Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[davidbr]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Overall though my main problem is that they stick and curl as they are magnetic, so I can't work properly with them and it takes ages to get them right.

 

Try nylon jawed pliers: https://www.toolsntoolsuk.co.uk/shop/parallel-action-flat-nose-nylon-jaw-pliers-5-12-jewelry-crafts-with-extra-jaws/  

 

There are also brass-nosed: https://www.toolsntoolsuk.co.uk/shop/parallel-action-flat-nose-pliers-smooth-brass-jaws-tips-jewelry-making-120-mm/

Edited June 9, 2020 by davidbr

[Mikkel]

Thanks David for those suggestions. That second pair are so stylish I'm tempted to buy them just for that!

 

Simon, I cannot imagine what it would do to my sanity if I tried to solder the gap in 4mm links. I'm sure someone somewhere is doing it though 

 

 

 

 

[kitpw]

...the brass jaw paralell pliers are a real bonus, not least because they don't become magnetic.  I have an ancient pair (ex grandfather, ex USA) which I find invaluable.

Be tempted! As for soldering 4mm scale links, I'll leave you to think on that one....

Kit PW

[Simond]

Ok, guys, I model in 7mm, but it does not seem to me to be impossible to solder 4mm links.  
 

ideally, do it before they get old, dirty & oxidised

a drop of non corroding flux, BLT or citric acid, on the joint.

a very hot, very fine iron with the tiniest drop of solder on the tip

stretch links out using tweezers, holding wagon firmly in other hand

using your third hand, touch Iron to link, fizz, voila...

wet paint brush with drop of slightly soapy water to neutralise any remaining flux

dab of thinned black/rusty paint

ditto repeato as required.

 

what, you don’t have a third hand?  Oh dear, that must be inconvenient...

[richbrummitt]

23 minutes ago, Simond said:

 

what, you don’t have a third hand?  Oh dear, that must be inconvenient...

 

Waiting for new stock to come in.

 

I have been warned to solder up my links or they will gently open out with time and fall apart. Not enough round tuits either...

[MikeOxon]

34 minutes ago, Simond said:

...

a drop of non corroding flux, BLT or citric acid, on the joint.

 

I've never thought of bacon, lettuce, and tomato as a flux

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

I've never thought of bacon, lettuce, and tomato as a flux

 

On the other hand, following some threads on here, branch line termini can be in a state of flux, track-plan-wise.

 

I must line up my red wagons...

[Siberian Snooper]

I invested in a set of these for soldering.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Conductive-Ceramic-Pointed-Tips-Black-Silver-Metal-Tweezers-Forceps-Pliers/383457522408?hash=item5947d972e8:m:mii3-1y78I7NwFXtDUScngw

 

Be warned the ceramic part stays hot for longer than the metal you have just soldered, guess how I know?

 

 

[Mikkel]

Interesting! 

 

Also from the UK here (though personally I'm no fan of Amazon and supposed to be on a "no more tools" drive!  )

[MikeOxon]

35 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

...supposed to be on a "no more tools" drive! 

 

I was browsing the Tools N Tools site and thought these might be useful for lines of rivets.  Then I read the description and discovered they have other, rather different, applications

[davidbr]

Whilst on useful tools, I recommend these:

They are hackle pliers, used for fly tying and available from angling shops.  Veniard is a common make.  Price: about £2.75 with the comfortable finger pieces; £2.50 without.  The jaws are very nearly parallel and they have a good grip.

[mike morley]

Would urge going for the type with the finger grips.  It wouldnt take much use for fingertips to become very sore with the type that lacks them and also a much higher risk of them slipping and damaging the model when being fitted or removed.

[webbcompound]

On 07/06/2020 at 14:37, Mikkel said:

Ie also made some loco lamps for the Dean Goods. In principle I need the pre-1903 “socket” type, but I don’t believe they’re available in 4mm. So I used the later GWR tail lamps from Model U, which are slimmer than the headlamps and better for my purposes. 

 

Lovely Loco, and excellent lamps, but re the early lamps these look to be the same as LNWR lamps, which are now available from Modelu

Edited June 14, 2020 by webbcompound

[Mikkel]

Ah, those look good. The handles are not quite right for GWR, I believe (they should be curved). 

 

Laurie Griffin has both the pre-and post 1902/3 GWR lamps in 7mm, illustrating the difference here.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Mikkel
Trouble with link

[Florence Locomotive Works]

I rarely go a day without using my brass lined parallel pliers. Unfortunately they are quite large, and aren’t always the greatest for small work. For small things I have some very small Märklin pliers, which come in their tool kit, and are excellent.

[Mikkel]

I’m eager to get going with that 1813 project I keep talking about. However, after some initial experiments I’ve decided to wait and see what the new Bachmann 94xx chassis will be like when it’s out in October, as it may be useful under the 1813. 

In the meantime I have started a little “nostalgia project”. I have a certain affinity for the old Hornby 2721, and thought I’d see what could be done with it. In principle it would make more sense to use a kit,  but I specifically want the Hornby item in my stable, for old times' sake. So the aim is to improve it, and enjoy a good RTR bash along the way. Period-wise, I'm aiming for a pre-WW1 loco.

Other have worked on the Hornby 2721 before, see here, here,  and this thread:

 

@Barry Ten fitted a Comet chassis under his Hornby 2721, see this post:

 

I'll use a Bachmann 57xx/8750 chassis for my project.  Various versions exist, and both of these have been used by others under the Hornby 2721. My loco refs for these were 32-200  (on the left below) and 31-900 (right).

