7mm and larger Modelling Down Under - Layouts & Modelling projects

[hartleymartin]

The Century Models 19 class that I owned for several years (now sold-on) had the motor mounted vertically in the firebox driving the rear axle. From memory it was a Mashima 1833 running a 40:1 gearbox. At about 14 volts it did a scale 30 miles per hour (walking pace for us 12" to the foot people) If I were ever to build one, I'd probably fit a flywheel - use an 1824 motor if necessary - and I would use a DCC chip with stay-alive capacitors. The DCC chip that I used in my 19 was marketed for N scale, and despite having only 6-wheel pick-up it ran well. Before the advent of the Stay Alive/Keep Alive feature on DCC chips, I would have fitted pickups on the tender, but I'm no longer convinced that this is necessary.

[Ross34]

Love the C38 Chris.

 

Nearly as nice as an SAR 520 ..

 

I model the SAR in HO.. in the UK - lots of scratch-building required!

[SMR CHRIS]

The Century Models 19 class that I owned for several years (now sold-on) had the motor mounted vertically in the firebox driving the rear axle. From memory it was a Mashima 1833 running a 40:1 gearbox. At about 14 volts it did a scale 30 miles per hour (walking pace for us 12" to the foot people) If I were ever to build one, I'd probably fit a flywheel - use an 1824 motor if necessary - and I would use a DCC chip with stay-alive capacitors. The DCC chip that I used in my 19 was marketed for N scale, and despite having only 6-wheel pick-up it ran well. Before the advent of the Stay Alive/Keep Alive feature on DCC chips, I would have fitted pickups on the tender, but I'm no longer convinced that this is necessary.

 

 

I'm going to look at an ABC motor gear box combo http://www.abcgears.co.uk/html/3_stage.html

And then to choose a motor they have a good list with all the specs http://www.abcgears.co.uk/html/motor_information.html

 

Re pickups for DCC, even with keep alive's for good control you still need good continuity and the more pick ups = better signal transfer

A DCC decoder with keep alive, if looses track power the KA keeps the decoder powered but when it looses track power it also looses the DCC signal, so will just keep going at the last received packet of info ie speed step, basically you have lost control until it gains contact again or depletes the reserve from the compacitor bank.

With all my loco DCC conversions, I have fitted pickups to all main wheels plus all tender wheels, with the 20 class tank it has the driving wheels and the rear bogie fitted with pickups. The KA is really just an insurance policy for dirty track or a odd problem like on a club layout when some one shorts out the layout accidentally your loco dosn't stop instantly and have to restart if the problem is cleared quickly your still going normally no sound restart etc. one place a KA is very handy is in 0-4-0 locos with short wheel bases if someone uses dead frogs for instance you may get a complete loose of track power/ DCC packet info as you cross the frog

 

My little Tower models Andrew Barkley tank runs really nicely with a tcs KA decoder and will cross a long dead frog without an issue you just loose control for the length of time it crosses the frog. However I don't have that problem on my layouts as I use Frog juicers now for fool proof switching of frogs no "shorts" if someone runs through a incorrectly aligned point, you may have noticed that if using the 49class on Moonan flat you could trail through the points with out having to change them with no shorting issues. I don't tend to try with the small bogie fitted steamers as the bogies are very light the bigger streamers 35,36,38 etc have no issues and will push the lightly Spring switch rails with Tortis Motors used with the long light actuator rod set to just hold the blades across.

 

 

 

 

Love the C38 Chris.

 

Nearly as nice as an SAR 520 ..

 

I model the SAR in HO.. in the UK - lots of scratch-building required!

Ross thanks but I'm back to my old 38s at the moment as the Flash New Brass ones have gone back to the manufacture fingers crossed won't be gone to long and the green 3805 hopefully fingers crossed they have a spare to replace it with as it had some major issues.

