DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha

[Ron Ron Ron]

Announced at Alexandra Palace today.

 

Effectively, a sort of NCE Mini Panel that can be used on any DCC system.

 

Install under any control or mimic panel, to provide DCC control of points and accessories. 

Even for a DC controlled layout.

As with other similar modules from other manufacturers, it will massively reduce wiring and likely improve electrical reliability.

 

Also there is the Alpha Box, a stand alone "dumb" Booster, that can be used to independently power an accessory bus.

Useful if your DCC system's power output is too low to handle the number of points and other accessories on a layout.

Also useful if the layout is controlled by analogue DC, but you want to cut down on the masses of wiring needed for points, signals and other layout accessories.

 

The Alpha Box can also be used just as a plain Booster for any DCC system. Price hinted as around the £99 mark.

 

Currently works on NCE, but Dongles are being developed to enable the Cobalt Alpha to work with other brands of DCC system, such as Lenz, Digitrax, ESU etc, etc.

 

 

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ron Ron Ron

[David Todd]

Announced at Alexandra Palace today.

 

Effectively, a sort of NCE Mini Panel for use on any DCC system.

 

Use under any control or mimic panel, to provide DCC control of points and accessories. 

Even for a DC controlled layout.

As with other similar modules, it will massively reduce wiring and likely improve electrical reliability.

 

Also there is the Alpha Box, a stand alone "dumb" Booster, that can be used to independently power an accessory bus.

Useful if your DCC system has too low a power output to handle points and other accessories.

Also useful if the layout is not DC, but you want to cut down on the masses of wiring needed for points, signals and other layout accessories.

 

The Alpha Box can even be used just as a Booster for any DCC system. Price hinted as around the £99 mark.

 

Currently works on NCE, but Dongles are being developed to enable the Cobalt Alpha to work with other brands of DCC system, such as Lenz, Digitrax, ESU etc, etc.

 

 

.

 

Did anyone take a photograph, ?      I completely forgot to.

[Grovenor]

Did anyone take a photograph, ?      I completely forgot to.

Pictures on their website.

Keith

[Ron Ron Ron]

Pictures on their website.

Keith

 

I struggled to find them Keith, but eventually found them by using the search function and just searching on "Alpha".

The details are contained in a News letter.

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Cobalt Alpha components are starting to find their way into the shops.

 

The Alpha main unit and its remote "extension display" accessory, appears to be in stock, but the optional "Black Box" stand-alone accessory bus Booster is still listed as "order", or "coming soon".

 

Likewise the "Cobalt Alpha Central Integrated Digital Switch", control panel, has a yet to appear.

 

One interesting new item in the range is the "Cobalt Alpha Commander - Automated Sequence Controller".

No details have been provide so far, as to what this unit does?

   

 

.

[traction]

I've been told by DCC Concepts you need the Alpha Black box for it to work with Hornby systems.

 

£59.95 for the Alpha panel

£125 for the Alpha Black box(Smart Booster)

then a suitable power supply for the black box, not cheap.

The alpha central which is the ready made switch panel is £155

 

I couldn't find this manual on the DCC web site it was sent to me, it's 11.5MB so this link is to my BOX account for those that are interested:-

 

https://app.box.com/s/o5iv9k06updcoptptsoz3rot1hqntz42

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited December 11, 2015 by traction

[ColinK]

I've seen all the ads for this, but haven't yet managed to work out quite what it does, how it works and how you wire it up. Is there a simple explaination somewhere?

[Nigelcliffe]

I've seen all the ads for this, but haven't yet managed to work out quite what it does, how it works and how you wire it up. Is there a simple explaination somewhere?

I haven't worked it out yet either, because information is lacking even in the dozens of pages in the link above.

 

What it clearly can do is act as a packet sniffer (as can several other DCC systems, eg. ECoS) and take the output of the existing DCC system, combine that with inputs to the Alpha (from turnout buttons/switches) and put the combined DCC signal on the output.

 

It is also a panel/switch system for the NCE bus system, clearly built around that bus structure. So, for NCE owners, its a third-party add-on to the NCE system.

 

 

What is less clear is the level of feedback into the existing DCC system. Clearly no feedback into the ECoS (because no data bus connection), but data bus connections are shown for Xpressnet (Lenz and others) and LocoNet (Digitrax and others). The diagrams never show the original DCC system connected to track, so I am not sure whether the bus connections are truly bi-directional, or if it remains an esentially one-way device.

