance) but most things are correct. This only shows the final version with the roller bearings and plate frame bogies but we are getting this version correct before we go on to CAD up the earlier pad bearings and diamond frame bogies. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Looks great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Looks on track to me a couple of details to add as they have said and some to check. I'd love to know where they got their drawings from though aside from any done from laser scans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 are there any of these hoppers left to laser scan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolmy Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 There are two in existence on the Severn Valley. They were bought by the Stanier 8F Society. Last time I saw them, they were languishing (un-restored) in the triangle of sidings just South of Bewdley station. they may have been moved recently though, as the Stourport line is now used for track maintenance training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 There are six preserved in total; the two on the SVR nos. 19052 and 19129 preserved in May 1994 and have spent most of their preserved careers in storage so far. The next to be preserved was 19161 (ex-John Summers version), which went to the former Rutland Railway Museum in Cottesmore and was intended to be used in the project to put restored Wisbech & Upwell tramway coach body onto the much modified chassis. This was delivered there in February 1998 and languished there for several years and was later purchased by Andrew Goodman for his collection once the tramway coach body had progressed using another donor chassis. The next two to be preserved went to the Class 20 Locomotive Association in November 1999 and based at Swanwick Junction on the Midland Railway Centre line. These two were first built wagon 19000 and 19036 and both have been received overhauls and repaints into an approximation of the original grey and black livery. The sixth and final wagon to be 19154 another ex-John Summers wagon that was acquired by the NRM and initially stored at York and later transferred to Locomotion Shildon site where it remains today. It is a great pity that the other 6 that used to be stored at Tunstead did not make it into preservation despite some last minute negotiations they were scrapped on site without ceremony or thought. HTH Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Looks on track to me a couple of details to add as they have said and some to check. I'd love to know where they got their drawings from though aside from any done from laser scans! The drawings are easy to find. In my previous life we were given a complete set to produce the wagon for a couple of individuals as a semi-special commission. I've subsequently done a full photo survey and measurements of a couple, but alas to no avail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 There are two in existence on the Severn Valley. They were bought by the Stanier 8F Society. Last time I saw them, they were languishing (un-restored) in the triangle of sidings just South of Bewdley station. they may have been moved recently though, as the Stourport line is now used for track maintenance training. There are six preserved in total; the two on the SVR nos. 19052 and 19129 preserved in May 1994 and have spent most of their preserved careers in storage so far. Both ICI Hoppers are still residing in the 'Bewdley Triangle' malcolm and I imagine this is where they will reside for the near future as well. I'm not aware of any current plans to overhaul either Hoppers. It doesn't help either that isn't really anywhere on the line where the Hoppers can be overhauled. There's more information on 19052 and 19129 on the Stanier Locomotive Society Limited website but it hasn't been updated since 2001... Garethp8873 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 A shame they can't be moved to be with 19000 and 036 at Swanwick Junction and some sort of deal put together between Stanier and Class 20 Societies for their restoration... it would be nice to see them running again even if only the 4 wagons with the 8F or 20s on the front! Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
river ewayon Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Many of the John Summers hoppers were reconditioned for use on the ICI trains after Shotton ceased smelting. Check out the Cheona Publications Book. A real treat! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 That's my cue again lol... yes 13 of the British Steel (ex-Summers) unfitted PHO hoppers were acquired for ICI Mond (ICIM) via BR to replace 13 wagons written off in accidents and derailments and bring the ICIM fleet of wagons back up to 152 wagons. The PHO wagons were given a full overhaul to ICI specs at their Avenue workshops in Northwich located not too far from Winnington and Wallerscote works. These all became PHV wagons with the addition of vacuum-brake equipment to the same design as the ICIM PHVs (query whether these vacuum-brake parts were salvaged from the scrapped wagons or made from new?). The 13 ex-British Steel PHVs were numbered ICIM 19152 - 19164 and were initially put in the ICIM Road-stone pool of wagons to be used on aggregates traffic from Tunstead to the Manchester area road-stone depots at Stockport Portwood, Collyhurst Street near Miles Platting and Dean Lane opposite Newton Heath depot. After Portwood drops closed in late 1986 the service ran to the new terminal at Bredbury further back up the line towards Woodley. After the end of the Road-stone traffic in the early 1990s many of the Road-stone pooled wagons were already in use on the new flow of limestone between Tunstead and the sister ICIM works over at Hindlow. Once the Hindlow traffic went over to air-braked Tiphook KPA bogie hoppers the road-stone wagons including the 13 were stored for a while before joining the main Mond pool of wagons for taking limestone to Northwich for Lostock and Winnington works and in the process replacing original ICIM hoppers that had already succumbed to storage and the scrap man. As for the remainder of the 110 other British Steel PHO wagons a large proportion of the remaining fleet donated their plate-frame bogies to ICI Mond to enable the original diamond frame bogies to be withdrawn and replaced thus standardising the fleet - I reckoned at least 90 pairs of plate-frame bogies were purchased by ICIM to replace the pairs of diamond-frame bogies fitted to the original batch of 84 ICI wagons plus some maintenance spares. These all received BR/Timken roller bearings as per the ICI wagons. I believe the chassis and hopper bodies were scrapped on-site at Shotton unless anyone has information otherwise? So that leaves 20 wagons... 