 

My old "Fox O gauge house kits" C38's are unstoppable whilst they don't have the refinements of the brass model they look the part on the layout

 

Re your SAR modelling I have always liked the SAR esp the big steamers, you are in the dawn of a new era at the moment with SAR HO modelling, I have noticed, as you have several manufactures releasing new models both Kit and RTR with I note shrike models doing a RTR steam loco soon of the RX class http://www.shrike-models.com/414134027

Plus some nice models being done by Orient express models http://www.orientexpressmodels.com.au/OER/index.htm

[robertc]

ProType 19 class was released very early 70's I think. if my memory serves me well, I saw the molds under construction at their North Sydney shop in 69.

 

I was a member of the ProType model railway club and there was to be a layout built in the basement under the shop. I don't know if it happened as I moved to Canberra at the end of that year. 

 

regards

 Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

ProType 19 class was released very early 70's I think. if my memory serves me well, I saw the molds under construction at their North Sydney shop in 69.

 

I was a member of the ProType model railway club and there was to be a layout built in the basement under the shop. I don't know if it happened as I moved to Canberra at the end of that year.

 

regards

Bob

Thanks Bob thought it was at least as old as me I'm 74 vintage but I'm prematurely worn out now, I think the old pro type 19 will out last me as I always lubed the gear box regualy, that seemed to be a issue with others due to very soft brass used for the gears, I saw at the time others having issues.

So generally limiting it to yard duty and not doing 80ft of main line on a regular basis probably helped.

We wore the plating off my brass 55 class wheels, as it was used as the main line goods loco generaly on most opperating sessions.

I think chosen by just about every operator I'm guessing due to the nice look of the southern valve gear over other steam and diesels.

I usualy had at least 35 locos on the layout for them to choose. And a display case full with another 15or so to choose, But the 55 was the one.

I guess It would see the 1in40 grade at least twice a session. Plus yard shunting probably was doing 200ft most weeks for 10 years.

If I did the freight turn in a session I would put a dirty black 38, 3827on it as I modelled transition era could justify it and I just like C38s as people may have guessed. Have 4 HO and 4 O scale ones.

 

One good thing with not having a lot of space at the moment is I'm not going to ware out any of my O scale locos on a small point to point railway. Most likely thing to wear are the buffer whilst shunting and I don't think that will be an issue.

Edited November 9, 2015 by SMR CHRIS

[robertc]

The monkey motion on the 55 certainly adds to the interest.

Worn out motors and gears are a fact of life on my layouts. A couple of my Chinese HO diesels have had replacement motors and the old Lima ones had replacement brushes; so far the only replacements in O gauge have been gears due to a vital screw coming loose and me snoozing while they ground their way around the layout  :>)

 

I will have a bedroom spare probably in the not too distant future. I have decided it is not big enough for any O gauge layout that would satisfy me so my remaining HO stock might get a chance to wear out again.

regards

Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

A extra CPH Rail Motor No13 has been allocated to Muswellbrook depot for use on the Moonan Flat branch and was caught by the local photographer as it made its morning arrival on a trial run with regular Moonan Flat CPHNo11

No13 is newly out shopped with Masonite siding over the orignal panels

rumours have it a 3 car lash up trial, will take place on the afternoon run with RM 18 from the Merriwah branch in preparations for tourist season keep an eye out for the photos if the local train buff is around.

 

[SMR CHRIS]

It did happen a 3 up CPH to Moonan flat.

CPH 11-13-18

 

As you may guess it's train night on the central coast and a visiting CPH

[hartleymartin]

The local gunzel would have fainted from the excitement!

 

I'm still thinking that I may scratch-build one of these at a future date. Probably masonite-sides in the Post 1954 all-over Indian Red scheme.

[hartleymartin]

Of course, if you've got enough traffic to multiple-unit 3 railmotors, it begs the question why they have not just sent a locomotive with a couple of dog-box or end-platform carriages to take the anticipated load.