 

 

 

I’m using the later variant, which is shorter and lower than the earlier type. The con rods should be fluted for a 2721, but I have plans to deal with that. Here, the weight has been removed for testing the fit. 

 

 

 

Below, the Bachmann chassis and Hornby body. There are various well-known issues with the Hornby 2721. Hornby used a Jinty chassis, and so the splashers don’t line up with the more correctly dimensioned Bachmann chassis. The frames are also too long, and there’s no daylight under the boiler. The chimney is appealing, but wrong shape.

 

 

 

So, lots of fun to be had. I disassembled the body and was surprised to see that the tank/boiler top is a separate component, well disguised under the handrail. I wonder why Hornby did that?

 

 

 

The first job was to get some light under the boiler/panniers.

 

 

 

@Coach bogieused a micro-drill for his conversions. I don’t have one of those, so used a scalpel, scoring repeatedly along the edges of the moulded sides with a used blade, then eventually cutting through with the tip of a sharp new blade.

 

 

And behold, there was light. 

 

 

 

Then the interior was cut, carved and hacked about until the chassis was a good fit along the sides and ends. The photo is early on in the process, a good deal of material was removed.

 

 

 

The chassis and modified body. There’s ample room for the Bachmann weight block, so that was re-fitted.

 

 

The backhead was cut away to allow room for the gears. Cab full of motor, I did say this was a nostalgia project! I’ll see what can be done to disguise it later.

 

 

From the side.

 

 

 

The center splashers, being out of line, were then attacked. 

 

 

This also allows better clearance for the center drivers. I’ll remove the toolboxes later, have left them to retain some strength in the frames while I work on the body.

 

 

Status for now. Looks a bit like a 1366, doesn’t it. 
 

 

[Mikkel]

While on the subject of RTR chassis, here are 60 seconds of my modified Dean Goods (initial twin-flywheel version) crawling along the track at Farthing. No offence taken if you get bored!

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Mikkel

[kitpw]

...ah, pannier tank, the quintessential GWR loco.  I'll follow this development with great interest:  the pannier I have (57XX: currently in re-paint) isn't entirely correct for the 1920s at Swan Hill (I'd like to be wrong about that but I don't think so) and so I need to look at building one that is earlier in date - like the 27XX. I will keep watching!

Kit PW

Edited June 18, 2020 by kitpw

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Awesome another Mikkel loco project. Is it Christmas? 

[The Johnster]

Not all 2721s had fluted coupling rods all their lives, and some had 57xx type fishbelly rods .  Depending on period you may find a suitable loco from photographs.  

[Compound2632]

When did pannierisation start? Or, to put the question the other way round, what chance of turning it into a saddle tank?

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

Good to see this project.  I am sure it will come to a successful conclusion.  Will there be much of the Hornby 2127 left?  I can always send you another body if you need it.  Mind you, the more I look at that chimney the more it seems it should fit on a 645 so it may arrive with a hole at the front.  

 

I am impressed that you always have a camera to hand to take pictures of all of it as you go along.  I just about remember after a session to do it before the next one.

[Mikkel]

@kitpw you could also consider the Finecast pannier version of the 1854, either as a straight build or turn it into a 2721. The two classes were very similar. The 2721s had coil springs above the center and leading drivers (behind the splashers), which I'll also be fitting. I don't know the quality of the Finecast pannier version though.

 

 @Bluemonkey presents.... Thanks Matt, working from home during the crisis has freed up some transport time, so there's been a bit more time for modelling. Soon to end here, though, which is of course primarily a good thing. 

 

@The Johnster I'm going for a ca. 1909-1914 version and am a bit unsure if any non-fluted con rods were fitted that early. Photos of pannier-fitted 2721s in this period seem rather sparse, as opposed to photos of the saddle tanks and the post-1920s period, so am mostly working from a couple of drawings (dangerous, but then the goal here is not high accuracy).

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Mikkel
To clarify

[Mikkel]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

When did pannierisation start? Or, to put the question the other way round, what chance of turning it into a saddle tank?

 

From 1909 onwards. The first was 2796 which had small panniers, later changed to longer standard ones.  The Hornby body has a B4 firebox, so using the RCTS volume on GWR 6-wheel tanks I put together a list of the 10 earliest locos with the pannier tank/B4 boiler combination:

 

 

Older type boilers were sometimes fitted after a B4 boiler had been used, the list takes that into account. There were also the usual changes to bunkers and cabs etc. The Hornby 2721 enlarged bunker style was first seen during WW1 on the big eight and ten-wheeled tank locos, and didn’t appear on smaller engines until 1924, so I'll replace that.

 

In terms of turning it into a Saddle Tank, I personally think that might be a step too far. You could use the tank parts from the Finecast 1854ST kit, but then you might as well build the whole Finecast body and put a Bachmann chassis under it, e.g.:

 

 

 

@ChrisN  The 2721 was one of my favourites when I browsed Hornby catalogues as a boy, so it means something to me and I felt it was worth giving it an upgrade. Would be nice if you can use the chimney for your 645, but the Hornby one is tapered, would that be correct?

 

Regarding the many build photos, I find it useful as they reveal issues the eye hadn't spotted, especially as my close-up eye-sight is getting poorer (glasses might help too!).

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Mikkel

[The Johnster]

Stafford Road Models/Shapeway do a 3D print Saddle Tank suitable for 1854/2721 designed to fit the Hornby chassis, for less than 30 beer vouchers, basic bodyshell needs buffers, top furniture, handrails etc.  
 

The Hornby 2721 has a tapered-towards-the-top chimney, and needs a parallel one; I replaced mine, and the crude safety valve cover, with items from a scrapped Westward 64xx.