I'd also suggest anyone using Uhlenbrock versions of LocoNet ask before connecting - sometimes Uhlenbrock kit doesn't play well with the LocoNet and DCC bus being connected in other kit and things can go "bang" (the ground levels are different to Digitrax' implementation of LocoNet).

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Mick Bonwick]

I haven't worked it out yet either, because information is lacking even in the dozens of pages in the link above.

 

 

I'm glad it's not just me! I'm sure it will all become clear in time.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for posting that manual Ian.

 

The details in there may or may not contradict other information on the DCC Concepts web site.

The manual appears to be concentrating on promoting the Black Box (or Alpha Box as it's now being called) for it's various uses, such as.... 

 

powering an independent Accessory Bus,

as a Booster (for almost any DCC system) to power additional Power Districts,

to upgrade the Booster capability of low power output and starter DCC systems

and as an alternative SmartBooster for the NCE PowerCab (instead of using NCE's own SB5 product).

 

Unfortunately, the whole document appears to be a bit of a mess, containing some inconsistencies, typo's and errors.

The most obvious ones are the transposing of the term Command or Cab bus, with Control bus.

Even the annotations to the diagrams  (for e.g. the labelling of sockets) are transposed or incorrectly written. 

However, there is a note to say that the photos are of prototype units, so the labelling may have been wrong on those and may be corrected on production examples????

 

 

Taken from another set of instructions for the Cobalt Alpha..... 

 

As bought, Cobalt Alpha is directly connectable to the command bus of all NCE DCC systems with a standard RJ12 cable.

 

If you have another brand of DCC system ...you can use Cobalt Alpha with the addition of an appropriate “Command bus protocol adapter”.

Cobalt Alpha will then connect to your layouts “Command bus” and it will act as a specialised controller for accessories and any accessory decoder designed to work with DCC standards.

 

This suggests that by using an appropriate “Command bus protocol adapter”, the Alpha and Alpha Central can be directly connected to the Command bus of various other DCC systems, without having to use the Alpha Box as an interface.

As it states, connection to the NCE Command Bus (Cab Bus) is already possible without using any such adapter. 

 

However this now appears to be contradicted by the manual posted by Ian.

There appears to be no mention of the “Command bus protocol adapter” there and only connection via an Alpha Box is mentioned for non-NCE systems.

 

I am quite baffled by this.

 

 

.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Ron Ron Ron

[traction]

Ron,

 

The information you cut out and quoted about the "Command Bus Protocol adapter is exactly what I quoted in an Email to DCC Concepts.

The reply was, that as the Hornby systems don't have CABS that can plug in it will only work with the Alpha box.

 

I did state that you can plug in Selects to the Elite or Selects to Selects and they all have to be addressed with their own number, so it should work.

I was trying to find out if I could use that Roco or Xpress-net interface kit, so one end plugs into the Select or Elite the other end has the socket to take the RJ12 curly cable that comes with the Cobalt Alpha.

 

Didn't get an answer to that.

 

The manual is confusing which I did mention, it really does look like it's promoting the Alpha Black box and the Alpha Power(the 5amp power supply) to connect the Cobalt Alpha to any DCC system.

Unless of course you have the NCE system then you can do anything.

Still not enough CORRECT information out there at present.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

I agree Ian, it's not really very clear.
 
On the issue of “Command bus protocol adapters”, this is what the product description says for the Lenz adapter says......
 

Cobalt Alpha Adapter - Lenz
 
The DCD-LZX is an adapter that translates the communication language of Cobalt Alpha to allow you to interface it directly with a LENZ DCC System.
It is very simple to install -simply connect it to Cobalt Alpha, and then plug the other end into your Lenz DCC system command bus / X-bus. 

 
 
Although direct connection (NCE) or connection via protocol adapters (other DCC systems) should allow the Alpha and Alpha Central to work with most DCC systems, some people will be looking to provide their layout with its own dedicated accessory bus, operating as a separate Power District powered by its own Booster.
This is where the Alpha Box comes in, rather than using a probably more expensive Booster from your DCC manufacturer's own range, which in most cases cannot support the Alpha or similar encoders.
I suspect this is the angle on which the Alpha Box is being promoted.
 