[SMR CHRIS]

Of course, if you've got enough traffic to multiple-unit 3 railmotors, it begs the question why they have not just sent a locomotive with a couple of dog-box or end-platform carriages to take the anticipated load.

Modernisation I think it's called or its comming up to government election time and the pollies are trying to make the locals think they have got something new when last election it was promised to have a better cleaner service so token effort.

What they don't realise yet if the loco hauled service goes they loose the nice old first class coach that was bumped to branch service from the mainline as it aged for the short backed uncomfortable squeeze 2 + 3 seating in a CPH.

[SMR CHRIS]

We had a top night running trains and we finished with a buffet of delights for supper.

The shunting puzzle that is "Moonan Flat" was attempted by a few some just picked it up others struggle to work out how to get that last wagon into the train.

Interesting how 2 points and a traverser can occupy one for so long shunting I think 5 or 6 trains made the return trip with shunting and Railmotors in between over a 3 hour period.

 

David takes "control" ( use that term loosely) of 2016 as Roy supervised

Also interesting is the acceptance of running a model loco just like a real loco having to apply the brakes to stop and momentum etc just like a real train.

Open the throttle a little and the loco will creep away with the cylinder cocks hissing be heavy handed and the locos chuff away loudly and just like a real loco, then close the throttle and it's not instant off a certain amount a momentum is set to make it behave as a real loco would.

This is one of the parts of DCC that interests me it is a chalange to stop in the right place not just turn the knob from full to stop in an instant you can see the DC users don't understand even after having it explained they will start turning the knob the loco started to move but if I was on DC control just turn it up and it will get faster instantly not with the preprogrammed Acceleration, inertia and momentum when you watch them you will offen see the throttle woun all the way to full. Next you see them grabbing the train to stop it from hitting the stops.

 

As I said It's something I like as a bit of a chalange and it also adds a bit more realism to what we model having driven steam Locomotives, part of the driving is to get the feel of a loco and its characteristics and I try to replicate some of that with the use of DCC. If it wasn't for the Sound and character you can add to a loco, I would have stuck with DC control. I have several momentum / brake control DC controllers that I have been using for well over 30 years that do a similar thing just without the sound effects to go with it but have to admit that most operators would turn to direct control mode on those DC when we would have opperating session. May be its just me but others must like momentum control or companys wouldn't make the controllers.

 

Would be interested in others thoughts on this area of control via DCC

 

Some more photos of shunting at Moonan Flat

With loco 2531 in charge

 

RM's 11-13 and 18

Edited November 12, 2015 by SMR CHRIS

[Simond]

Chris

 

I agree with your thoughts on momentum - I think it adds considerably to the realism of the movement of the train, as well as to the challenge (and enjoyment) of driving it.

 

On your ralilcars, forgive the "pommie" question but what are the black things above the driver's windows?  I'm assuming they aren't some weird type of air brake, they don't look (to me at any rate) like radiators, and I therefore conclude they are able to fold down to keep the local large fauna outside the cab.  Some kind of "roo-guard"?  Presumably for night trips?

 

nice models, btw!!

best

Simon

[hartleymartin]

They're the radiators.

 

Fun fact: The radiators and the driving axle are actually located on the no.2 end of the railmotor - technically the rear! But they are so distinctive, that people generally consider this to be the front.

 

CPH Railmotors: http://www.railmotorsociety.org.au/rm/rm_0003_frame.htm

"Radiators were mounted under the floor for cooling the engine and these were positioned along the outer side of he vehicle to obtain the best results. A fan was fitted to force air through the radiators and this system was arranged to obtain equal degrees of cooling for either direction of travel.

 

The location of the radiators under the side of the vehicles proved to be unreliable as they easily became clogged with grass and dirt on the country branches over which they predominantly worked. As the only cooling medium was natural air circulation, the radiators were relocated to the roof at the No.2 end to provide greater cooling as more powerful petrol and diesel engines were fitted. A hand-operated pump supplied make-up water from a storage tank in the Guard's compartment to replenish water lost from the radiators."

