Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[kitpw]

Odd, yes! Posed, certainly! What are they all up to? That smoke box looks eaten away on the outside - or coated in porridge. A nice collection of hats though.

 

Kit PW

[Schooner]

21 minutes ago, kitpw said:

 A nice collection of hats though.

Beat me to it

 

Excellent find Mikkel - I'm enjoying the fruits of your Getty labours!

[Compound2632]

Hush-hush prototype baltic tank? (Inspired by the B&E 4-2-4Ts of course.)

[Northroader]

Turning to my Ian Allan 1875 abc, No. 35 was quite an interesting engine. Built with a sister engine at Vulcan Foundry in 1848 to designs of Mr T R Crampton, no less, they were 0-4-0 tender engines, balanced with an intermediate driving shaft, and offered to the Shrewsbury and Chester. They were withdrawn in 1865, and the next year two long boiler 0-6-0s were built at Wolverhampton Stafford Road. (Unusual, the long boiler type was a bit passé by then, and the GWR didn’t do them, so quite exceptional) These are supposed to have parts of the original engines in them, the boiler has similar sizes but the driving wheels were smaller. It was scrapped in 1889, having worked in the Northern Division throughout.

I think the picture caption may be correct for the date, it shows an engine that obviously has had fair wear and tear having an overhaul out in the fresh air, up on accommodation bogies. All the workmen look in their Sunday best, has it been wheeled out of the shops into the daylight for a picture to be taken specially? Most probably Stafford Road rather than Swindon.

 

 

[ChrisN]

I wonder what they would have looked like on an ordinary day?  I think the tradesmen would have tried to be their smartest in their everyday clothes.  I knew a plumber, an old school plumber who even looked down on brass pipes and fittings, let alone plastic.  He was in his sixties and it was about 40 years ago I saw him on a roof working on some flashing.  (He explained he was a plumber, which meant he worked with lead, and flashing was lead.)  He was dressed as ever, in a shirt and tie, under probably a boiler suit.

 

I think even more in that time a tradesman would feel his position and dress appropriately.

[Mikkel]

Excellent information Northroader,  incl. drawing and everything.  

 

On the subject of clothing, I'm always amazed by all those seemingly white shirts on the railways, including the Navvies.

 

On a different matter, I have been looking at possible liveries for my 1854 PT under construction. I had been thinking of plain unlined  and unlettered green for its ca. 1914 date, which is a livery I actually rather like.

 

However, as Russ says on gwr.org.uk: "Saddle tanks were normally unlettered and unlined after 1906, but some newly converted Pannier tanks appearing after 1910 appeared with lining."  

 

I have so far found six photos of five different lined pannier tanks (one is online here), and had a look at when their panniers were fitted. The photo of No. 1656 surprised me, as it shows that at least this pannier had lining applied in 1914, quite late.

 

 

Some larger non-pannier tanks were also lined of course, but these were mostly built a few years earlier, e.g. the 39xxs (re-)constructed 1907-1910 of which there are several photos. 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Mikkel
Cleaned up table

[AlfaZagato]

I think cotton is white without any dyeing.   Then you have your commonly depicted white sheep.   The apparent commonality of white shirts I would wager was just no-one spending the money for color.

[Simond]

Mmm, not convinced that much that’s natural would be white for long.  Bleach, perhaps?

[ChrisN]

I remember in the 60s, (1960s!), a lot of fuss was made about men beginning to wear shirts of other colours apart from white.  My dad in the fifties always wore a white shirt with a semi-stiff collar and a tie, and wore white shirts to work all his life.  He did wear other colour short sleeve shirts as casual.

 

Also in the 50s and 60s policemen and firemen wore blue shirts with semi-stiff collars and ties.  They were an interseting fabric as I seem to remember that they had blue threads and white threads so although the overall effect was blue they appeared slightly speckled.

