Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Mikkel]

PS: Found a couple of useful photos. Crops here:

 

Abingdon stable block:

 

 

Little Somerford stable block:

 

 

Both are BR era photos though, and I think the Little Somerford cupolas have had work done to them since GWR days, as they do not have slated roofs.

 

If I follow the Abingdon example, there isn't really much visible flashing to speak of - if any at all.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Mikkel

[bgman]

Mikkel,

 

The above cupola roofs may well have been finished in either lead sheeting or copper. I would suspect the former being used due to the cost implications. Just a thought.

 

Grahame

[Nick Holliday]

Mikkel,

The above cupola roofs may well have been finished in either lead sheeting or copper. I would suspect the former being used due to the cost implications. Just a thought.

Grahame

Zinc sheeting would be a cheaper and lighter alternative.

[Compound2632]

Zinc sheeting would be a cheaper and lighter alternative.

 

What would have been the material of choice in 1905 or earlier?

[Nick Holliday]

What would have been the material of choice in 1905 or earlier?

I seem to recall that the platform canopies at Horsted Keynes were roofed with zinc sheeting, probably galvanised steel rather than pure zinc sheets, and they were erected circa 1881.

[N15class]

Mikkel looking at your photos the rooves are in thin sheet the central join is indicative of this I would also go for zinc, I do not think the colour looks light enough for Verdigris. The bottom of the two pictures the flashing also looks as if it could be zinc sheet too.

[Mikkel]

Thanks gents, I went for slates for the cupola roofs because of these photos of the stable blocks at Abingdon and Witney:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/a/abingdon/index26.shtml

http://www.fairfordbranch.co.uk/Witney_Goods.htm

 

It looks like slates to me, but I'm not certain. The zinc could be a later addition/change.

 

It's frustrating that there is so little photo evidence of stable blocks around 1900. It was all about those bl**dy locos :-)

[Mikkel]

Drawing of "GWR New Stable at Hayle", no date, carries this note next to the cupola: "No. 15 Y.M. Zinc Covering on 1" boarding".

 

So zinc definitely used at some point and in some cases in GWR days. 

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I would have thought they would be lead, here are a few photo of cupulas around Aylesbury.

 

 

[bgman]

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/a/abingdon/index26.shtml

http://www.fairfordbranch.co.uk/Witney_Goods.htm

 

It looks like slates to me, but I'm not certain. The zinc could be a later addition/change.

 

It's frustrating that there is so little photo evidence of stable blocks around 1900. It was all about those bl**dy locos :-)

That's all fine and dandy but Mikkel .....

 

 

[Mikkel]

No, not sure at all  - just wondering 

 

 

 

 

[bgman]

I expect this may be subjected to further questioning but in my opinion I still feel that the cupola would have been constructed using sheet lead.

It is very difficult to determine from the photographs, which when blown up, still show very little detail.

I cannot see any staining / patination specific to the use of zinc to be totally definate.

[Mikkel]

I expect this may be subjected to further questioning but in my opinion I still feel that the cupola would have been constructed using sheet lead.

It is very difficult to determine from the photographs, which when blown up, still show very little detail.

I cannot see any staining / patination specific to the use of zinc to be totally definate.

 

I largely agree Grahame. No doubt the safe bet for anyone building a GWR stable block would be to do the cupola with a metal sheeting of sorts rather than slates, since the photos and my drawing reference above show that this was used in some (most?) cases. Whether slates were then also used in some other cases (or at some point in time) is much less certain.

 

I have found some more photos of GWR stableblocks on the Britian From Above site and in Google Maps, and in some cases the texture and colour of the cupola roof looks exactly like that of the main slate roof - but as we know from livery discussions, photos can so easily deceive! Below is a close-up from Google Maps of the GWR stable block at Basingstoke, which I found after a tip by Western Star (thanks!).

 

 

Anyway, I will leave my cupolas as they are for now and move on. I can see a "GWR Stable Block tour" coming up next time I come to the UK!

 

Edited to add better photo.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Mikkel

[Stubby47]

[hushed David Attenborough voice]

...and here, amongst the natural foliage, three cupolas lie in wait to trap the unwary modeller. Their colours change with the light and season, who can tell what they really look like...

[/hushed voice]

[Graham456]

[hushed David Attenborough voice]

...and here, amongst the natural foliage, three cupolas lie in wait to trap the unwary modeller. Their colours change with the light and season, who can tell what they really look like...

[/hushed voice]

Ah Ha!

I detect clues to Stu next layout from this involving working horses no doubt!

[Stubby47]

Ah Ha!

I detect clues to Stu next layout from this involving working horses no doubt!

'Fraid not.