 

The CPH Railmotors did look rather different when originally built. The original style bogies gave it a rather spindly light-legged appearance:

Edited November 12, 2015 by hartleymartin

[SMR CHRIS]

Chris

 

I agree with your thoughts on momentum - I think it adds considerably to the realism of the movement of the train, as well as to the challenge (and enjoyment) of driving it.

 

On your ralilcars, forgive the "pommie" question but what are the black things above the driver's windows? I'm assuming they aren't some weird type of air brake, they don't look (to me at any rate) like radiators, and I therefore conclude they are able to fold down to keep the local large fauna outside the cab. Some kind of "roo-guard"? Presumably for night trips?

 

nice models, btw!!

best

Simon

Thanks Simon

As Marty has said they are the cooling Radiators with the supply piping across the roof from the center of the car and down to the motor below the floor.

Marty has done the historical info re the Radiators and posted

So here is a close up of the models radiators

The RM's were usually arranged , when in multiple with the radiators all at the same end for maximum cooling effectiveness as in hot rural areas the trailing unit would run hotter if arranged Radiator to Radiator.

Edited November 12, 2015 by SMR CHRIS

[hartleymartin]

Rural New South Wales can have some quite unforgiving extremes. It is possible for it to be 40-something degrees during the day and then only 10 degrees during the night. If the Antarctic Southerly winds start to below it can drop below zero, yes, even if there was a top temperature of 40-something degrees that day! Basically the geography is such that a Westerly wind is hot and dry, winds from the East to South-East are cool, moist winds, and from the South come from the Antarctic and are bloody freezing!

[hartleymartin]

If you want to know how truly crazy our weather can be, look at this news report: 2 years ago, it snowed at the start of Summer (December 6th - Feast of St Nicholas - how appropriate!) Late November and Early December typically see top temperatures of anything form 25 to 35 degrees.

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/snow-falling-in-australia-in-summer-that-is-all/story-e6frflp0-1226775945701

[SMR CHRIS]

Just for Marty after the excitement of 3 CPH units things returned to normal, when the loco hauled Local arrived later in the day.

Behind a 32 class.

[SMR CHRIS]

Rural New South Wales can have some quite unforgiving extremes. It is possible for it to be 40-something degrees during the day and then only 10 degrees during the night. If the Antarctic Southerly winds start to below it can drop below zero, yes, even if there was a top temperature of 40-something degrees that day! Basically the geography is such that a Westerly wind is hot and dry, winds from the East to South-East are cool, moist winds, and from the South come from the Antarctic and are bloody freezing!

 

So right Martin

Just up the road from the real location of Moonan Flat I took these photos this year that's 2 years running it has snowed up above the flats .

This is Australia. Not all Sunshine, day in day out as the tourist Adds say

We do have some extremes.

At the other end of the extremes, A couple of years ago we were up in the gulf country and for several days the temp didn't get below mid 30'c topping in the high 40's with 48'c for most of the day.

 

[Simond]

thanks guys

 

the later, close up photos look a lot more like radiators.  As I typed it, I thought... "you know, he'll be right *****d off if they are radiators and I say they don't look like..."

 

and I completely sympathise with the weather, I have to go to Scotland on business regularly, and it's almost exactly the same, as in four seasons in a day, regularly.  They probably don't get so much of the 40 C stuff to be fair.  (ish)

 

we travelled to Aus some 20 years ago for a holiday, happily, no snow, but we had most everything else.  And then a year or two later, watching the news and they were talking about rains on the Gold Coast, and they showed a town, I think it might have been Maryborough, under water, and I'm calling MrsD saying, "that's the supermarket we went to on the way to Fraser island, and where I parked is under 2 metres of water!", so yes, I know you seem to get a bit more than 24 hours's worth of weather some days!

 

 

best

Simon

[SMR CHRIS]

Simon it is all good

I hope you enjoyed your visit Down under.

