Rapido/Locomotion Models GNR Stirling Single

[Jol Wilkinson]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

[JonathonAG]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

Take my money, and a bit extra if to next look at either the Jones Good, Glen or Gordon Highlander

 

The latter two, I'll take both pre-grouping and BR liveries please.....

[daltonparva]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

It would to me if it was done in LMS livery.

[cctransuk]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

 

Any of the 1960s restored British Transport Museum locos, produced in the condition that they ran on special workings, would sell in good numbers.

 

We've had 3440, 1000, No.1, (and perhaps others that I've forgotten); let's have the rest !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Methuselah]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

 

I'm not a connoisseur, but no. Just because a machine ran later in preservation it represents little to nothing of relevance - compared to when it was genuinely in service.

[Colin_McLeod]

But there are people who remember them in preservation but don't remember them in service. As a lot of modellers run what they remember then "as preserved" would have a market. After all they would be correct for a 1960s model in almost any region.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Colin_McLeod

[Jol Wilkinson]

Re the Caledonian 123, it is in the Glasgow Museum, which is not part of the "English" Science Museum Group that includes the NRM. Presumably the Glasgow Museum would want a fee for scanning 123 and possibly a royalty on sales. That might make 123 less desirable than one of the NRMs own locos. Based on a conversation with a somewhat arrogant member of NRM/Locomotion team at the York show earlier this year, I would also suggest any new model will be based on something from the collection.

 

With regard to further production of the Stirling Single, it may well be that all the research, design and development costs have been amortised over the initial batch (I would be very surprised if it weren't). If so. further production would be at a lower unit cost, so that a smaller volume could be produced. Even a different livery requiring different lining application tools, would still be more economic. So more production would mean more profit for the NRM, even at lower volumes. Is it likely they would not take the opportunity?

[Invicta]

I believe the Caley 123 in re Glasgow Museum is in its post 1924 condition, when it was re-boilered by the LMS. The tender may also not be the original.when built. If so, reflecting that modern RTR models tend to be designed by scanning the prototype where possible, would a model based on the preserved 123 be acceptable to the connoisseurs?

 

I certainly wouldn't regard myself as a connoisseur, but a model of '123' in preserved condition (to say nothing of LMS-condition versions reflecting it's final years in service) would be perfectly fine with me. I'm not that au fait with the prototype, but how much difference is there between original and 1924 condition?

 

Any of the 1960s restored British Transport Museum locos, produced in the condition that they ran on special workings, would sell in good numbers.

 

We've had 3440, 1000, No.1, (and perhaps others that I've forgotten); let's have the rest !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

The museum locos used on specials in the 60's  were 'Truro', the Compound, the Jones Goods, '123' and 'Gordon Highlander' IIRC?

 

Hardwicke would be an obvious choice to add to that list- it's part of the NRM rather than Scottish collection, so would fit within Locomotion's remit, and saw the main line again in the late 70's- IIRC it ran double-headed with the Compound and 'Evening Star' amongst others: https://www.flickr.com/photos/54018467@N00/5338283675. The Midland Spinner might also be a pretty sound bet.

 

I'm not a connoisseur, but no. Just because a machine ran later in preservation it represents little to nothing of relevance - compared to when it was genuinely in service.

 

Although if reboilered in 1924, '123' would still be accurate for the condition in which it last ran in service- IIRC to 1935 or thereabouts, so there's a choice of LMS Crimson Lake and lined black to go with the preserved condition CR versions...

 

Re the Caledonian 123, it is in the Glasgow Museum, which is not part of the "English" Science Museum Group that includes the NRM. Presumably the Glasgow Museum would want a fee for scanning 123 and possibly a royalty on sales. That might make 123 less desirable than one of the NRMs own locos. Based on a conversation with a somewhat arrogant member of NRM/Locomotion team at the York show earlier this year, I would also suggest any new model will be based on something from the collection.

