DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha

[ChrisG]

I agree with you Chris.  I suspect it's because DCC Concepts are overloaded (press button and hold for 3 seconds to reset  ), what with simultaneously developing and releasing Alpha products, and moving DCC Concepts' head office to the UK (see announcement on Gaugemaster web site). 

 

The video is basically the same as what's in the Cobalt Alpha user manual.  I've decided that confusion will reign until the autumn when all will suddenly become clearer!  

 

Richard

 

 

Going back over your earlier post, it became fairly clear to me that the real selling point of Alpha is that it means you can get the benefit of DCC (i.e. simplification of the wiring) whilst  being able to control your signals and turnouts from a switchboard or lever frame, with a mimic board if you want it. Somehow this fairly simple USP does not come across quickly and clearly  from the plethora of marketing material, whilst the "simple as Lego" slogan is just disingenuous. 

 

Chris

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....the real selling point of Alpha is that it means you can get the benefit of DCC (i.e. simplification of the wiring) whilst  being able to control your signals and turnouts from a switchboard or lever frame, with a mimic board if you want it. .....

 

To be fair Chris, it isn't a new thing and that facility has been available for a long time, but only for use with a limited number of DCC systems.

There have been modules for LocoNet based systems and for NCE, for a long time and more recently for Lenz.

 

I initially thought that the USP for the DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha, was supposed to be its universality; that operation from switchboard, lever frame and mimic panel would be available for any DCC system and not just a limited few brands.

What wasn't made clear at the outset was the need for the Alpha Box for all except NCE (and Roco?), in order for it to work with every DCC system.

 

In the case of the dedicated modules designed for use with NCE (Mini Panel), Lenz (LW150) and LocoNet systems (CML DTM30), they are simply plugged in just like extra throttles on the respective (Cab, XpressNet, LocoNet) Command buses and don't need to interface through an extra Booster box.

 

 

 

.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Ron Ron Ron

[Philately]

Going back over your earlier post, it became fairly clear to me that the real selling point of Alpha is that it means you can get the benefit of DCC (i.e. simplification of the wiring) whilst  being able to control your signals and turnouts from a switchboard or lever frame, with a mimic board if you want it. Somehow this fairly simple USP does not come across quickly and clearly  from the plethora of marketing material, whilst the "simple as Lego" slogan is just disingenuous. 

 

Chris

Having used my Prodigy2 for all control up until recently, I find it's much better to have points and signals controlled separately. Much of DCC Concepts' paperwork is very good; sadly, the Cobalt Alpha blurb is an exception, but I'm pleased with the kit itself. I do wonder whether yet-to-be-announced goodies will alter our perceptions if/when they eventually arrive, and how far preoccupation on the part of the"blurbists" with the unannounced has affected what they publish. It's a very short step from Cobalt Alpha to a full DCC system...

 

Richard

[Ron Ron Ron]

........It's a very short step from Cobalt Alpha to a full DCC system...

 

 

Indeed, but it's no secret.

DCC Concepts have said for quite a long time that they're working on their own DCC system.......

 

DCC Concepts Exclusive Control System.

 

Now they have the Alpha Box smart booster, all that is needed is a Command Station and user interface - i.e. Throttles etc.

 

..

[Philately]

In fairness to DCC Concepts, I.'ve just made seen their ad in BRM and it's fine by me.

[devondynosoar118]

Having recently resurrected my NCE power cab and considering sorting out my control system for Kingsbridge once and for all, I saw this and thought it might offer a solution. I have one or two questions that I couldn't see fully answered in the rest if the thread.

I have 14 points to control, all wired with electro frog and Seep solenoids with switching. I got totally stuck trying to work out a control panel that I could wire, was logical and had a simple plug/unplug. I am not very bright, so wanted a solution that didn't involve a million wires.

My questions, in the light of that are-

1- What does the DCC concepts product offer me that the NCE mini panel doesn't?

2- Where do either of those products go, under the baseboard or in the control panel?