[Donw]

When I started as an apprentice one of the jointers was known as Gentleman Jim he would wear a white shirt. Befoe going down a manhole his mate would hang dust sheets behind the cable to be worked on and make sure it was clean. He always managed to keep clean and smart unlike the other jointers.

Don

[Miss Prism]

I can't explain the lining of those panniers, although some of the pics listed by Mikkel are prettied-up ex-works examples. I initially wondered whether a few of those panniers were earmarked as 'passenger locos', but it's difficult to see how this could be justified for 2012.

 

Unfortunately, there are far too few pictures of that era.

 

[kitpw]

The lining of panniers and the whiteness of shirts seem to be joined in this thread.  For the first, I'm baffled as there seems to be no discernable pattern (as in 'principle' not 'shape') to the lining or not lining - I too wondered if it might be to do with "passenger" or "goods" but that doesn't seem to be present in the available photo record.  As to the whiteness of shirts, see http://www.victorianweb.org/science/health/berclouw.html:  it became a big issue in the Victorian era as a matter of public health and public wash houses (and bath houses) survived into the 1960s - I remember the one on Lancaster Road, Notting Hill which was finally demolished in about 1979.  There is a lot more written about the laundry than about the lining... 

 

Kit PW

[Simond]

“The soap tax was eliminated in 1853....”

 

we should be grateful!

[Northroader]

13 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Excellent information Northroader,  incl. drawing and everything.  

 

 

Who’d have thought it? A GWR “Mammouth” . . . Yeaayyy!!

 

i would go for unlined, but then, I’m lazy and know my limitations.

 

on the subject of clean clothing, overhauling a steam loco is a dirty job, and putting decent clothing on is a no-brainer. I think the boss selected his star performers, and told them they were going to have their photograph taken, and their wives on hearing this, insisted they put their best gear on for the occasion.

 

Cotton twill (denim) overalls, either boiler suit of bib and brace , were in the future, generally it was corduroy or fustian, another heavy cotton textile. You can find early photos of footplate crew in fustian jackets, with a white appearance. Getting them clean was done by boiling in water using soap or soda, and this made them fade, with the original colour pale ing over successive washes. If you look at footplate crew pictures in the 1930s, their denim overalls which started dark blue are fading to sky blue. It was until “dry” cleaning after WW2 that overalls retained the dark blue colour.

[bgman]

6 hours ago, Simond said:

“The soap tax was eliminated in 1853....”

 

we should be grateful!

 

You wouldn't think so standing next to some of the punters that go to exhibitions ! 

[Guest Jack Benson]

39 minutes ago, bgman said:

 

You wouldn't think so standing next to some of the punters that go to exhibitions ! 

The current pandemic has few benefits except the 2m distancing and opportunity to avoid close contact with the socially inept attendees at cancelled exhibitions. The memory of Railwells in the heat of August still lingers almost as long as the odour.

 

Stay Safe

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, bgman said:

 

You wouldn't think so standing next to some of the punters that go to exhibitions ! 

Just because it isn't taxed, don't mean it's free...

[drduncan]

4 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

The current pandemic has few benefits except the 2m distancing and opportunity to avoid close contact with the socially inept attendees at cancelled exhibitions. The memory of Railwells in the heat of August still lingers almost as long as the odour.

 

Stay Safe

Some socially inept modellers are actually quite clean.  I think we need more precision... they are ‘hygienically inert’ but clearly they can also be (but it’s not compulsory) socially inept.

D

Edited January 6, 2021 by drduncan

[Mikkel]

22 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I can't explain the lining of those panniers, although some of the pics listed by Mikkel are prettied-up ex-works examples. I initially wondered whether a few of those panniers were earmarked as 'passenger locos', but it's difficult to see how this could be justified for 2012.

 

Unfortunately, there are far too few pictures of that era.

 

 

21 hours ago, kitpw said:

The lining of panniers and the whiteness of shirts seem to be joined in this thread.  For the first, I'm baffled as there seems to be no discernable pattern (as in 'principle' not 'shape') to the lining or not lining - I too wondered if it might be to do with "passenger" or "goods" but that doesn't seem to be present in the available photo record. 