Using Lenz as an example.
Their LW150 encoder that will allow mimic or switch panels to be connected to the DCC system, costs around £73 (compared to around £51 for the Cobalt Alpha).
Then add to that the cost of a Lenz LV102 Booster (between £138 and £154).
Dare I say that's a rather more expensive solution that opting for the DCC Concepts Cobalt alpha range of products?
 
.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Ron Ron Ron

[tender]

Announced at Alexandra Palace today.

 

Effectively, a sort of NCE Mini Panel that can be used on any DCC system.

 

Install under any control or mimic panel, to provide DCC control of points and accessories. 

Even for a DC controlled layout.

As with other similar modules from other manufacturers, it will massively reduce wiring and likely improve electrical reliability.

 

Also there is the Alpha Box, a stand alone "dumb" Booster, that can be used to independently power an accessory bus.

Useful if your DCC system's power output is too low to handle the number of points and other accessories on a layout.

Also useful if the layout is controlled by analogue DC, but you want to cut down on the masses of wiring needed for points, signals and other layout accessories.

 

The Alpha Box can also be used just as a plain Booster for any DCC system. Price hinted as around the £99 mark.

 

Currently works on NCE, but Dongles are being developed to enable the Cobalt Alpha to work with other brands of DCC system, such as Lenz, Digitrax, ESU etc, etc.

 

 

.

 

Don't think this (Cobalt Alpha) is anything like a NCE mini Panel (unless i'm reading the blurb wrong) as it doesn't have any of the programmable macro facilities for controlling Loco's, accessories etc.

Seems to be just a switch panel (add your own switches) for switching DCC accessories connected to the DCC bus via the NCE cab bus.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Don't think this (Cobalt Alpha) is anything like a NCE mini Panel (unless i'm reading the blurb wrong) as it doesn't have any of the programmable macro facilities for controlling Loco's, accessories etc.

Seems to be just a switch panel (add your own switches) for switching DCC accessories connected to the DCC bus via the NCE cab bus.

 

I agree. The Cobalt Alpha appears to be aimed at dealing with point, signal and accessory control and eliminating what could be serious amounts of wiring from under and around a layout.

In this respect, it is more akin to the Lenz LW150, but that ability is I believe, also the core ability of the Mini Panel and other similar devices.

When announced during the presentation at Ally Pally, Richard Johnson (DCC Concepts) spoke purely about the ability to add traditional mimic or switch panels, point lever frames and even converting stud and probe panels to DCC.

 

A new module has recently appeared in the list of forthcoming Cobalt Alpha range of products, the Cobalt Alpha Commander - Automated Sequence Controller.

There's no information about this module, but it could be something designed to add functionality like macros for routes or automatic operation; but at the listed price looks to be far too expensive, unless there's some magic ingredient included.

 

The circle of abilities and functionality may not be completed though, as there is also a full DCC Concepts DCC system in development.

 

 

 

   

[tender]

Cobalt Alpha @$79 + Commander @ $279, i'll stick with a mini-panel at £35.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Cobalt Alpha @$79 + Commander @ $279, i'll stick with a mini-panel at £35.

 

If you're using an NCE system and all you want is a mimic panel, or similar control of points from traditional switches or buttons, all operating via DCC; then the Mini panel is tremendous value in only costing between £33 and £38 (depending where you buy from).

The Cobalt Alpha will do the same without any additional modules, but with fewer connections. It's currently being advertised for £51 at a well know emporium in Sheffield.

 

IF you choose to make use of the macro features, the Mini Panel is a no-brainer IMHO and I'm surprised not many NCE users are talking about using it?

 

Once you move away from NCE, there are only a few equivalent modules available (without the macro features), but they are specific to particular DCC brands and generally cost a lot more.

Many brands of DCC cannot make use of such modules, as they don't exist.

I think this is where the Cobalt Alpha may be a viable option.

 

It will be interesting to find out what that Cobalt Alpha Commander actually does for £135 (m.r.p.).

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Some photos of the Alpha Central have emerged....

 

 

 

[ChrisG]

There is a double page advert in Hornby Magazine 106 (April 2016) which does little to demystify the various Alpha products and steers clear of quoting any prices.

 

I was considering using the Alpha system on my layout and read all the manuals many months ago, as well as having a detailed conversation with DCC Concepts via e-mail, before concluding the small one-off saving in the time to wire the layout was not worth the huge cost of buying the various boxes I would need. I've now installed the point motors in the traditional way, some weeks before DCC Concepts got the product on the market.