Funny how you see something on TV and have an instant I've been there moment.

I occasionally see it when watching UK TV series and I see a scene that I instantly recognise.

And for me that goes back to 1981 as a 7 year old and in some places a lot has changed in others only the modern cars date it.

 

Re the DCC momentum etc

Glad it not only me that finds that part of the hobby interesting.

On one of my diesels it is set up with vidulance control if you don't tap the function that resets it regualy the warning buzzer goes if you ignore that it goes into emergency brake with a loud brake graunch and comes to a stop with prototype momentum of course.

 

Some more photos from from last nights Running session with the loco hauled passanger service.

3213 has cut off the train

Fireman has just serviced his loco

Some "Wooly" locals on the wrong side of the fence watch the train pass

[robertc]

Sounds like you had a fun night Chris.

I do like the multi coloured stars in the night sky... a thoughtful touch :>)

 

CPH's often ran in long rakes along with the trailers. Do you intend to stop at two?

 

I'm with the direct control brigade these days, my thumb provides the inertia :>)

 

regards

 Bob

Edited November 13, 2015 by robertc

[SMR CHRIS]

Sounds like you had a fun night Chris.

I do the multi coloured stars in the night sky... a thoughtful touch :>)

 

CPH's often ran in long rakes along with the trailers. Do you intend to stop at two?

 

I'm with the direct control brigade these days, my thumb provides the inertia :>)

 

regards

Bob

Thanks Bob we had a good night was raining lightly out side but

Yes the back deck model train area is all set up again after 6 months with leaky roof and water damage not impressed with my insurance Co, now have new carpet, one of the Railways set up (Moonan Flat) with curtins and a cover to Keep everything out of the sun and dust free.

As the sun goes down the twinkly lights come on, Hay we Train Buffs Know how to party we've got a flat screen on the wall to watch "dirty Movies" sorry movies of 1950-70 NSWGR with dirty black and green steam locos.

 

No more CPH's for me unless another is donated.

But why not run3 up when they are available

One of the guys last night commented that our the local group is gradually migrating to O scale as the owner of CPH 18 is a recent convert although he is as much a "Rubber Gauger" as I am and 2 of the others

are doing some O narrow gauge as well.

I'm doing my best to get others to see the light shining from the dark side of the Moon- an O scale.

 

Re the inertia my thumb also supplies it.

I just choose it by pressing a button to increase or decrease as desired whilst treating the throttle knob like a steam loco regulator ( well its programmed that way) but is only ever 4 key strokes way if any one wants to drive a loco in conventional throttle mode.

 

Link to a photo of the LVR's tour recently with 3 CPH's

https://flic.kr/p/AEyq2U

Edited November 13, 2015 by SMR CHRIS

[hartleymartin]

Funny how you recognise locations like that. I bought lunch at Marks and Spencers on the ground floor of a hospital across the Thames from the Houses of Parliament in Long back in 2008. A couple of years later I watched an episode of Dr Who and realised that was the place where The Doctor met Martha Jones and the whole kerfuffle with the Jadoon took place. Yes, I'll admit that I'm nerdy. Still looking for a suitably-sized 1950s police box to hide on my layouts!

[SMR CHRIS]

Funny how you recognise locations like that. I bought lunch at Marks and Spencers on the ground floor of a hospital across the Thames from the Houses of Parliament in Long back in 2008. A couple of years later I watched an episode of Dr Who and realised that was the place where The Doctor met Martha Jones and the whole kerfuffle with the Jadoon took place. Yes, I'll admit that I'm nerdy. Still looking for a suitably-sized 1950s police box to hide on my layouts!

Nothing wrong with Whovian's Martin, I know several, not sure how I know them but I do know them.

 

I found 1/43 police box on E. Bay from a Uk supplier complete with flashing light on top he also did barrels with flickering fire etc that was a few years ago now but can't find them now may have more luck if logged in to UK bay may be worth a look. Only thing Wong was the light flashes blue not white.