 

Station Pilots? That appears to be the work situations depicted in the above photos (not including the presentation shot of 2012). Wouldn't be the only time in railway history that station pilots were given fancy liveries.

[kitpw]

Mikkel, good thought - station pilots may well be right. Picking up closer to where you started with the livery question, my own view is that the panniers are best in their unlined green - for certain by the time of the 1920s period I'm modelling.

 

Kit PW

[Miss Prism]

56 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Station Pilots?

 

Some station pilots, e.g. Laira and Exeter, were buffed up (domes and safety valves).  But they would not have been lined because they were pilots IMO. More likely that lined locos might have been chosen as station pilots. What we don't know is why some of these locos were lined, and there were certainly plenty of unlined pilots. Prairies aside, the Buffalos were the most powerful small tanks of their day, but does that qualify a few of them for lining, especially as late as 1914?

 

Or perhaps we should accept that history is merely one damn thing after another.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Miss Prism

[Mikkel]

Working on my first tree for the surburban street alongside the yards at Farthing. Apart from a bit of dabbling some 30 years ago, trees are new territory for me.

 

The basic armature was made from Treemendus 0.5 mm wire, cut to 150 mm lengths of which I used 45 for this tree. I have since obtained some similar wire from a local florist. 

 

 

I moulded the overall shape in situ. The trees will serve as framing devices at the front of the layout. I did twist the wires more neatly later!
 

 

 

Treemendus bark powder was then applied. It’s all a bit rough, I’m learning as I go along.
 

 

 

The next step was inspired by Mark, who has used sea foam to build a fine branch structure on to a ready-made armature, as seen in his thread here:

 

 

I got some sea foam from Heki and glued individual bits to my wire armature, using superglue.

 

 

 

The pods can be removed, but I didn’t bother as the foliage I used conceals it.

 

 

 

I sprayed the top of the crown a light brown shade. I’ve started using Liquitex sprays for this sort of thing, low-toxic water based spraypaint for artists.

 

 

 

For the foliage I tried out coarse turf from Woodlands scenic (not their standard clump foliage). This is used by Luke Towan and Kaustav Chatterjee to good effect, I find. Here's a video by Kaustav, again he uses ready-made armatures but other than that it's the same approach.

 

 

 

 

 

The foliage was attached using Hob-e-Tac- glue. It’s very sticky, non-toxic and quite effective.

 

 

 

The turf was pressed lightly into the glue with ye olde fingers, or tweezers for difficult locations.

 

 

 

The foliage sticks to the outer reaches of the seafoam, leaving a nice natural branch structure behind it. 
 

 

 

I tried not to make the crown too neat and regular. 

 

 

 

Close-up photos do reveal the spongy nature of the coarse turf. I think it looks OK to the naked eye though, the tiny holes result in a nice shadowy texture when seen from my normal viewing distance.

 

 

 

A trial fit.  The species is Platanus Acerfolia Brunelia, a subspecies of the London Plane. Favoured by Farthing's town planners since Victorian times, it was known for a broader and richer crown than the common London Plane.

 

I'll return to the trunk and other details once the rest of the trees have been made, to ensure a common colour scheme.  There's certainly room for improvement and many lessons learnt. But this is fun!

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Mikkel
Crown not canopy!

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Outstanding modelling Mikkel. Great step by step guide as well. Certainly adds to the scene and appears as if it has also been in situ. Fabulous. 

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

The species is Platanus Acerfolia Brunelia, [...] a broader and richer canopy than the common London Plane.

 

Ho ho ho!

[ChrisN]

They had London plane at the hospital where I used to work.  When you parked your car underneath it, it left your windscreen covered in tiny, sticky blobs.  I would put a tissue under your creations to catch the muck.

 

Excellent Mikkel, they look great.  I am just hoping the town planners at Traeth Mawr have no use for trees.