 

With regard to further production of the Stirling Single, it may well be that all the research, design and development costs have been amortised over the initial batch (I would be very surprised if it weren't). If so. further production would be at a lower unit cost, so that a smaller volume could be produced. Even a different livery requiring different lining application tools, would still be more economic. So more production would mean more profit for the NRM, even at lower volumes. Is it likely they would not take the opportunity?

 

True- Not being within the NRM's orbit might make '123' a less-likely choice than something like Hardwicke or the Midland single, unless Glasgow Museum have been looking at the NRM/Locomotion venture and seeing potential for a foray into the same marketplace themselves...

Edited July 22, 2018 by Invicta

[The Stationmaster]

Any of the 1960s restored British Transport Museum locos, produced in the condition that they ran on special workings, would sell in good numbers.

 

We've had 3440, 1000, No.1, (and perhaps others that I've forgotten); let's have the rest !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

But interestingly that doesn't seem to have worked in the case of 1000 which hung around for a long time on the Locomotion website.  And there does seem to be a limit on just how many versions of 3440 are saleable in considerable numbers. 

[tomparryharry]

The Cities are a quite short-lived, but widely made class of locomotive.

 

Perhaps a little look at a Dean Single might bear fruit. Lots of incarnations, numbers & liveries to consider. Not least 'Duke of Connaught, which took over the race after COT broke the first recorded 100+ run.

 

Regrettably, not a lot of use to me. I couldn't imagine a City doing a class 9 turn amongst a world of panniers.... Even a large prairie is touch & go down here. However, still a nice looking model.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[G-BOAF]

There seems to a lot of thread drift. I clicked expecting information on delivery etc of the Single, and instead am getting pages of info on speculation of commissions by the Scottish Government/wishlisting, and discussion of sales performance of other Shildon models...

Has anyone had their Single yet?

[No Decorum]

But interestingly that doesn't seem to have worked in the case of 1000 which hung around for a long time on the Locomotion website.  And there does seem to be a limit on just how many versions of 3440 are saleable in considerable numbers. 

 

I wonder how typical I am. I have a model of 1000 and, despite all its shortcomings, I wasn’t going to get rid of it or buy a duplicate, however wonderful. I ended up with a black version. Something similar happened with the Patriot. I had a Duke of Sutherland and didn’t want another; it was a long wait for Sir Frank Ree! It’s going to be a longer wait for The West Yorkshire Regiment (Bachmann’s cancelled Parallel Scot).

[chris p bacon]

There seems to a lot of thread drift. I clicked expecting information on delivery etc of the Single, and instead am getting pages of info on speculation of commissions by the Scottish Government/wishlisting, and discussion of sales performance of other Shildon models...

Has anyone had their Single yet?

 

 

No.

[Andy Hayter]

There seems to a lot of thread drift. I clicked expecting information on delivery etc of the Single, and instead am getting pages of info on speculation of commissions by the Scottish Government/wishlisting, and discussion of sales performance of other Shildon models...

Has anyone had their Single yet?

 

On 17th July a post from Locomotion said that customers would receive their orders in 10 - 14 days.

 

That says to me the earliest we should realistically expect a delivery is 27th July - not 22nd.

[adb968008]

There seems to a lot of thread drift. I clicked expecting information on delivery etc of the Single, and instead am getting pages of info on speculation of commissions by the Scottish Government/wishlisting, and discussion of sales performance of other Shildon models...

Has anyone had their Single yet?

The reason for the thread drift is the chicks are excitiedly tweeting awaiting being fed a GNR no1... when the wish list goes quiet, you know theybe been fed, and the pages will turn Green with GNR magic.

 

So slight tangent, I saw a picture a while ago, where GNR no1 had a tender full of white coal.

I’ve seen another of a Terrier with white coal.

 

Aside of white smoke ;-) why paint the coal ?

Edited July 22, 2018 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And verbally while paying the balance, I was told 'we expect to begin dispatching all the pre-orders at the end of July, so realisitically deliveries arriving with customers in early August'.