3- If they are in the control panel is it just a matter of running an RJ 11 lead of the correct pattern into the spare cab slot on the NCE board that you get with the powercab?

4- My layout is N guage, with a max of 2 locos moving at any time, will I need a booster?

 

I should also echo other people's thoughts on the information available from the manufacturer, I found it hard to read and not particularly enlightening. Can't seem to fault the quality of the actual item and it's great they are now in the UK.

[Nigelcliffe]

Having recently resurrected my NCE power cab and considering sorting out my control system for Kingsbridge once and for all, I saw this and thought it might offer a solution. I have one or two questions that I couldn't see fully answered in the rest if the thread.

I have 14 points to control, all wired with electro frog and Seep solenoids with switching. I got totally stuck trying to work out a control panel that I could wire, was logical and had a simple plug/unplug. I am not very bright, so wanted a solution that didn't involve a million wires.

My questions, in the light of that are-

1- What does the DCC concepts product offer me that the NCE mini panel doesn't?

 

My view, for fourteen turnouts, the MiniPanel is the better value option. The Mini Panel will just handle your requirements, it has 30 channels, and for 14 turnouts arranged in the simplest manner, you need 28 channels (28 push buttons).

 

Regardless of decision between Alpha and MiniPanel, you will also need decoders for the Seep motors to operate. The panel is only one side of the requirements.    So, this isn't a cheap arrangement no matter which approach is chosen. 

 

2- Where do either of those products go, under the baseboard or in the control panel?

3- If they are in the control panel is it just a matter of running an RJ 11 lead of the correct pattern into the spare cab slot on the NCE board that you get with the powercab?

 

Basically yes, either will be another "cab" device in NCE terms.

 

 

4- My layout is N guage, with a max of 2 locos moving at any time, will I need a booster?

 

Not needed to run the locos. Whether you need more power for the turnout motors depends on the accessory decoders chosen. I'd be looking for accessory decoders which have an external power supply, so they place minimal load on the DCC output - if nothing else, power supplies for the decoders are far cheaper than DCC Boosters !

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just to add to Nigel's reply...
 

1- What does the DCC concepts product offer me that the NCE mini panel doesn't?

 
As Nigel says, for your simple PowerCab arrangement, the Mini Panel is cost effective and a simple plug in.
The Mini Panel also allows you to set routes and to set up some automatic triggered events/routines.
 
The Cobalt Alpha has slightly more flexibility in what switch types can be used on the panel (e.g. it even allows stud and probe to be used).
As far as I can tell, it doesn't allow routes to be programmed and there is another expensive module listed on the web site (Cobalt Alpha Commander - Automated Sequence Controller) which might be intended for this purpose?????
 
If intending to create a dedicated Accessory Bus, powered by its own Booster, to run the accessory decoders and any other devices on the layout, the Alpha could be used along with the Alpha Box, as opposed to the upgrade route you'd have to follow to  do the same with all NCE kit.
With your relatively simple layout requirements, it's debatable that you need to go down the Accessory Bus route though and would probably be better following Nigel's suggestion to power the accessory decoders separately and only take the command signals from the DCC Track Bus.

 

2- Where do either of those products go, under the baseboard or in the control panel?
3- If they are in the control panel is it just a matter of running an RJ 11 lead of the correct pattern into the spare cab slot on the NCE board that you get with the power cab?

 
As Nigel says, with an NCE system, they operate just like another Cab/Throttle.
Just plug in.
 
Mini Panel or Alpha would normally be installed underneath, or close to the mimic or switch control panel (or lever frame).
Buttons, Switches, Levers, Stud & Probe or whatever are connected to the module with short cables/wires.
With a bit of care, you could have nice and tidy wiring under the panel with just the single output lead to connect to the DCC system, or to the Alpha Box if using that option.

 

4- My layout is N guage, with a max of 2 locos moving at any time, will I need a booster?

