Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Mikkel]

A google for "racoon on train" suggests that's it's not unheard of on the New York subway!

 

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

How quickly fortunes can change.

 

 

 

 

 

"Not so cocky now, eh?"

[NHY 581]

Your modelling is head and shoulders above the rest, Mikkel. 

 

As usual. 

 

 

Rob

[Donw]

Superb work on the figures.  I certainly think that people tend to be taller and fatter these days. Oddly this is due to better nutrition and poorer nutrition. Babies and young children get more protein etc to grow taller and as soon as they get control of their own diets spoil it all. I definitely seems to remeber people being a lot slimmer when I was a boy. Probably due to wartime and rationing etc. we weren't so affluent then. 

Eyes definitely are one of the harder things. Creating an impression seems to be the best thing.

 

Don 

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

I assume this is a case of heads I win, tails you lose?

 

You appear to have cut quite low.  Did you cut to the shoulders and then cut the head off or just the head and the rest is an optical illusion?  He is wearing a tie; did you remake that with your filler?

 

Never changed heads.  Turned them around, put new hats on, never a whole head.  Have to find an excuse to do it.

[Mikkel]

Thanks all, it's just a figure of course, but they're like wagon kits - each is a small project of it's own and you get quick results 

 

Don, I wonder if rank and class also plays a role in terms of body shapes on pre-war layouts. I doubt there would be many objections if you represent an Edwardian station master as a portly fellow, while a porter or fireman with a wide  girth might jar with what people expect to see on an Edwardian layout. Whether that expectation is founded on fact is a different matter: All photos of Edwardian station masters I can find just now shows them slim as eels!

 

Chris, you are right I cut the ModelU head of a bit low because the receiving Stadden body had also been cut low. Normally I find this works better because you then keep the neck (and necks are important for a natural look). However in this case it didn't look right even after filing, so I built up the neck with filler instead. I think the tie was partly there originally, and it got "boosted" by the drilling and filler.  You should try changing heads, it's so bracing 

 

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

I’m experimenting with different ways to make setts, flagstones etc for my new layout. I'll be making a road paved with setts, and a partly paved goods yard. I’m not averse to scribing DAS in the time honoured way, but wouldn’t mind a quicker method either! So I had a look at what the diorama and war gaming communities are up to.

 

One idea I picked up is to use recycled paintbrushes for making impressions. I removed the bristles and re-fashioned the heads using pliers and files, to form different sizes of setts.
 

 

 

My new tools were then used to stamp individual setts into DAS clay. This is a test piece.

 

 

 

This turned out to be a very quick method, similar to Chris Nervard’s method for making cobbles - although he uses a ballpoint pen. On closer inspection the result doesn’t quite match the flat well-worn setts I’m after, but maybe a lighter pressure with the tool would help.

 

 

 

However it seems many diorama modellers don’t use DAS at all, preferring various types of high density foam. A popular option seems to be blue Styrofoam (currently being changed to dark grey).  I’ve got some blue foam on order, but in the meantime I tried an alternative from the local wargames shop. This is called Foamed PVC (a.k.a. Forex) and is from Greenstuffworld - according to whom it doesn’t actually contain PVC.

 

 

The gent in the shop said the material is mostly used for making structures as it’s quite hard. You do need to press hard to make the impressions, but that could be an advantage as the result is less vulnerable to damage than foam or even DAS.

 

 

A quick test piece below with a lick of paint, revealing my learning curve. I like the idea that I can work separately on the sheet and then fit it to the layout once I’m satisfied. A cross-slope could be incorporated by curving the sheet.

 

 

 

I’ve also tried scribing the sheets with an awl. 

 

 

 

Here are some samples, just quickly scribed and painted.

 

 

That's the testing so far.  Will see what can be done with the blue foam when it arrives, and then draw my conclusions. Meanwhile comments and opinions are very welcome.

[AlfaZagato]

The Forex shows decent results, but I'd imagine it would be rather dear.

 

Have you considered taking a sanding block with some 400-grit to the DAS after it cures?   One or two passes should bring down the rounded profile, but I have no recent experience with clay.