[RailwayRibaldry]

The reason for the thread drift is the chicks are excitiedly tweeting awaiting being fed a GNR no1... when the wish list goes quiet, you know theybe been fed, and the pages will turn Green with GNR magic.

 

So slight tangent, I saw a picture a while ago, where GNR no1 had a tender full of white coal.

I’ve seen another of a Terrier with white coal.

 

Aside of white smoke ;-) why paint the coal ?

I want to smoke what you're on buster

[teaky]

The reason for the thread drift is the chicks are excitiedly tweeting awaiting being fed a GNR no1... when the wish list goes quiet, you know theybe been fed, and the pages will turn Green with GNR magic.

 

So slight tangent, I saw a picture a while ago, where GNR no1 had a tender full of white coal.

I’ve seen another of a Terrier with white coal.

 

Aside of white smoke ;-) why paint the coal ?

Royal visit?

[Andy Hayter]

Or even royal train locomotive ready for duty

[MarkSG]

Whitewashing the top layer of coal in the tender was not uncommon for a VIP visit - not necessarily royal, but a royal visit would certainly have warranted it.

 

It's unlikely, though, that the Stirling single ever hauled a royal train, as the GNR didn't have a royal train for it to haul until after it had been displaced from front-line duties by the Ivatt Atlantics.

[robmcg]

There seems to a lot of thread drift. I clicked expecting information on delivery etc of the Single, and instead am getting pages of info on speculation of commissions by the Scottish Government/wishlisting, and discussion of sales performance of other Shildon models...

Has anyone had their Single yet?

 

I had an email from Locomotion a few days ago, around the 19th, saying that deliveries were imminent and should take about 1-2 weeks.  

 

I took from this that the models were past customs.

 

It's fair to talk of other NRM models, or other manufacturers and funding sources, the Rapido/NRM Stirling model being so good, it's natural to ponder or wish for more. 

[Guest spet0114]

It's fair to talk of other NRM models, or other manufacturers and funding sources, the Rapido/NRM Stirling model being so good, it's natural to ponder or wish for more. 

 

It's also fair to point out that Locomotion haven't comissioned anything that involves new tooling since....they comissioned GNR No. 1!

 

At the time they comissioned the Stirling Single, they had several such projects on the go including the C1 and APT-E. Since then, all (*) that we've had from Locomotion has been a stream of models that are exclusive livery versions of existing toolings. They managed to persuade Oxford to tweak their Dean Goods tooling, but that's about it. 

 

In short, if you want new models, even of national collection subjects, look to Rails, Kernow etc. Locomotion appear to have abandoned that market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(*) There was the abortive effort to bring the prototype HST to market.

Edited July 23, 2018 by spet0114

[Jol Wilkinson]

It's also fair to point out that Locomotion haven't comissioned anything that involves new tooling since....they comissioned GNR No. 1!

 

At the time they comissioned the Stirling Single, they had several such projects on the go including the C1 and APT-E. Since then, all (*) that we've had from Locomotion has been a stream of models that are exclusive livery versions of existing toolings. They managed to persuade Oxford to tweak their Dean Goods tooling, but that's about it. 

 

In short, if you want new models, even of national collection subjects, look to Rails, Kernow etc. Locomotion appear to have abandoned that market.

 

 

(*) There was the abortive effort to bring the prototype HST to market.

See my post # 1350.

 

I was given the distinct impression that the person I spoke with was considering what to commission next. Whether that was just braggadocio, only time will tell.

[JSpencer]

The HST prototype was postponed until various uncertainties were sorted out (like Brexit, Chineese wages etc...). I can well imagine the same list would put other ideas on hold too.

[G-BOAF]

Why did no one raise the issue during the run up to the brexit vote that it would impact the production of new models?????

 

I do wonder if the Single would have been produced post Brexit Referendum if it wasn't already a good way down the path. Obviously the success of this model indicates that any risk was well tanken. Maybe postponing the HST-P was premature. I'd have one (and TNT with what is almost an eventual dead cert. of 43003 in GWR Heritage 125 livery!)