 

With 4 cameo layouts planned, 5 cakebox entries ( sorry that should say 2, what am I like?), not to mention the bigger project in the loft, I've no time for working horse layouts.

 

Edit to change 4 to 5, and it's only October...

Edited October 27, 2017 by Stubby47

[Western Star]

... a close-up from Google Maps of the GWR stable block at Basingstoke, which I found after a tip by Western Star (thanks!).

How about I go and look at those stables to see what has been used for the cupola roof?  Could get the car washed at the same time!

 

regards, Graham

[Mikkel]

[hushed David Attenborough voice]

...and here, amongst the natural foliage, three cupolas lie in wait to trap the unwary modeller. Their colours change with the light and season, who can tell what they really look like...

[/hushed voice]

 

Google Streetview can be fun, but nothing beats Britain From Above. I can't praise it enough, although you have to sign in to zoom and really enjoy it. I'm working my way through the GWR network. Here is Chippenham in 1934:

 

 

Source: Britain From Above, as permitted: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW045774

[Mikkel]

How about I go and look at those stables to see what has been used for the cupola roof?  Could get the car washed at the same time!

 

regards, Graham

 

That would be a big help Graham, very much appreciated. I bet they'll be wondering what you're staring at 

[martinT]

Google Streetview can be fun, but nothing beats Britain From Above. I can't praise it enough, although you have to sign in to zoom and really enjoy it. I'm working my way through the GWR network. Here is Chippenham in 1934:

 

EPW045774.jpg

 

Source: Britain From Above, as permitted: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW045774

 

there seems to be quite a few white, or light coloured, wagon roofs - more than commonly accepted wisdom would predict I think!

 

Martin

[Miss Prism]

there seems to be quite a few white, or light coloured, wagon roofs - more than commonly accepted wisdom would predict I think!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69091-one-for-the-how-many-van-roofs-were-white-at-the-same-time-question/

[martinT]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69091-one-for-the-how-many-van-roofs-were-white-at-the-same-time-question/

 

thanks for the link Russ  - a very interesting thread that tends to confirm my belief that white, or fairly pale, wagon roofs weren't as uncommon as many modellers believe (& portray).

 

Martin

[Mikkel]

Status update from the workbench.
 
For those who don’t visit the blogs, a shot of the Park Royal stable block, now finished. More photos and a build summary here.



Looking for a little light relief, I then had a rummage through the kit box and found an ancient Mike’s Models kit for a water bowser. Some of the parts are rather overscale, especially the pumping mechanism (not shown), so it may be worth scratchbuilding the remaining bits.
 

 
 
I suspect the kit is based on the GWR examples on the SVR. Here’s a shot of the one at Bewdley. Does anyone know if this was the colour it carried in GWR days?
 

 
 
Also in the kit box was this velocipede (“ganger’s trolley” in the Mike’s Models list). The wheels really should be spoked and one or two parts seem to be missing from the kit, but fun it is.
 

 
 
According to the www.velocipedes.co.uk website, these maschines were originally invented in the US in 1879, but were later bought and used by the GWR, LNE and SR. I wonder though if that was after my 1900s timeframe? It can be seen in operation at 2:22 here: 

 

 

Meanwhile, in a staggering new development, I've started yet another Iron Mink. But at least this one has a couple of twists. I’m modelling no. 11258 as depicted in Atkins et al (1998 edition) page 369. This had the deeper ventilator bonnets and a hybrid livery combining the cast iron plates and large "GW" as dicussed here. 
 

 
 
The deeper bonnets were 23½ in and introduced on new (and possibly some old) Iron Minks from around 1899. This photo shows the difference in 4mm scale, with the deeper one built from 5 thou styrene, strenghtened on the inside with an extra layer :
 

 
 
Lastly, work is slowly progressing on the latest Farthing layout. Here, the usual red wagons and a couple of interlopers from the Midland contingent are testing out the slightly wonky track.
 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Mikkel

[bgman]

All looking very promising Mikkel, afraid I can't help with the colour of the bowser, anything in HMRS ?

 

Keep rummaging eh !

[Compound2632]

Meanwhile, in a staggering new development, I've started yet another Iron Mink. But at least this one has a couple of twists. I’m modelling no. 11258 as depicted in Atkins et al (1998 edition) page 369. This had the deeper ventilator bonnets and a hybrid livery combining the cast iron plates and large "GW" as dicussed here. 

 

Oh ho! In parallel with this, you'll be adding a small diorama of a cat amongst some pigeons...

 

Lastly, work is slowly progressing on the latest Farthing layout. Here, the usual red wagons and a couple of interlopers from the Midland contingent are testing out the slightly wonky track. 

 

Good to see a wagon free from ambiguity and uncertainty!