2 of these definitely escaped and made it to BSC Llanwern works. A photo of one of the pair is in the book and Paul Bartlett has some photos on his photo site of the same wagon. As for the remaining wagons.. again best guess is they were just scrapped. So any information on these PHO wagons from 1980 - 1983 and their disposal would be most welcome. You never quite know what might turn up. I am still finding and collecting new photos of the ICI Hopper trains and have turned up some real gems recently... hoppers with double-headed 8Fs for example!? HTH Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hattons Dave Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Hi all, Here's images of the final CADs for the ICI Hoppers. As per our other projects we're keen to hear your thoughts on these before starting to cut metal. CheersDave Edited March 22, 2016 by Hatton's Dave 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spackz Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) They look amazing, get'em built. ;-) Edited March 22, 2016 by spackz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2016 Exactly what Spackz said lol. They look fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffWinter Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 very much looking forward to these hoppers, CADs look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hattons Dave Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Cheers for the comments so far guys! I've got to say I can't wait for these hoppers either - I have fond memories of seeing them snaking through Peak Forest in the mid 1990s although I haven't been given permission to remodel our test-track as a Peak District diorama as of yet.... I'm away for a few days from tomorrow so I might not be able to reply immediately but do please keep your comments coming in as the thread will be read by myself and Dave Mylett as and when we can. If you have any pressing queries or info I'd recommend firing over an email or giving us a call. Cheers,Dave Edited March 22, 2016 by Hatton's Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Looking good! Any chance of a shot looking along the inside of the hopper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2016 Look good, but hope they are not ready for a while as I have an APT to pay for first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard60098 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The final CADs look amazing Dave! Hope they can put in to production now as myself and others are eagerly awaiting these beasts and having a rake behind 2x 37's will be awesome! There my favourite wagon and i'm sure they will sell fast also! Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stuart A Posted March 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2016 If they ever got shrunk down to N gauge, I'd definitely buy a rake.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted March 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2016 I really really really want a rake of these as I remember them well. First with a 25 and then with 20s at Miles Platting in the 70s and 80s. However, resources won't let me have a rake but I do want at least one. Has anyone any examples of one, (or two), of these robust hoppers being by themselves? ie. not in a mono-block rake. Either as a cripple in a siding or in a short mixed goods for example? Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Please don't start cutting any metal just yet... you need to check your research information more carefully as you have got some errors in there that will need correcting ASAP if you are to avoid any egg on your faces big time... For the record I did offer my knowledge of these wagons to Hatton's but they stated they had all the relevant information from an independent source and their own research at the Severn Valley Railway. Paul Hi all, Here's images of the final CADs for the ICI Hoppers. As per our other projects we're keen to hear your thoughts on these before starting to cut metal. 0601_1.jpg 0601_2.jpg 0601_3.jpg 0601_4.jpg 0601_5.jpg 0602_1.jpg 0602_2.jpg 0603_1.jpg 0603_2.jpg 0603_wireframe.jpg CheersDave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Hi SHMD Kev, there was a photo on Flickr that showed a crippled hopper wagon in the bay platform 2 I think at Crewe. Sometime in the 1990s when the offending wagon had been shunted out of a rake that had been diverted to run via Crewe and presumably the Middlewich line. There are only a couple of occasions where they ran with anything less than 3 wagons; the first was just after the New Mills South Jnc. accident in Feb 1980 when the class 25 and the leading undamaged wagon continued onto Northwich as visually observed by a friend of mine in Hazel Grove that same afternoon. Much later in the early 1990s I observed from distance a pair of 37/5s heading back to Tunstead with just 2 wagons in tow. And it was definitely only two as I grabbed the binos to make sure as I followed their progress between the rooftops as they headed along through Hazel Grove. Not sure why only 2 I never did find out. Otherwise there are some examples of pairs or three hoppers behind 8Fs in steam days returning empty in mixed freights or just on their own with the 8F and a brake. HTH Paul I really really really want a rake of these as I remember them well. First with a 25 and then with 20s at Miles Platting in the 70s and 80s. However, resources won't let me have a rake but I do want at least one. Has anyone any examples of one, (or two), of these robust hoppers being by themselves? ie. not in a mono-block rake. Either as a cripple in a siding or in a short mixed goods for example? Kev. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Please don't start cutting any metal just yet... you need to check your research information more carefully as you have got some errors in there that will need correcting ASAP if you are to avoid any egg on your faces big time... For the record I did offer my knowledge of these wagons to Hatton's but they stated they had all the relevant information from an independent source and their own research at the Severn Valley Railway. Paul Just wondering what errors can you see? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted March 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I've noticed the 4th and 5th pictures seem to have the handwheels in different places to the rest. Edited March 28, 2016 by stovepipe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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