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

The top one with DAS appears good for cobbles.  The question is how uniform were setts?  Very uniform then the second method, not so uniform then the third one.

 

All clever ideas though.

[N15class]

I do believe setts were very regular in size. Only being different when cut at ends of rows etc. There's probably something on the interweb to say.

I think the first ones are good just need the tops taking off.

[Northroader]

I’ll let you off doing the Arch.

[gobbler]

Some good looking results you have there.

 

Scott

[Mikkel]

Thanks gents, good point about sanding down the DAS imprints, that might work.

 

My impression is also that setts tended to be fairly regular, though not always.

 

For my yard, I'm after something like this:

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/places/stations-halts-london-stations-paddington-station/shunting-horse-paddington-1925-6300316.html

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/planes-trains-automobiles/gwr-road-vehicles-horse-drawn-vehicles/bristol-temple-meads-goods-depot-c1930-6300306.html

 

Regarding size, this page says:

 

Quote

The width of sett was determined by the need to provide a good grip for the horse's hoof and so was typically 3 or 4 inches wide. The preferred lengths were between 4 and 9 inches, longer blocks were avoided as they had a tendency to tilt under load. Although the term 'sett' is applied to any dressed granite paving stone, there were also local names for different sizes of block.

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Mikkel

[Mikkel]

7 hours ago, Northroader said:

I’ll let you off doing the Arch.

 

I do like that pattern. It was used in the yard at Birmingham Moor Street. Might be a bit too fancy for Farthing though.

 

Apart from scribing, it could be done using this (no connection):

[Dave John]

Hi Mikkel, hope you don't mind me posting a pic. 

 

This is the road which formed the approach to the CR yard at Kelvinbridge, it would have been laid about 1890 by contractors to the CR.  The setts are very regular and most have retained their square edges despite the councils 20 ton bin lorries. The longitudinal heavy stones on the left could be sanded in bad weather to stop carts slipping on the gradient, an interesting feature.  The dipped crossing is due to setts being lifted and relaid for services with inadequate infill. The camber at the edges is deep towards the gutter, round here usually 2 or 3 setts wide laid to the kerbstones for drainage. 

 

 

 

 

 

( Just out of interest the bit of wall on the left is 1970s, but note the Scottish pattern bonding, 3 + 1) 

 

 

 

[Methuselah]

When I was a kid - most older towns and especially cities, had a lot of exposed cobbles. At the time, I hated them. They rattled my bike to bits, were slippery as hell when wet, and the remaining tram-lines they were usually laced-with were a real hazard on a bike. Now I love them....! The colour, sizes and patterns varied a lot and was a very regional thing. When the trams were all scrapped, many cobbled roads were just asphalted-over, so there are acres of cobbles still hidden.

 

Colours seemed to range from near black, through shades of grey, to shades of brown. Fancy patterns were less common. About 5" sq on top seems average, although I recall them being bigger, maybe 6" sq 'oop norf' - and a warmer, lighter shade of granite. Oddly enough, I'm having a lorryload delivered this year to lay, but there will be no fancy patterns.... Hats-off to the guys who originally laid all those millions of the critters.

 

I'd also been codjitating about how to model cobbles. Years ago, I used embossed card sheets. Not bad, but useless for curved roads. The idea that I've been toying with is to make a roller, and emboss the pattern onto a partly-set medium such as plaster of paris etc. My thought was that this might be persuaded to lay a curved pattern - failing that using a tapered version for curves....?

[Mookie]

This has inspired me to find a place on my layout, for some Cobblestone/Sets.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Mookie

[amdaley]

There's a video here which might be of some use.

 

[Mikkel]

7 hours ago, Dave John said:

Hi Mikkel, hope you don't mind me posting a pic. 

 

This is the road which formed the approach to the CR yard at Kelvinbridge, it would have been laid about 1890 by contractors to the CR.  The setts are very regular and most have retained their square edges despite the councils 20 ton bin lorries. The longitudinal heavy stones on the left could be sanded in bad weather to stop carts slipping on the gradient, an interesting feature.  The dipped crossing is due to setts being lifted and relaid for services with inadequate infill. The camber at the edges is deep towards the gutter, round here usually 2 or 3 setts wide laid to the kerbstones for drainage. 