 

Frankly, the advert in Hornby Magazine is baffling. The PDFs on the Internet are also baffling (and who chose blue print on blue background?). I defy anyone, on the basis of reading the two pages in Hornby magazine, to have any clue as to why they might want such equipment and how they would expect to benefit from it, let alone how much they would have to invest in it.

 

It may be a great product for some people but it's so badly marketed it's going to find it difficult to find and reach its market.

 

Chris Gardner

Alton

Hampshire

[Mallard60022]

There is a double page advert in Hornby Magazine 106 (April 2016) which does little to demystify the various Alpha products and steers clear of quoting any prices.

 

I was considering using the Alpha system on my layout and read all the manuals many months ago, as well as having a detailed conversation with DCC Concepts via e-mail, before concluding the small one-off saving in the time to wire the layout was not worth the huge cost of buying the various boxes I would need. I've now installed the point motors in the traditional way, some weeks before DCC Concepts got the product on the market.

 

Frankly, the advert in Hornby Magazine is baffling. The PDFs on the Internet are also baffling (and who chose blue print on blue background?). I defy anyone, on the basis of reading the two pages in Hornby magazine, to have any clue as to why they might want such equipment and how they would expect to benefit from it, let alone how much they would have to invest in it.

 

It may be a great product for some people but it's so badly marketed it's going to find it difficult to find and reach its market.

 

Chris Gardner

Alton

Hampshire

I phoned Gaugemaster last year to ask about certain DCC C products (I fancied the module that would do 16 points switching  or something similar). Very knowledgeable and helpful if you want to ask about suitability/compatibility etc..

Phil

[two tone green]

Don't rush into buying the Alpha unit before doing your homework.

 

As an ECoS user there are far more bits you need to get it to work and the paperwork published by DCC Concepts is misleading. Don't be fooled by it works with sniffer ports.

 

It may well do but what is missing is the bit you need to buy an additional box at over £100 as well.

 

The ESU ECoS interface as well is not just around the corner with regards a release date either.

 

If you want to interface say point levers so you have mechanical levers interfaced with your ECoS use the 16 input ECoS Detector Standard. £63 all in and is a lot cheaper than the DCC Concepts Alpha system.

 

ESU 16 inputs / 16 levers £63.

 

DCC Concepts 12 inputs / 12 levers, minimum £160.

 

Slight difference.

[Oakydoke]

When first announced, DCC Concepts gave the impression that the Alpha and Alpha Central could be simply connected to any DCC system's throttle bus (directly with NCE and with appropriate protocol converters for other systems).

The impression I got was that the Alpha Box smart booster would just be an optional extra for creating a dedicated accessory bus, or as a third party extra booster option.

This turns out not to be the case and other than with an NCE system, the Alpha relies on having the Alpha Box and sniffing the DCC track outputs of the system it's attached to.

[Mick Bonwick]

I defy anyone, on the basis of reading the two pages in Hornby magazine, to have any clue as to why they might want such equipment and how they would expect to benefit from it, let alone how much they would have to invest in it.

 

 

 

Because it's easy to use, of course! ;-)

[two tone green]

Here is a quick little video I did today to show the nice DCC Concept Point Levers controlling a point via my ESU ECoS and the ESU ECoS Detector Standard.
 
No need for other expensive options. The interface is built in for use with the ECoS, 16 inputs so it can control sixteen signals, points whatever you want. Build a nice control panel and add push button, on off switches etc.  
 
I want to use the levers for points and signals so it makes sense for me as a ECoS user to go down this road.
 
Current price or even less, £63.
 
Before anyone asks, no you don't need RR&Co to make it work. Its all a stand alone set up.

 

Sound not brilliant but I am sure you can see what is going on.

[spackz]

Good Evening,

 

Im thinking, with a bit more research in getting an NCE Powercab and pairing it with this alpha equipment. The advert in Hornby Magazine shows a power supply I cannot find it on Dcc Concepts or any other website, just wondering on price and where to buy really.

 

Thanks for any replies.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....Im thinking, with a bit more research in getting an NCE Powercab and pairing it with this alpha equipment......

 

 

You could just use NCE's own Mini Panel with the PowerCab, instead.