Not answering your question directly, but as a general comment; if a decision is made to add a Booster, either to add another (track) Power District, or to run a separate Accessory Bus, then in the case of using an NCE system, it appears that choosing either the Mini Panel or the Alpha will not tie you in to using a Booster from the respective brands.



.

[devondynosoar118]

Thank you both very much for answering my questions. I saw a solenoid specific decoder for solenoids also from DCC concepts, I have also used the NCE ones on Squeezebelly very successfully. Currently none of the solenoids are powered by the bus (obviously) and I did the main wiring about 5 years ago and don't have a burning desire to revise it, I will have to price up the point decoders. Any recommendations?

I have numerous regulated power supplies to power the control side..

The panel will be no problem, I have nearly everything I need and I have all the responses from the last time I tried to grasp the particular nettle so I can get on with that.

Kris helped group my points for me so I am planning on setting the mini panel to do several points at a time, as there's only two platform faces and the run around loop, plus yard, all is which will be better set up with one button to set routes. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

It seems that for NCE users the Alpha is completely unnecessary!

Edited April 12, 2016 by devondynosoar118

[Ron Ron Ron]

More information has been released about the Alpha Mimic.

 

 

Alpha-MIMIC

 

Features:

• Accurately reflects DCC decoder positions no matter how they are changed (Command from Alpha, DCC System, Computer OR route macro or software)
•  
• ZERO soldering and cutting of wire + Specially designed push fit LEDs
•  
• Pack = Mimic + 24x LEDs. Connects to any track bus with just 2 wires.
•  
• 100% usable with ALL DCC Controller brands with NO interfaces.
•  
• Red, Green or Red + Green LEDs available.
• Spare 24x LED packs available.
• Outputs can handle many LEDs - link with plug and play adapters...

 

 

.

[arff999]

just one thing on the mini panel, ever though it is good when used with a power cab and i'm not sure if it was said before to set up the mini panel you need a separate hand set as it has to be plugged in to the device and the power cab one cant be removed 

 

john 

[jaym481]

So, let me see if I have this correct.

 

I'd like the points to be DCC controlled, but not using the controller, so using switches or levers or something like an analogue panel. If I was starting from scratch I would need the following"

The Cobalt Alpha main bord

Switches (what's the diff between the DCC Concepts digital and analogue switch sets?)

LEDs for the mimic panel (if I don't use the DCC Concepts LED buttons)

Decoders for the point motors

 

My DCC systems are NCE power Cab and Roco Z21. The layout is likely to grow some, and coach lighting and sound may mean I should use a separate accessory bus for poing motors, or at least a booster. Do I need anything to connect the Z21?

[Retro_man]

So, let me see if I have this correct.

 

I'd like the points to be DCC controlled, but not using the controller, so using switches or levers or something like an analogue panel. If I was starting from scratch I would need the following"

The Cobalt Alpha main bord

Switches (what's the diff between the DCC Concepts digital and analogue switch sets?)

LEDs for the mimic panel (if I don't use the DCC Concepts LED buttons)

Decoders for the point motors

 

My DCC systems are NCE power Cab and Roco Z21. The layout is likely to grow some, and coach lighting and sound may mean I should use a separate accessory bus for poing motors, or at least a booster. Do I need anything to connect the Z21?

 

If you were starting from scratch couldn't you use the Cobalt Ip Digital motors? Only GBP3 more expensive than the Cobalt Ip Analogue version and includes the decoder..

[jaym481]

If you were starting from scratch couldn't you use the Cobalt Ip Digital motors? Only GBP3 more expensive than the Cobalt Ip Analogue version and includes the decoder..

 

I actually ended up doing that. It looked like an easier proposition for wiring. 

[tender]

More information has been released about the Alpha Mimic.

 

 

Alpha-MIMIC

 

Features:

• Accurately reflects DCC decoder positions no matter how they are changed (Command from Alpha, DCC System, Computer OR route macro or software)
•  
• ZERO soldering and cutting of wire + Specially designed push fit LEDs
•  
• Pack = Mimic + 24x LEDs. Connects to any track bus with just 2 wires.
•  
• 100% usable with ALL DCC Controller brands with NO interfaces.
•  
• Red, Green or Red + Green LEDs available.
• Spare 24x LED packs available.
• Outputs can handle many LEDs - link with plug and play adapters...

 

 

.

 

 

Saw the DCC Concepts Advert for this product in one of the Mags and it appears to be available from Gaugemaster but can't find any info/manual on the DCC Concepts Website - Searching for Mimic returns 'no results'

 

There's also supposed to be a free software package available to help design your Mimic Panel.

 

Anybody have a link to the manual or software?

[Kiwi]

Saw the DCC Concepts Advert for this product in one of the Mags and it appears to be available from Gaugemaster but can't find any info/manual on the DCC Concepts Website - Searching for Mimic returns 'no results'

 

There's also supposed to be a free software package available to help design your Mimic Panel.

 

Anybody have a link to the manual or software?

A slightly off-the-wall idea, I know, but have you thought of asking DCC Concepts?

[tender]

A slightly off-the-wall idea, I know, but have you thought of asking DCC Concepts?

Yes, done that but still waiting for reply, but then again it's the weekend so don't expect a response until Monday at the earliest.

Just thought someone here might have already enquired or know where the info is.

Edited September 3, 2016 by tender

[tender]

Had a reply from Peter Higgins of DCC concepts including two attachments. One for the manual and the other a word document containing graphic elements to help with Mimic panel design. Apparently their website is in the process of being updated.

[Ron Ron Ron]

......but can't find any info/manual on the DCC Concepts Website.....

 

.....Apparently their website is in the process of being updated.

 

 

The web site has been very static for several months, with very little, if any, updates.

Once the relocation to Yorkshire is complete and up and running, hopefully the new web site will follow shortly after.

 

 

.

[tender]

Once the relocation to Yorkshire is complete

 

 

.

Have i missed something?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Have i missed something?

 

 

Obviously.

 

They announced a relocation of the bulk of their business operation to Settle, back in March this year.

It has been mentioned and discussed several times on this forum and on others, as well as in at least one or two of the modelling mags.

 

I understand there'll be a revamped, or new web site opening, once the move is complete and they're open for business.

 

 

 

.

[tender]

Obviously.

 

They announced a relocation of the bulk of their business operation to Settle, back in March this year.

It has been mentioned and discussed several times on this forum and on others, as well as in at least one or two of the modelling mags.

 

I understand there'll be a revamped, or new web site opening, once the move is complete and they're open for business.

 

 

 

.

Thanks for that. Must admit, I've been out of touch for most of the summer with just the occasional look in. Stopped buying mags on a regular basis as well.

Now the winters not far off should get some more modelling done.

(Edit)

Forgot to mention, Alpha Mimic arrived today, hope to get the panel built before the Blackpool exhibition next week. Will post progress on layout thread 'Camel Quay'

Edited September 6, 2016 by tender

[jaym481]

Looking forward to your impressions of the Mimic.

[tender]

Looking forward to your impressions of the Mimic.

As the saying goes 'does just as it says on the tin' or package in this case.

Follow link to see how I used it.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67862-camel-quay-a-north-cornwall-inspired-layout-in-4mm/?p=2429370

 

Only two points to note.

1. In a domestic room with normal lighting I found the LEDs (green in my case) are a bit bright, but we're OK in the exhibition hall.

2. I wanted to use one bi-colour (red/green) led for my application (semaphore signal) along with the green LEDs (route) but these are not available separately, you have to buy an 'add on' pack of another 24 LEDs and various adaptors which ups the cost considerably.

[newbryford]

The new Alpha "sniffer" DCD-SNX is about to hit the shops. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/alpha-sniffer/

It's a 1 amp DCC driver primarily designed to control a separate DCC accessory bus, even if the trains are controlled by DC.

 

Looks like an ideal solution to over-ride my existing Lenz controlled pointwork. (Changing points via a Lenz handset isn't particularly efficient on a large layout)

 

Cheers,

Mick