 

Thanks Dave, very interesting details. Those setts do look much more square at the corners than others I have seen.  Same pattern along the kerbside for the drainage here, in Kensington: 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Mookie said:

This has inspired me to find a place on my layout, for some Cobblestone/Sets.

 

Maybe at the back, behind the station? Although I suppose they'd be almost hidden there.

 

 

[Mikkel]

6 hours ago, Methuselah said:

The idea that I've been toying with is to make a roller, and emboss the pattern onto a partly-set medium such as plaster of paris etc. My thought was that this might be persuaded to lay a curved pattern - failing that using a tapered version for curves....?

 

Good point, I hadn't thought about the problem that curves will present to a roller! In the video posted by amdaley above, there's a demo of another kind of roller (at 3:50 and 8:20).  But not sure how it would deal with curves (also link here: http://www.mrr-tutorials.com/webshop/webshop_dm-toys_cobble.html).

 

4 hours ago, amdaley said:

There's a video here which might be of some use.

 

Thanks. Interesting to see the different solutions.  Here is another video, from which I nicked several ideas. It shows some very convincing work using blue foam. The setts look great in this demo, though not as worn as I'd like them.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Mikkel

[bgman]

Hi Mikkel,

 

I have watched the video above several times in the past and feel it gives a very good representation. Maybe with a little bit of distressing you might get the result you're looking for ?

 

I am tempted to use this method myself at some point.

 

Cheers 

 

G

[NHY 581]

This is my take on the subject. Carved DAS. Takes time but if you do it in short bursts it comes together quite quickly. 

 

A bit irregular but not too bad. Encouraged by this I will do this again.....at some point........when nurse allows it. 

 

Rob. 

[Methuselah]

The embossing with the adapted paint-brushes certainly seems to give the best aesthetic result....but it's pretty laborious. Fine for smaller areas of course. The roller in the video is what I had in mind, but it's rather too perfectly well spaced and perfect. Perhaps for larger areas, a home-made roller...? One could use the embossing method to do a strip of suitable material glued around a cylindrical armature, add a release-agent and smear-on an even layer of silicon. When dry and trimmed, this could be peeled-off (As a rubber-tube in effect.) and turned inside-out and streteched/glued around a new armature. Result - a custom cobble-roller to suit one's own preferred pattern and width and regularity etc. Just a thought...

[Mikkel]

11 hours ago, bgman said:

I have watched the video above several times in the past and feel it gives a very good representation. Maybe with a little bit of distressing you might get the result you're looking for ?

 

Hi Grahame, I'll try when the blue foam I ordered arrives. But wider and smoother setts. Incidentally I also tried foamboard and the method works for that too.

 

9 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

This is my take on the subject. Carved DAS. Takes time but if you do it in short bursts it comes together quite quickly. 

 

A bit irregular but not too bad. Encouraged by this I will do this again.....at some point........when nurse allows it. 

 

Rob. 

 

Yep, your original post on this is already stored in my "files for inspiration" .  That manhole reminds me that I need to dig out my Wizard models etch.

[Mikkel]

7 hours ago, Methuselah said:

The embossing with the adapted paint-brushes certainly seems to give the best aesthetic result....but it's pretty laborious. Fine for smaller areas of course. The roller in the video is what I had in mind, but it's rather too perfectly well spaced and perfect. Perhaps for larger areas, a home-made roller...? One could use the embossing method to do a strip of suitable material glued around a cylindrical armature, add a release-agent and smear-on an even layer of silicon. When dry and trimmed, this could be peeled-off (As a rubber-tube in effect.) and turned inside-out and streteched/glued around a new armature. Result - a custom cobble-roller to suit one's own preferred pattern and width and regularity etc. Just a thought...

 

That reminded me of a thread I had forgotten about. Found it here, maybe of interest: